In the market with a couple of quick questions...

[rsutton1223]

New member that is in the market with a couple of quick questions to help with the buying process. I have lurked/read for awhile (including the FAQs) so now I am ready to join in the conversation. The NSX (gen 1 with pop up lights) has been a bucket list car for both my wife and myself for as long as we can remember. Now that I have gotten rid of a couple of project cars (a 500whp STI and a 1300whp CTS-V) we are looking at getting a NSX before we start building her dream...a 427 Cobra. While the two previous builds that were complete (custom interiors, SQ audio systems, paint, custom wheels, power, etc)...she still daily drives an e92 M3 that we have 1/2 mile raced together...so we are fully aware of what we are getting into with an older car or modified cars.

So onto the actual question...

The spec list we want is looking to be pretty hard to find so it really comes down to finding a quality car down to year. I have already read up on the trans issues on the 91/92's according to VIN and the other issues.

For this car...I really want to keep the OEM+ look I have done with previous builds but stay away from built motors...boost...and the other issues that come with that as this car will never leave our family and is actually going to start the collection that we ultimately want to build. As much as I have loved the previous builds...the racing we did could have paid for half the cars we want already.

How big of a difference is the 5psd/3.0 vs the 6spd/3.2 given the fact I am not going to boost it?

 

[Old Guy]

I have a 2000 6 spd and very limited experience with the 5 spd. Based upon the exceedingly limited experience with the 5 speed, it was my impression that when cold, the 5 speed shifts smoother. When cold, my 6 speed displays what I would characterize as slow synchros between 1-2 and 2-3. Try to shift too fast and it will block or grind. Once the transmission gets stinky hot ( or as hot as it can ever get in Saskatchewan) the 6 speed shifts just fine as did the 5 speed (in my limited exposure). I talked to an Acura NSX tech and a couple of other people and they all characterized the 6 spd as being 'notchy' when cold. If you are doing much highway cruising the 6 spd is preferable because of the lower engine speed.

Keep in mind that most later cars will have the mungo dual mass flywheel / clutch as opposed to the dual plate clutch on the early cars. They feel different. I did not drive the dual plate clutch enough to form an opinion on a preference. Also keep in mind that if and when clutch replacement time comes around, if you stay OEM the dual mass flywheel and clutch comes as a team making replacement $$$$. Some people end up retrofitting a more conventional clutch arrangement because of the cost.

The NSX has a bit of a reputation for driveline snatch / lurch. I think the dual mass flywheel was supposed to help with that. You would need to drive both to determine whether you think there is a material difference.

I didn't drive the 3.0 enough to make a determination as to whether the 3.0 versus 3.2 made a material difference at legal driving speeds.

Other changes to consider during the production run
- 2000 and later ABS system is much better and suffers from fewer maintenance issues that the early ABS system
- Power steering became standard on MT cars in 1996 or 1998 (???). Purists eschew the power assist. I like it just fine thank-you and would not want an NSX without EPS. You need to try both to form an opinion.
- Targa top. I have a targa. It was a novelty and I took the top off a lot when I first had the car. In the last two years I have not had the top off except to clean and lube the weather stripping. The targa definitely flexes and if you ever damage the weather stripping its $$$$$. In retrospect, if I could have found a 2000 coupe I would have taken it over the targa; however, with only 1 or 2 coupes produced in 2000 the chances of stumbling across a late model coupe on the market are pretty low.
- If you do your own maintenance you may attach some value to the extended error reporting / monitoring that comes with the implementation of OBDII in the late 1995 cars.
- there are some other production run changes such as changes to the LSD. The impact of those changes are probably less significant.

 

[robbiedawg]

Old Guy makes some good points above. As an owner of a 3.0/5-speed who has driven a 3.2/ 6-speed, I can give you the benefit of that experience.
I prefer the 5-speed, because I agree that it shifts more smoothly. One note on the '95 5-speed- earlier 5-speeds were thought by some to have too big of a ratio gap when shifting from 1-2, allowing the engine to drop out of vtec range on the upshift. In '95 the 2nd gear ratio was lowered to address this, so the '95-'96 5 speed differs from the '91-'94, 2nd not being so long in the '95-'96 5-speed.
https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Changes_by_Year#Changes_for_1995
The earlier dual-plate clutch is also generally thought to offer quicker throttle response, which is enjoyable. This is somewhat offset by the fact that the 3.2 is a bit faster, having 20 more hp. I did not feel the 3.2 was noticeably faster, even when my car was bone stock. In the case of my car, I've added high-flow cats, had the injectors cleaned and calibrated, and taken off about 60 lb. with the lighter cats, upgraded year 2000 ABS system,Volk wheels, and a few other things. I suspect that with those changes, my 3.0 car is virtually as fast as a 3.2 liter NSX.
I also like the EPS, it's a well-done system, still better than most new sports cars with it.
I love the targa roof. I agree that it adds some flex, but it's known to be one of the most rigid open-roofed cars. I've taken off most of the 95 or so pounds that the targa adds, and on a nice day,it's just magic. When I got the car, I said this is my dream car, and in the dream the roof is open to the sky.

