INSURANCE Research...(long)

[Joel]

Okay, with the popularity of insurance questions (mostly from newbies), I decided to dive into a little insurance company research. I realized the concerns new people have about insuring such a pricey car as the NSX and at the same time, I also empathize with veteran members in here who deliver the same constant, repetitive answers. Mostly, they have been either:

a. "Do a search" (Forum's Nazi exist specifically for this very reason. It's his punchline ).
b. "It depends on your age, location, driving habits, etc."

The threads are replete with "oh, I'm with so and so and pay such and such"--which, basically given the second reason above, is practically worthless unless the member is of the same age, gender, live in the same zip code and use the car specifically on weekends--which is unlikely. Person A who lives in the east coast limits the use of the car to under 5k mile/year and alters his insurance plan during the winter months when the car is in storage while person B lives in the west coast where the weather is more permissive to the use of his NSX as a daily driver. That's why person A has a better quote than person B!

So, I did my research on who might be the best company to go with in general without the specifics of the who, what, where's. I came upon this site from J.D. Power and Associates. They basically broke it down for consumers regarding the major auto insurance carriers in the nation. As you can see, Amica Mutual came up on top and even received their prestigious award.

[size=1.5]"Among auto insurance providers, Amica Mutual ranks highest in overall auto insurance customer satisfaction for the fourth consecutive year. Amica achieves the top scores in each of the eight drivers of overall satisfaction (in order of importance): doing business with insurer; fulfilling commitments; ease of working with insurer; claims; billing; personnel; price; and problem resolution.

Automobile Club of Southern California, Erie Insurance Group and State Farm follow Amica in the rankings, respectively. Nationwide is the most improved provider in the study, moving up nine positions over 2002 to round out the top five. USAA, an insurance provider open only to the U.S. military community and their families and therefore not included in the rankings, achieved a higher satisfaction score than Amica."[/size]

You can read the rest of their press release located here.

I'm with Triple A myself, but that's beside the point. I wanted to find out how much money I could save by switching to Amica so I called them. I gave them my info and the same stats that I have with Triple A and it turns out that I would be saving $60/month if I made the switch. I know, DO THE MATH! So:

$60 x 10-month installment = $600 back in my pocket. Not to shabby. I think it's important to point out at this time that your results may vary.

So, with Amica Mutual receiving five stars on all categories set by J.D. Power, (Overall experience, Policy options, Pricing, Agent/Co. representative and Claims handling) there's only one logical step right? Not so fast. As with everything, nothing is perfect. I found some background information on Amica and found the court case of SUZANNE ROTH vs. AMICA MUTUAL INSURANCE. Now there's a few legal jargon in there that went over my head. Attorneys in this forum are more suited in explaining it, but the gist of it is this: Suzanne Roth sued Amica for not replacing her damaged car with OEM parts and that she only wanted factory-direct replacements. Amica said that it shouldn't matter and that aftermarket ones are just as good. The judge agreed and eventually overruled her demands. This was just recently in October 2003.

Is the attraction of saving money on insurance worth the potential hassle? Do you mind paying a premium for other carriers who will guarantee replacement of OEM parts in the event of an accident? Do you trust J.D. Powers? Well, these are the questions I have to contend with.

So there you have it. Basically what it comes down to is whether you're happy with your current insurance company or if not, try someone else based on your own personal priorities and preferences. I didn't post this thread to influence anyone's decision on whose carrier you should go with. I am not affiliated with either Amica or AAA. That is for YOU to decide. I'm merely sharing what I found when I was doing my homework.

Hope this helps.

 

[chriswtx]

Off the subject Question? Can you buy non-oem aluminum body panels for the NSX? Just thought I would ask...

 

[PHOEN$X]

Off the subject Question? Can you buy non-oem aluminum body panels for the NSX? Just thought I would ask...

I wonder too. How many companies even offer non-OEM stock parts for the NSX? Anyway, good info to know. Thanks Joel.

