I saw the new Star Wars Movie last night

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The movie is called "Attack of the Clones". I thought it was really good. The first prequel was not very good in my opinion. It was too much of a kids movie. I will not give anything away but there were a lot more battles in this one and more story.

Anyway, after I was coming out of the movie, there was a red early model NSX with chromed stock rims. I am wondering if this is anyones car here. I was at the Cinemark off of LBJ and Webbs Chappel(in Dallas).

Anyone else who has seen the movie and wants to comment on it, please post up here.
 
Loved the movie! (I am a biased SW fan however). If you can ignore about 10-15 minutes of horrific dialogue, then this movie would have been perfect.

BTW - Yoda is the man!

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'96 Black/Tan NSX-T
 
STAR WARS RETURNS today with its fifth installment, "Attack of the Clones." There will be talk of the Force and the Dark Side and the epic morality of George Lucas's series. But the truth is that from the beginning, Lucas confused the good guys with the bad. The deep lesson of Star Wars is that the Empire is good.

It's a difficult leap to make--embracing Darth Vader and the Emperor over the plucky and attractive Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia--but a careful examination of the facts, sorted apart from Lucas's off-the-shelf moral cues, makes a quite convincing case.

First, an aside: For the sake of this discussion, I've considered only the history gleaned from the actual Star Wars films, not the Expanded Universe. If you know what the Expanded Universe is and want to argue that no discussion of Star Wars can be complete without considering material outside the canon, that's fine. However, it's always been my view that the comic books and novels largely serve to clean up Lucas's narrative and philosophical messes. Therefore, discussions of intrinsic intent must necessarily revolve around the movies alone. You may disagree, but please don't e-mail me about it.

If you don't know what the Expanded Universe is, well, uh, neither do I.

I. The Problems with the Galactic Republic
At the beginning of the Star Wars saga, the known universe is governed by the Galactic Republic. The Republic is controlled by a Senate, which is, in turn, run by an elected chancellor who's in charge of procedure, but has little real power.

Scores of thousands of planets are represented in the Galactic Senate, and as we first encounter it, it is sclerotic and ineffectual. The Republic has grown over many millennia to the point where there are so many factions and disparate interests, that it is simply too big to be governable. Even the Republic's staunchest supporters recognize this failing: In "The Phantom Menace," Queen Amidala admits, "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." In "Attack of the Clones," young Anakin Skywalker observes that it simply "doesn't work."

The Senate moves so slowly that it is powerless to stop aggression between member states. In "The Phantom Menace" a supra-planetary alliance, the Trade Federation (think of it as OPEC to the Galactic Republic's United Nations), invades a planet and all the Senate can agree to do is call for an investigation.

Like the United Nations, the Republic has no armed forces of its own, but instead relies on a group of warriors, the Jedi knights, to "keep the peace." The Jedi, while autonomous, often work in tandem with the Senate, trying to smooth over quarrels and avoid conflicts. But the Jedi number only in the thousands--they cannot protect everyone.
What's more, it's not clear that they should be "protecting" anyone. The Jedi are Lucas's great heroes, full of Zen wisdom and righteous power. They encourage people to "use the Force"--the mystical energy which is the source of their power--but the truth, revealed in "The Phantom Menace," is that the Force isn't available to the rabble. The Force comes from midi-chlorians, tiny symbiotic organisms in people's blood, like mitochondria. The Force, it turns out, is an inherited, genetic trait. If you don't have the blood, you don't get the Force. Which makes the Jedi not a democratic militia, but a royalist Swiss guard.

And an arrogant royalist Swiss guard, at that. With one or two notable exceptions, the Jedi we meet in Star Wars are full of themselves. They ignore the counsel of others (often with terrible consequences), and seem honestly to believe that they are at the center of the universe. When the chief Jedi record-keeper is asked in "Attack of the Clones" about a planet she has never heard of, she replies that if it's not in the Jedi archives, it doesn't exist. (The planet in question does exist, again, with terrible consequences.)