 

[natcc99]

The 5spd has a longer 2nd gear. From what I read, folks have to drop to 1st when they come to a slow corner instead of being able to stay in 2nd and still have power.
With that said, some upgrade to JDM 5pd gearing to resolve that issue. Some links below for your reference.

https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Gears
http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/1991-acura-nsx-review-japanese-legend-defies-time

As Old Guy mentioned in his list, there are other changes in the later models that might fit your needs. Use the following link as reference. Look at the list for 1997 for changes between 3.0 vs 3.2 models.
https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Changes_by_Year

Good luck with your car hunt.

 

[Jinks]

Targa tops are much heavier. Early model cars have a raw and visceral driving experience. Later cars have more usability in terms of abs, EPS, etc. But everything read here is spot on. Older cars always seem to be modified as well or has some BS story associated with them. So for a collector car, I’d go for a later model as there were far, far less made.

 

[Old Guy]

One more consideration around the targa top. Jinks states "The Targa tops are much heavier". That statement is correct in that the NSX targa body received body reenforcements to minimize the flex associated with cutting a big hole in the roof - about 20 kg worth according to the service manual. However, in addition to the weight in the body, the targa roof panel itself is no feather weight and it is not exactly tiny. The weight and size can make removal, stowing and re installation awkward (and hard on the small of the back) for a single person. You definitely want to be careful with removal because if you drop the panel you will definitely do damage - to the panel and whatever it lands on. If the targa is a deciding factor for you, go through the R&R drill on the top before you buy the car.

The reality is if you decide that you want an na2 because of the other factors, then you will likely end up with a targa top just because of availability in which case the discussion may be largely academic. If you do end up with a targa, inspect the front and back body mounted gaskets carefully and do a wind noise check. If you had to replace both the front and rear body gaskets I think you are in to around $2,700.00 (list) just for the two gaskets alone and gasket replacement requires several pages in the service manual so I expect replacement at a dealership would also require $$$$ for the labor component. The cost of a cam belt / engine major service interval is probably trivial in comparison.

 

[neuronbob]

[MENTION=34554]rsutton1223[/MENTION] ! WELCOME! I know you from ctsvowners.com and I got to see your former V, which now lives here in the Cleveland area.

You have been graced with replies from very experienced members. When looking for my NSX starting three years ago (and now an owner for over two), I looked for a pop-up with 6MT and 3.2 C32B, i.e. 97-01. If you are NOT boosting, which you state above, the slightly more torque of the “newer” engine should suit you fine. Works for me, and if I miss real power, I’ve still got my blue V wagon to scratch that itch.

My impression from also having driven a 3.0/5MT is “wow, that’s a loooong second gear!” You’d do fine with either one, and you’ll save money buying an older one.

Knowing you, you’ll want to doll up the interior somewhat and I’m already excited knowing what you did to your V. Luckily, there are many here who’ve done the same and will guide you appropriately. Parts to do this (leather, suede, or carbon fiber) are easily available and other than seat replacement, this car’s interior is simple to DIY.

In any case, I’m rambling now. Again, welcome and scratch that NSX itch by all means.

 

[docjohn]

you can just about reach 80 mph in the 5 speed 2nd gear..

 

[rsutton1223]

Thank you for the responses. It helps a lot to get first hand experiences. I haven’t been this excited about getting a car in awhile. For a car that really didn’t change all that much the little differences get to be more of a bigger deal. It took me awhile to find an 09+ manual V so I am thinking finding my white on black NSX will probably take awhile too but we’re ready for that.

 

[rsutton1223]

[MENTION=34554]rsutton1223[/MENTION] ! WELCOME! I know you from ctsvowners.com and I got to see your former V, which now lives here in the Cleveland area.