 

[KGP]

I'm with Triple A myself...

As am I. Today, I made a call to my agent to see if AAA covered HPDE events, and they do NOT. If your car is damaged on any kind of race track, whether a timed event or not, no coverage. Guess I need a new carrier. So, who has an insurance carrier who for sure covers HPDE events?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I wonder too. How many companies even offer non-OEM stock parts for the NSX? Anyway, good info to know. Thanks Joel.

I would expect that this is also vary too, on some parts aftermarket is always not as good as the OEM, ie: Body panels fitment, quality/longetivity of the aftermarket products; however some are as good.

Just to give a little twist, a lot of us the "car guy" "enthusiasts" especially (young kids) knows that OEM parts are expensive, say, in case of a front end damage, you could have replace a Carbon fiber hood, with the aftermarket bumper (not the OEM style aftermarket one) for the same price, yeap, Free Modification... Now, different insurance companies will have diff. policy on letting owners do that or not.

Also, some insurance company, though they charge you more on monthly premium, are pretty easy and fast on getting you the check for your damage. Some, though you benefit from saving pocket change every year, in case of the accident occurs, you will almost need to call them 24-7 and yelling them to get the money you needed.

 

[98GS400]

Insurance

I'm a insurance broker from Canada, we've had this problem too about cars being repaired with non-OEM parts. What the insurance company usually says is that the point of insurance is "to return the insured to the state which they were before the loss" which pretty much means that they'll fix your car just as it was before it was before a accident. This means that they can use non-OEM parts, if you cant tell the difference between oem and aftermarket parts, and if it makes no difference to the function of the car (such as a fender) usually in this case the insurance company can get away with it. If they replace lets say a honda engine (just a example) with a non-honda one (dont know how ti could happen, but just a example), then you can get the insurance company in some hot water because it changes teh function of your car, and the driveability.. etc.

Another thing to watch out for is if you have any mods done to your car, use the appraised value, i've had clients with cars that have mods worth in the thousands of dollars, and they use the book value of the car for insurance coverage, (even after advising them not to), and they get into some trouble, they only get the value of thier car as it stood with no mods. Its worth the few extra dollars...

If you have any more insurance questions feel free to PM me.

-Taran

 

[RSO 34]

Re: Re: INSURANCE Research...(long)

Today, I made a call to my agent to see if AAA covered HPDE events, and they do NOT. If your car is damaged on any kind of race track, whether a timed event or not, no coverage.

Your agent could be wrong. I spoke with my agent last year and he said it DEFINITELY was not covered. When I asked him to point to the specific exclusionary language in the policy he could not find it. Most agents couldn't quote you the policy language and automatically assume it is excluded. The only way to tell for sure is to read the actual policy and it should be fairly straight forward under "Exclusions." For now, Allstate still does cover it in NY.

 

[98GS400]

Track Insurance

From a insurance broker's view in Canada (might be different in the USA)
Most insurance companies dont give you coverage for any track events participated in. This is usually because they cant rate you as a risk while you are on a track (no speeding tickets, running red lights etc to base your rate on), also at a track you are not required to drive your automobile under any kind of laws that are bound by a legislating body (in other words, you dont have to signal, yeild to the person on your right etc..also no police to give you a ticket for violating a part of the highway safety act (most likely something else in USA)) There might be rules at a track , but they are not laws, a "track" is usually private property, and on private property such as parking lots which is a exception to no insurance (because you dont race in them hopefully, and most drivers of automobiles go to parking lots) the fault is usually split 50/50, so even if its not your fault at all, you have to pay for half the damage to the third party's car, and the third party pays for half the damage to your car(check your policy, not all companies do this) . Track insurance can be purchased seperatly, but your current insurance carrier might not like the idea of you purchasing insurance from another company or the idea of you racing your car on a track. I have yet to sell track insurance to a prospect who wants to take his X to the track in spring, I have called around, its kinda of tircky , but that's my job, i hope this will answer some more questions.