In "Attack of the Clones," a mysterious figure, Count Dooku, leads a separatist movement of planets that want to secede from the Republic. Dooku promises these confederates smaller government, unlimited free trade, and an "absolute commitment to capitalism." Dooku's motives are suspect--it's not clear whether or not he believes in these causes. However, there's no reason to doubt the motives of the other separatists--they seem genuinely to want to make a fresh start with a government that isn't bloated and dysfunctional.

The Republic, of course, is eager to quash these separatists, but they never make a compelling case--or any case, for that matter--as to why, if they are such a freedom-loving regime, these planets should not be allowed to check out of the Republic and take control of their own destinies.

II. The Empire
We do not yet know the exact how's and why's, but we do know this: At some point between the end of Episode II and the beginning of Episode IV, the Republic is replaced by an Empire. The first hint comes in "Attack of the Clones," when the Senate's Chancellor Palpatine is granted emergency powers to deal with the separatists. It spoils very little to tell you that Palpatine eventually becomes the Emperor. For a time, he keeps the Senate in place, functioning as a rubber-stamp, much like the Roman imperial senate, but a few minutes into Episode IV, we are informed that the he has dissolved the Senate, and that "the last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

Lucas wants the Empire to stand for evil, so he tells us that the Emperor and Darth Vader have gone over to the Dark Side and dresses them in black.

But look closer. When Palpatine is still a senator, he says, "The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." At one point he laments that "the bureaucrats are in charge now."
Palpatine believes that the political order must be manipulated to produce peace and stability. When he mutters, "There is no civility, there is only politics," we see that at heart, he's an esoteric Straussian.
Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen.

Also, unlike the divine-right Jedi, the Empire is a meritocracy. The Empire runs academies throughout the galaxy (Han Solo begins his career at an Imperial academy), and those who show promise are promoted, often rapidly. In "The Empire Strikes Back" Captain Piett is quickly promoted to admiral when his predecessor "falls down on the job."

And while it's a small point, the Empire's manners and decorum speak well of it. When Darth Vader is forced to employ bounty hunters to track down Han Solo, he refuses to address them by name. Even Boba Fett, the greatest of all trackers, is referred to icily as "bounty hunter." And yet Fett understands the protocol. When he captures Solo, he calls him "Captain Solo." (Whether this is in deference to Han's former rank in the Imperial starfleet, or simply because Han owns and pilots his own ship, we don't know. I suspect it's the former.)

But the most compelling evidence that the Empire isn't evil comes in "The Empire Strikes Back" when Darth Vader is battling Luke Skywalker. After an exhausting fight, Vader is poised to finish Luke off, but he stays his hand. He tries to convert Luke to the Dark Side with this simple plea: "There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you. . . . Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." It is here we find the real controlling impulse for the Dark Side and the Empire. The Empire doesn't want slaves or destruction or "evil." It wants order.

None of which is to say that the Empire isn't sometimes brutal. In Episode IV, Imperial stormtroopers kill Luke's aunt and uncle and Grand Moff Tarkin orders the destruction of an entire planet, Alderaan. But viewed in context, these acts are less brutal than they initially appear. Poor Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen reach a grisly end, but only after they aid the rebellion by hiding Luke and harboring two fugitive droids. They aren't given due process, but they are traitors.

The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.
But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth. In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.

Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.

Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction.

III. After the Rebellion
As we all know from the final Star Wars installment, "Return of the Jedi," the rebellion is eventually successful. The Emperor is assassinated, Darth Vader abdicates his post and dies, the central governing apparatus of the Empire is destroyed in a spectacular space battle, and the rebels rejoice with their small, annoying Ewok friends. But what happens next?

(There is a raft of literature on this point, but, as I said at the beginning, I'm going to ignore it because it doesn't speak to Lucas's original intent.)

In Episode IV, after Grand Moff Tarkin announces that the Imperial Senate has been abolished, he's asked how the Emperor can possibly hope to keep control of the galaxy. "The regional governors now have direct control over territories," he says. "Fear will keep the local systems in line."