You have been graced with replies from very experienced members. When looking for my NSX starting three years ago (and now an owner for over two), I looked for a pop-up with 6MT and 3.2 C32B, i.e. 97-01. If you are NOT boosting, which you state above, the slightly more torque of the “newer” engine should suit you fine. Works for me, and if I miss real power, I’ve still got my blue V wagon to scratch that itch.

My impression from also having driven a 3.0/5MT is “wow, that’s a loooong second gear!” You’d do fine with either one, and you’ll save money buying an older one.

Knowing you, you’ll want to doll up the interior somewhat and I’m already excited knowing what you did to your V. Luckily, there are many here who’ve done the same and will guide you appropriately. Parts to do this (leather, suede, or carbon fiber) are easily available and other than seat replacement, this car’s interior is simple to DIY.

In any case, I’m rambling now. Again, welcome and scratch that NSX itch by all means.

I knew I would find a friendly face over here! I still miss the V sometimes. At least it went to a great home.

 

[neuronbob]

Prepare to pay dearly for a white NSX. It's not like finding a "dima a dozen" white CTS-V. White NSXs fetch a significant premium.

 

[rsutton1223]

Prepare to pay dearly for a white NSX. It's not like finding a "dima a dozen" white CTS-V. White NSXs fetch a significant premium.

I know. My wife is sold on the white. I am too honestly as much as I love black.

I have quoted your last response twice and it hasn’t been approved.

 

[natcc99]

Prepare to pay dearly for a white NSX. It's not like finding a "dima a dozen" white CTS-V. White NSXs fetch a significant premium.

I can vouch for neuronbob's statement. When I was shopping, I found a White NA1. Seller was very nice and a true enthusiast. After the test drive (which was fantastic), we quickly talked about numbers and discovered that we were not on the same page. He wanted a premium for the white paint. For me, paint color choice was not high on my priority list. In summary, be warn that your dream white NSX might cost a few extra dollars.

See link below for colors based on product numbers. It gives you an idea on how rare certain colors are.
https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Production_Numbers
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...esirable-quot-colors-of-NSX-without-regard-to

Take a look at this build from 8R6. He wrapped his black car in white. It is an option for you if your heart is set on white and cannot find one.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...ight-be-the-least-desired-but-i-love-mine-LOL

Without going too far off-topic, do you mind posting a link about your CTS-V? I'm curious about your build.

 

[natcc99]

Not sure if you have seen this link. I suggest checking it out so you can get an idea on how the market is trending.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/199875-Gen1-NSX-Current-Market-Analysis

 

[rsutton1223]

I can vouch for neuronbob's statement. When I was shopping, I found a White NA1. Seller was very nice and a true enthusiast. After the test drive (which was fantastic), we quickly talked about numbers and discovered that we were not on the same page. He wanted a premium for the white paint. For me, paint color choice was not high on my priority list. In summary, be warn that your dream white NSX might cost a few extra dollars.

See link below for colors based on product numbers. It gives you an idea on how rare certain colors are.
https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Production_Numbers
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...esirable-quot-colors-of-NSX-without-regard-to

Take a look at this build from 8R6. He wrapped his black car in white. It is an option for you if your heart is set on white and cannot find one.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...ight-be-the-least-desired-but-i-love-mine-LOL

Without going too far off-topic, do you mind posting a link about your CTS-V? I'm curious about your build.

Thanks for all of that data and the sales trend. A friend of mine pointed me to this forum recently due to the production number breakdown.

Here is the V. I am meticulous about documenting my cars/builds because I love to be able to go back and look at everything.

http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/148...-black-raven-6mt-sedan-quest-fastest-6mt.html

 

[rsutton1223]

Without going too far off-topic, do you mind posting a link about your CTS-V? I'm curious about your build.

Thanks for all of that data and the sales trend. A friend of mine pointed me to this forum recently due to the production number breakdown.

Here is the V. I am meticulous about documenting my cars/builds because I love to be able to go back and look at everything.

http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/148...-black-raven-6mt-sedan-quest-fastest-6mt.html

 

[rsutton1223]

That was the main reason I was asking about the motor/trans combo too. The lower years really opens up buying options so I guess I'll look for the unicorn first and then take it from there.

 

[rsutton1223]

I'm geeking out on this so much that I actually did Photoshop renders of what I would want the car to look like whether it was black or white with the wheels and caliper combos I want.

White on Advan GT's in gloss black with red calipers

Black on TE37's in gunmetal with blue calipers

 

[neuronbob]

Either of those looks delicious. Enjoy the hunt!

