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Hesitation issues with Charlotte.

Hugh

Hugh

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This little issue cropped up a couple of days ago and manifests itself daily. Considering the car just passed the 230,000 mile mark I'm a little upset there's a problem. Maybe Honda will goodwill me a new car. :)

Once she warms up there is frequent and noticeable loss of power mostly below 4000 RPM. The exhaust note changes too to that lame burbling sound. At higher RPMs she seems ok.

There is no CEL and therefore no codes to check. It was suggested to me that one of the coil packs is beginning to give up the ghost and I should wait for a CEL and code to identify the bad coil. Correct me if I'm wrong but an OBDI car like my 93 doesn't throw a code for a bad coil.

Since just about every other potential issue seems to have an associated CEL code should I start checking each coil for the correct impedance?

I've been through 3 tanks of gas since the problem started so bad gas can probably be ruled out. I also did a bit of searching and others with similar issues had codes that singled out the O2 sensors as the culprits. Again, I have no CEL light indication. Just an ornery car. :)

I have a B&M fuel pressure gauge that's mounted to the top of the fuel filter and pressure looks fine. Somewhere around 60 I think.

It's been a bout a year or 30,000 miles since the throttle body service so that's on the to do list too but this issue seems to originate somewhere else.

Look forward to see what Larry has to say. :)

Thanks,
Hugh
 
Last edited:
I have the 02-sensor thread in mind where Larry recommends disconnecting the 02 connectors (those around the head cover) and see if the hesitation in limb mode goes away. Did you do this test?
 
Or........you could just call Dwight :wink:




Hugh said:
This little issue cropped up a couple of days ago and manifests itself daily. Considering the car just passed the 230,000 mile mark I'm a little upset there's a problem. Maybe Honda will goodwill me a new car. :)

Once she warms up there is frequent and noticeable loss of power mostly below 4000 RPM. The exhaust note changes too to that lame burbling sound. At higher RPMs she seems ok.

There is no CEL and therefore no codes to check. It was suggested to me that one of the coil packs is beginning to give up the ghost and I should wait for a CEL and code to identify the bad coil. Correct me if I'm wrong but an OBDI car like my 93 doesn't throw a code for a bad coil.

Since just about every other potential issue seems to have an associated CEL code should I start checking each coil for the correct impedance?

I've been through 3 tanks of gas since the problem started so bad gas can probably be ruled out. I also did a bit of searching and others with similar issues had codes that singled out the O2 sensors as the culprits. Again, I have no CEL light indication. Just an ornery car. :)

I have a B&M fuel pressure gauge that's mounted to the top of the fuel filter and pressure looks fine. Somewhere around 60 I think.

It's been a bout a year or 30,000 miles since the throttle body service so that's on the to do list too but this issue seems to originate somewhere else.

Look forward to see what Larry has to say. :)

Thanks,
Hugh
Click to expand...
 
Danny said:
Or........you could just call Dwight :wink:
Click to expand...

I was at Dwight's yesterday. He said to wait for the code. Maybe he was thinking OBDII. I'll call him later today.

Checking the coil packs is no big deal and I do have 2 NSX motors sitting in my garage so I have no shortage of coils. :)
 
goldNSX said:
I have the 02-sensor thread in mind where Larry recommends disconnecting the 02 connectors (those around the head cover) and see if the hesitation in limb mode goes away. Did you do this test?
Click to expand...

The only thing in "limp mode" is "Little Hughie". I'm not getting a CEL and the hesitation is intermittent. I don't believe the car is in limp mode.
 
One thing that may be causing the problem is the blend of fuel that is being sold. There is now a higher % of ethanol and cars built in the early 90's seem to have problems with the injectors as a result. I know of a few people with early-mid 90's cars that had similar problems and that was the diagnosis. I mention this because it is going to become more of a problem for us and it's not something that seems obvious.

Btw, we need to go to the shooting range sometime.
 
Hugh said:
The only thing in "limp mode" is "Little Hughie". I'm not getting a CEL and the hesitation is intermittent. I don't believe the car is in limp mode.
Click to expand...