-Taran

 

[LJSB]

I know of no aftermarket sheet metal for the NSX. It does not exist in any of the catalogs that I have ever seen and have never had a insurance company write theses parts on a appraisal for a NSX. To me this is a non issue when buying a policy for a NSX.( I don't believe a/m sheet metal exists for this car) One aftermarket supplier I know of does have reconditioned bumper covers in thier catalog but don't actually have any to sell (no rebuildable cores are available to them.) There are, as many of you are aware, sources for reconditioned OEM wheels and Ins. Companies will write these.
Used parts aren't usually a issue either. Most of the major salvage yards used by appraisers usually don't have a car in inventory that they are willing to part out.
The bigger problem is the appraiser being unfamiliar with the car and not knowing what can and can't be repaired and formulating a repair strategy for the car.
I have NEVER had a Ins. appraiser be difficult with me when I negotiate a NSX or any high end sports car that I've written. Most are relieved when they know that the car is coming to me and are very compliant and grateful for my help.
Insurance poilcies, at least in NY are ACV (actual cash value) policies. That mean that they insure the value of the car and are not supposed to suggest repairs that would diminish the value of the car. They are however not obligated to improve the value of the vehicle either, ie., putting the vehicle in better condition than prior to the loss.
I am unaware of any company covering damage sustained while driving on a race track.

 

[Arshad]

Another thing to watch out for is if you have any mods done to your car, use the appraised value, i've had clients with cars that have mods worth in the thousands of dollars, and they use the book value of the car for insurance coverage, (even after advising them not to), and they get into some trouble, they only get the value of thier car as it stood with no mods. Its worth the few extra dollars...


Hmm, I'm with State Farm up here in Canada and after some mods that significantly altered the value of my car, I called them up to see if I needed additional coverage. Basically they told me that nothing changes and that I should simply hold onto all receipts in case of an accident or theft. Are they the exception in handling mods in this manner?

 

[98GS400]

Hmm, I'm with State Farm up here in Canada and after some mods that significantly altered the value of my car, I called them up to see if I needed additional coverage. Basically they told me that nothing changes and that I should simply hold onto all receipts in case of an accident or theft. Are they the exception in handling mods in this manner?

State farm eh? I can look up their operations, but hold on to your receipts?? That's just going to be a hassle, in the event of a loss, they are going to ask you for your paper work (receipts.. etc), wouldn't it be easier to have one piece of paper that says how much your car is worth, and when/should a loss occur, the insurance company knows exactly how much its worth, no finding the value of mods, and then adding it to the car, then taking the depreciation of the vehicle into account... for example

(today)
$2000 car
+
$4000 supercharger
=
$X in the event of a loss (usually within 1 year or some set term by your insurance company, you'll get the amount of X (+/- some minor fees and other stuff)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
now when you do it another way
$2000 car (now)
+
$4000 supercharger (6 months)
=
$Y (you no longer have 1 document that says exactly how much your car is worth) in the event of a loss you wont get the amount $Y you now have to take into consideration , the car is now 6 months older, then the supercharger was added, (to the 6month older car) the supercharger will/won't retain its original value (what if its not made anymore?) and you usually have to prove that such modifications were made to your vehicle (not your friends NSX), which usually gets hard,complex ( to figure out the exact value of the vehicle) and takes some time. This is harder to explain in a post then i figured.... In most cases you will end up in a loss, especially if the mods your mods "significantly" change your car's value. Its different with every company, so i suggest you have a longer talk with your agent or insurance broker.

What it all comes down to, is spending the money for a appraisal now, most of the times it higher then the blue book value, if u have a rare color, or if the car is in really really good shape, and saving the time and a headache later down the road. If the company you are with doesn't do vehicles using appraised values, then it might be time to change companies I hope i didnt leave anything out, (damn, that got long.. fast)

-Taran

 

[Arshad]

Thanks for the advice. I'll have another talk with my agent and explain my concerns about possible reimbursement of the relatively expensive aftermarket items in case of a loss. In the past, I've had no problems when my other car was in a big accident and then later broken into twice and when another vehicle was written off just a couple of months ago. Let's hope they continue the fair treatment going forward.