 

[rsutton1223]

Either of those looks delicious. Enjoy the hunt!

Thanks! I am really looking forward to it. I am definitely going to have to do some interior work though. It reminds me too much of a '91 Legend coupe I had back in the day.

 

[jazzmann]

Thanks! I am really looking forward to it. I am definitely going to have to do some interior work though. It reminds me too much of a '91 Legend coupe I had back in the day.

Hah! My first new car, and the one that put me on the Honda bandwagon, was an '87 Legend coupe. I see a lot of similarities in the interior bits between that and my '91 NSX.

Anyway, the point of my post - 3.0/5spd vs. 3.2/6spd - one thing to consider if you get a 5spd is retrofitting it with the JDM "short gears". They may have been mentioned above, I haven't read all the posts, but my car has them and [MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION], the previous owner, said they transformed the car. The 3 middle gears are closer together, much better for keeping the RPMs in the sweet spot for spirited/track driving.

I don't have any experience with the USDM 5spd so I can't offer a direct comparison, but I can say I love the way the engine and JDM gears work together. All the shift points, up or down, feel very natural, and even though 2nd gear is pretty tall, it's still fine for normal driving - I never have to use 1st for anything except getting rolling from a stop.

 

[rsutton1223]

Hah! My first new car, and the one that put me on the Honda bandwagon, was an '87 Legend coupe. I see a lot of similarities in the interior bits between that and my '91 NSX.

Anyway, the point of my post - 3.0/5spd vs. 3.2/6spd - one thing to consider if you get a 5spd is retrofitting it with the JDM "short gears". They may have been mentioned above, I haven't read all the posts, but my car has them and @Honcho, the previous owner, said they transformed the car. The 3 middle gears are closer together, much better for keeping the RPMs in the sweet spot for spirited/track driving.

I don't have any experience with the USDM 5spd so I can't offer a direct comparison, but I can say I love the way the engine and JDM gears work together. All the shift points, up or down, feel very natural, and even though 2nd gear is pretty tall, it's still fine for normal driving - I never have to use 1st for anything except getting rolling from a stop.

That would be a good option to quicken the 5 speed up a bit. I know if you look at my last builds this will sound like complete bs but I am really trying to stay away from messing with the motor or trans this time around.

 

[natcc99]

http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/148...-black-raven-6mt-sedan-quest-fastest-6mt.html

As much as I have loved the previous builds...the racing we did could have paid for half the cars we want already.

Firstly, impressive build on the CTS-V. I grew up with a Cadillac, but the one that my father drove is very different from yours. Thanks for sharing. Great pictures in your link.

There has been a lot of discussion about 3.0 vs 3.2, 5spd vs 6 spd, and also the JDM gear ratio swap. One thing to consider is restoration. Whether you find a low or high mileage car, you are going to find yourself fixing a lot of same issues. As Old Guy mentioned, weather striping/gaskets/seals. If you find that rare white one that you are hunting for, be cautious of the 20+ year old car problems that you will have to repair. You sound like a true gear head, so this is no surprise to you.

Be sure to make a list of common issues and check them off when you are inspecting the car. Here is an older article, but the content is still relavant.
http://www.superstreetonline.com/features/1507-acura-nsx-buyers-guide/

General info from nsxprime wiki, including a checklist.
https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Category:Purchasing_an_NSX
https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Used_NSX_List

 

[rsutton1223]

Anyway, the point of my post - 3.0/5spd vs. 3.2/6spd - one thing to consider if you get a 5spd is retrofitting it with the JDM "short gears".

That is an option to look into. I know this seems absurd considering my last car builds but I really am trying hard not to touch the motor/trans in this one.

 

[rsutton1223]

Firstly, impressive build on the CTS-V. I grew up with a Cadillac, but the one that my father drove is very different from yours. Thanks for sharing. Great pictures in your link.

Thanks. That car was a crazy amount of fun...especially since it was a 6 speed. I have driven up in GT-Rs and other cars and nothing got more attention than my V rocking from the cam with a baby seat in the back and nitrous in the trunk. 1,300whp RWD manual has it's own set of fun as well...

I'm not too worried about the older car issues. Parts are harder to find but the fixes are easy. It will never be a daily so I can take my time with it. It is really about finding the right car to start with so I am trying to do as much research as possible. My wife and I have decided that we don't want race cars anymore...we want cars that we want to keep...so this will be a long haul car. I want to get the right starting point.