I strongly recommend doing a search for Larry's recommendation. :wink: In short: If you disconnect both 02-sensors which takes 1/10 of the time of fussing around with coil packs :) you WILL get a CEL code (ignore it because you know what the cause is) and your ECU is using a standard setting without listening to the 02 sensors (maybe a better description for 'limp mode' which is the wrong word here). If the hesitation is gone forever by then you have detected your 02 sensors slowly going bad by high chance. :) If it's still there your engine has another problem.
 
I've had bad gas issues in the past and the current problem has simialr symptoms. I only use Top Tier gas (Chevron/Texaco and Shell). I've been through 3 tanks from different dealers and the problem is still there.

I'm going to simply swap out the 6 coil packs with the ones from one of the motors sitting in my garage. That will either eliminate the problem or at least point me in the next direction.

I've had bad 02 sensors in the past but they immediately threw a code. I have no CEL at the present time. I'm probably a bit overdue for a throttle body cleaning. It could also be a spool valve issue.

Swapping the coils is quick and easy. Mine are 230,000 miles old and there's a really good chance one of them is arcing.

I'll keep you guys posted.

DocL.... call me. I'm up for the range this weekend as well as Canine Cove with our furry friends. Maybe we can combine both activities and shoot other people's dogs. :biggrin: j/k of course.
 
I will do this too. Maybe. Beacuse then I have to pull the clock fuse and that means I have to reset my stereo, EDFC etc.. I'd rather swap the coils first. I get a thrill touching Charlotte's engine.

goldNSX said:
I strongly recommend doing a search for Larry's recommendation. :wink: In short: If you disconnect both 02-sensors which takes 1/10 of the time of fussing around with coil packs :) you WILL get a CEL code (ignore it because you know what the cause is) and your ECU is using a standard setting without listening to the 02 sensors (maybe a better description for 'limp mode' which is the wrong word here). If the hesitation is gone forever by then you have detected your 02 sensors slowly going bad by high chance. :) If it's still there your engine has another problem.
Click to expand...
 
Hrant said:
Just curious, when was the last time/miles you replaced the fuel filter?
Click to expand...

The fuel pressure is around 60 psi, so a glogged fuel filter can be rules out.

My car has some hesitation also up to 4k rpm but very seldomly. My fuel pressure is sometimes a bit low that's why I'm going to change the fuel pump and see if the problem disappears. o2 would be next.
Hugh, let us know.
 
Hrant said:
Just curious, when was the last time/miles you replaced the fuel filter?
Click to expand...

Fuel filter was replaced at 200,000 miles. Pressure is within the normal range. (36-44 psi) (See Section 11-88, or page 264 of online service manual)

bm46054_1.jpg
 
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Reset the ECU.
Clean Throttle Body

Then start swapping out parts from your other NSX:
-Coil Pack
-Spark Plug
-O2 sensors
-Fuel Pack Resistor
-FPR
-Throttle Body
-MAP Sensor
-CVC valve,
-EGR control solenoid valve
-ECU
 
Last edited:
Larry Bastanza said:
Regards,
Lar
Click to expand...

Lar? Have you become some kind of Nordic God? That gives me an idea for Toronto. Maybe we can do a duet for the auctions? :)

OS44063.JPG


Now that the market is closed and can go futz with the car, I'll try all the sage advice and report back.

Thank you everyone for the input.

Lar! My God, I have a sick sense of humor!
 
Hugh said:
Fuel filter was replaced at 200,000 miles. Pressure is within the normal range. (36-44 psi) (See Section 11-88, or page 264 of online service manual)

bm46054_1.jpg
Click to expand...

I suspect fuel pressure is not the issue but of your fuel filter was partially clogged at idle you would not be able to tell looking at your gauge. Only while driving when the injectors are drawing allot of fuel would the pressure drop.

Later,
Don
 
nsxnut said:
I suspect fuel pressure is not the issue but of your fuel filter was partially clogged at idle you would not be able to tell looking at your gauge. Only while driving when the injectors are drawing allot of fuel would the pressure drop.
Click to expand...

Certainly true but let Hugh try Larry's recommendation before throwing parts at the car. :wink:
 
Hugh said:
Lar? Have you become some kind of Nordic God? That gives me an idea for Toronto. Maybe we can do a duet for the auctions? :)
Click to expand...

Lar= LarryB in NSXPrime shorethand:D:D:D

Very Wierd

Regards,
LarryB
 
Where'd you get the fuel pressure gauge?


That looks like a good idea.
 

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