So under Imperial rule, a large group of regional potentates, each with access to a sizable army and star destroyers, runs local affairs. These governors owe their fealty to the Emperor. And once the Emperor is dead, the galaxy will be plunged into chaos.
In all of the time we spend observing the Rebel Alliance, we never hear of their governing strategy or their plans for a post-Imperial universe. All we see are plots and fighting. Their victory over the Empire doesn't liberate the galaxy--it turns the galaxy into Somalia writ large: dominated by local warlords who are answerable to no one.
Which makes the rebels--Lucas's heroes--an unimpressive crew of anarchic royals who wreck the galaxy so that Princess Leia can have her tiara back.

I'll take the Empire.
 
I haven't seen it yet. Is there an NSX in it?
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'91 Black/Black
 
Originally posted by Michigan NSX:
I haven't seen it yet. Is there an NSX in it?
biggrin.gif


Hate to spoil it for ya, but yes. Yoda's pimpin in a Black NSX that can fly.


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2001 QuickSilver Corvette Coupe - Not Stock

2002 Black Acura 3.2 TL/S
 
I just saw it...

Interesting to notice the two droids seem inspired by aging rockstar (and rehab poster boy) Ozzie Osbourne
- C3P0 walks like him (shuffling gait)
- R2D2 talks like him (bleepity-bleep)

Cool movie
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[This message has been edited by cojones (edited 22 May 2002).]
 
I was so relieved that Attack of the Clones was thoroughly entertaining from beginning to end. My initial impression was that I liked it more than Return of the Jedi (which was my least favorite of the classic Trilogy)...and thought it was vastly superior to Episode 1. But I really need to see it again before I make my final judgment.

I *strongly* recommend seeing Episode 2 projected digitally...my fears that high-def wouldn't look as good as film were eased tremendously by the beauty of the images on screen. The effects work is top notch...surely benefitting from the full digital treatment of both actors and CG effects.

But the way Lucas executed the love story in AOTC is wretched...painful...like nails on a chalkboard. In fact, I squirmed in my seat in much the same way as I did whenever Jar Jar was on screen in Episode 1. Thankfully, the love story did not steal many minutes away from the amazing action sequences (nor did Jar Jar for that matter).

I should also add that Episodes 4-6 benefitted from much better chemsitry between the principal characters.

I'll bet Anakin was looking for an NSX before settling on that yellow speeder...
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--akira3D
'00 Acura NSX-T (red/black), '97 Honda Civic HX (black), '01 Lexus IS300 (black/black)
"Reality is better than the dream..."

akira3d.com/nsx

[This message has been edited by akira3d (edited 21 May 2002).]
 
May I add that this movie was all about Yoda! It was worth seeing for his moment of glory alone. He could take Luke and Vader with one arm while drinking tea in the other and not spilling a drop. Yoda is the ma... err.. muppet. In episodeIV, makes you wonder why he didn't just fly up to the Death Star and take out the whole friggin base himself.

Now that I could see as Episode VII- Return of the Master. Yoda comes back to clean house.
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In the theater, no less than three glow-in-the-dark light sabers went up in the air when he made his entrance. It was hilarious.

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 21 May 2002).]
 
I found EP2 to be just an average movie, but a good Star Wars movie. As a two (and a half) hour movie, it was just okay. Acting was so-so. Dialogue and script was average. Effects were amazing.

As a Star Wars movie, it was good. It prompted me to question what may happen in the next movie, something Phantom never did. If anything, it just really reinforces how bad EP1 was as a Star Wars movie. I'd lump it in after Star Wars, Empire, and before Jedi.

When he captures Solo, he calls him "Captain Solo." (Whether this is in deference to Han's former rank in the Imperial starfleet, or simply because Han owns and pilots his own ship, we don't know. I suspect it's the former.)

MAJOR STONER,
I believe Solo's rank in the Imperial Navy was only Lieutenant. I think the rank of Captain was given to him as a gesture of appreciation for his involvement in the Battle of Yavin. On the planet Hoth in Empire, General Riken refers to Han as Captain Solo.

Beyond that, I found your discussion to be an amusing take on the good versus evil battle seen in the Star Wars universe.

Y'know, if I've always had an affinity for the Empire, but you gotta admit that X-wings kick ass!!!

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1995 NSX-T
1999 3.2TL
2001 Odyssey
1992 SC400



[This message has been edited by FuryNSX (edited 22 May 2002).]
 