 

[ChrisK]

Hmm, I'm with State Farm up here in Canada and after some mods that significantly altered the value of my car, I called them up to see if I needed additional coverage. Basically they told me that nothing changes and that I should simply hold onto all receipts in case of an accident or theft. Are they the exception in handling mods in this manner?

I'm with State Farm as well and that is something similar to what I was told. When I had a minor fender bender, the State Farm adjuster saw some scuff marks on my 17" rims that were on the accident side. He told me if I can get the receipt for the rims he would include the cost of a new rim. My JDM headlights were also damanged and since they had no idea how to get them or how much they were worth he told me to buy them myself and come back with a receipt or any proof of purchase and he would cut me another check for its value.

 

[KGP]

Re: Re: Re: INSURANCE Research...(long)

Your agent could be wrong. ... For now, Allstate still does cover it in NY.

Possibly, but I suspect not. I will check my policy closely this week. Ayway, thanks for chiming in with Alstate. I guess what I ultimately want is agreed on value coverage that allows HPDE's. Gotsta find it.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I pretty much understand keeping the sales reciept on the car modification parts routine.

What I don't know is that, what if my car was bought with aftermarket parts in it?? ie... my car already had Comptech Header and Exhaust, in case of an rear ended acccident... would the insurance grant for the repair?? (I of course don't have the original receipt of the cost / install of the exhaust n header)

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Have you guys seen the price for stock parts on the NSX? IMHO, it is not worth to buy the 'mods' insurance. Most of the stock parts cost more than the mods. Other than Turbo kit or SC.

 

[GQ NSX]

This is a very interesting post. Would one be inclined to think that an older car (such as say a 95 NSX) would have lower insurance than a similarly priced new car (2000+ Vette)? Although many factors are taken into consideration, is it typical for quotes to be lower on older cars?

ravi

 

[sjs]

Have you guys seen the price for stock parts on the NSX? IMHO, it is not worth to buy the 'mods' insurance. Most of the stock parts cost more than the mods. Other than Turbo kit or SC.

I guess that's fine for repairs, but not when the car is totaled or stolen, which I think is the main issue here.

State Farm told me the same thing about receipts for mods. As for getting an appraised value instead, I don't see that addressing the issue. If after the appraisal you add an SC, or suspension, or even wheels, your appraisal is out of date so you better have proof of further enhancements. But what's the big deal about keeping receipts any way?

My big concern is dealing with some other insurance company when someone else destroys my car.

 

[98GS400]

More insurance questions... Answered

In Alberta, your basic 3rd party coverage (mandatory) is determined by your driving habits, age, marital status, gender.. etc. But your collision and comprehensive coverage is determined by the vehicle itself, such as the cost of it new, availability, cost to repair, theft history of the model.. etc. In some provinces in Canada, your age/gender/marital status are not factors used to determine your premium, but your driving record, and your vehicle. But sometimes the coll/comp. premium is not always fair.. i realized this when i went to rate myself.. the rating number is a reference number, which is often multiplied by a base premium to determine a final coll/comp premium.

Lexus GS400/GS430

1998 - 33
1999 - 31
2000 - 33
2001 - 35

Usually the older models are a lower rating, but my 1998 Lexus has a rating of 33 for collision, and so does a 2000 Lexus GS4, i thought it was a typo, but later discovered that it wasn't after calling the insurance company. Go Figure ... But yes, usually older models of the same cars do have lower insurance rates, the difference is not too great between cars such as NSX, and other high end cars.. but low end stuff like the average domestic sedans, the insurance is usually (95%) lower as the model year of the vehicle gets older.

Attatched is a pic of my car (hope its not too far off topic)

-Taran