Everyone keeps saying that the love story sucked. Why is this? I think its because they are comparing it to the rest of the movie, and not love stories in other (action/sci-fi) movies. I'll admit that Anakin's "soft and smooth" execution was a little lame, but what do you expect? Sure, the love story is not as cool as the rest of the movie, but isolated it is, at the very least passible, and I happened to enjoy it (maybe because I identify with Anakin).

Let's think about it: even movies that are supposed to be about love, like "Here on Earth" or "Titanic" weren't presented as well, nor as believeable as Episode 2. I can't count how many times I've been "in love" (or so I thought during those hormonally tumultuous times) with an older woman who sees me as "the little boy on tatooine." I'd have fallen to the dark side, too. Anyway, I thought the story did a great job of getting me to identify with, and live vicariously through Anakin; but don't tell me that I'm the only one who has had feelings for an older woman.
 
soulstice,
"Yoda is the man" is exactly what I said after I saw the movie." Biggest payoff in movie history... since I've been alive. But Obi-Wan is the man, too. Kicking the snot out of Jango without a lightsaber (lightsabRE?). That other jedi just got shot to hell later on by the bounty hunter, and he HAD a lightsber. Obi-Wan rocks. Yoda is the man.
 
Originally posted by naaman:
Soulstice, "Yoda is the man" is exactly what I said after I saw the movie."

When Yoda came waddling around the corner in that one fight scene, the whole theater erupted. I've never been in a movie with so much cheering and clapping (and lightsaber salutes).


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'96 Black/Tan NSX-T
 
MAJOR STONER, were you a major in the imperialist army?? I think you gave me an idea about lucas's hidden message.

sw takes place in the universe

the universe is expanding and contracting--(the expanding universe theory)

all the regimes in the universe therefore are continually expanding until bloated and then contracting until imploding

all the characters in the universe are continually expanding and contracting---aniken gets bigger
and look at yoda, he's so old he's really really really contracted

the only way for a regime to avoid this fate is to endorse anarchy. this would explain the last episode with all the little contracted ewoks running amok---anarchy rules!!
 
wow that was some deep thought into the good bad side of star wars. congrats that was a well writen well thougt out post. one of the best ive ever read. and as for the the episoped one movie it was too childish. jah jah killed it. still damn good though. and episod two was great. the love story did blow though. the second half of that movie was wonderful. the scene where the battle was full of dust and the blaster fire was flying though it was imo one of the best scenes ever. i have sence it twice and it makes my very happy almost proud that ep2 was such a compliment to the first 3 episode that were made. sorry about the punctution and spelling and may the force be with you
 
You guys must have seen a different movie than the one they are showing here - it sucked ass. I alternated between two thoughts the entire movie:

1) Hey, for the price of that CGI work, they could have hired a writer!

2) This whinny, pathetic bitchy loser is supposed to grow up to be Darth Vader? WTF? If you get an Anikin Skywaler doll does it say 'Obi Wan is mean to me" or "oooh, my ovaries hurt"?

If Ms. Portman didn't have such a yummy little tummy, I would ahve walked out 30 min into it.

Lucas has completely lost touch with his own franchise. Thank god the fan outrage convinced him to cut the NSync footage or the movie would have sunk to the "Ishtar" level of unintentional self-parody.

[This message has been edited by David (edited 31 May 2002).]
 
Originally posted by MAJOR STONER:
But the truth is that from the beginning, Lucas confused the good guys with the bad. The deep lesson of Star Wars is that the Empire is good.

It's a difficult leap to make--embracing Darth Vader and the Emperor over the plucky and attractive Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia--but a careful examination of the facts, sorted apart from Lucas's off-the-shelf moral cues, makes a quite convincing case.

Entertaining revisionist interpritation, but the truth is that Lucas cut and pasted from Joseph Cambell's work on mythology, to the extant that his original film is really notihing more than a point by point check list of Cambell's requirements for a mythic hero. There is little credibility for such a deep study of ethics when there is no real effort at infusing any new thoughts.

Fun arguement, though.
 
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