Help me decide on window problem, window fix-it thingie worth it?

[Gokwi]

Pretty soon I plan on ordering from Daliracing.com

as you all know the older nsx's tend to have a window problem.

my window will perfectly come down, but when I bring it back up it slowly (barely) goes up to close. therefore sometimes i have to use my hand to help it fit into place

i'm deciding on to get the Daliracing window fix it thingie or not.
I barely try to open the driver side window, but it is best said to fix the window with the window fix-it thingie ASAP.

I would like to know if any other fellow nsxer has installed this window fix-it thingie, and has came up with good results?

thanks,

 

[Jimbo]

Gokwi,

The window thingies won't do a thing to help your window to go up smoothly.

The thingies correct a design defect that will cause your window regulators to break beyond repair. A broken regulator is very expensive.

The regulators break when the load on the particular component exceeds a certain limit and that limit can easily be reached when the lubricant in the tracks gets sticky and gummy.

You should order the THINGIES (edit: not the regulators) and install them ASAP. When you (or whoever does the work) is in there, you should clean out the tracks and old caked lube and re-lube as required.

Unless you want to spend $400-$800 (2) on new regulators, I would avoid using the windows until this retrofit was made.

-Jim

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 12 February 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 12 February 2003).]

 

[TigerNSX]

Does 93+ NSX require window fix-it thingie as well? From the FAQ, my impression was that it was only for 91-92. However, some 95-96 owners also installed these to their cars. I am a bit confused about this.

Thanks.

 

[nsxtasy]

On any '91-93 NSX that has not had the regulators updated, it is almost inevitable that, sooner or later, the clip on the regulator will break. The reason is well described in the FAQ here. So you have a choice:

1. You can wait for the clip to break. At that point, you will have your NSX with a window that won't go up - probably at a very inconvenient time - and you will be facing the need to buy a new regulator for ~$350 and have it installed for 1-1.5 hours of labor. So your total cost will be $400-500 and that's for each side of the car, so you may be looking at $800-1000.

2. You can buy a set of the window fix-it thingies for $16 and have them installed for 2-3 hours of labor for $150-250 for both sides. Or, if you're handy, you can install them yourself, for a total cost of $16.

Pay $16 to $250 now and have them fixed at your convenience, or $800 to $1000 later at a time when it will almost certainly be a major inconvenience as well as a possible security problem. It's your choice. (I recommend installing the thingies as soon as you can.)

Originally posted by Tiger740:
Does 93+ NSX require window fix-it thingie as well? From the FAQ, my impression was that it was only for 91-92. However, some 95-96 owners also installed these to their cars. I am a bit confused about this.

According to the Technical Service Bulletin (number 93-004), the 1993 NSX does need the fix-it thingies. However, any '94 or later NSX should not need them.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 12 February 2003).]

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...According to the Technical Service Bulletin (number 93-004), the 1993 NSX does need the fix-it thingies. However, any '94 or later NSX should not need them.
...

The TSB was released on March 9th 93, so I think it is reasonable expectation that "most" 93's would have been resolved at the factory with the improvement.
Certainly on my '93 it has the later style (when I went in to address my slow moving window with lube)
If in doubt the inspection is certainly worthwhile, as noted by nsxtasy above.


[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 12 February 2003).]

 

[jlindy]

help me in understanding this. The window fix-it thingie corrects the tendency of the plastic clip to break, but it does not correct the real reason for the excess stress on the clip correct? Which means that even with this $16 fix plus labor, your window will not necessarily go up more smoothly, but in fact just eliminate the probability that your clip will break due to extra stress.

I thought that the 94+ models have redesigned the regulator at the spool (?) I believe to allow for quicker and easier useage of the windows. Sorry if I butchered this, but is this correct. So in short, updating with new regulators is the best if not only fix for slow moving windows, right?

 

[Jimbo]

jlindy,

The "clip" that breaks, isn't really a clip. What actually breaks are the cast metal prongs that hold the plastic retainer clip in place. The plastic retainer clip is the actual device that holds the cable ends in place.

The plastic fails and then undue force is placed upon the prongs and the prongs break.

The thingies are metal and go through a more substantial part of the frame and the frame takes the load and not the prongs.

You are correct when you say that thingies do not fix the problem of the extra stress that sticky window channels and mechanisms can produce.

Although, I would say that the original design was pretty poor to begin with, so it wouldn't take too much of a repeated extra load to induce failure.

-Jim

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 12 February 2003).]

 

[jlindy]

But the fix it thingie doesn't necessarily make the window go up and down more smoothly? A new updated regulator is the only thing that will do this right?

[This message has been edited by jlindy (edited 12 February 2003).]

 

[Jimbo]

No.

The thingies have nothing to do with the quality of the window movement. They just keep the tangs and "clip" from breaking (which ruins the regulator).

Although the poor design might have caused a failure even when excess stress might not have existed.

The failure could occur just from repeated usage. Of course, the extra load caused by gummy tracks/mechanism would just accelerate the process.

If you have slow moving windows you can help the problem by cleaning and re-lubing the tracks/mechanisms. Assuming you've installed the thingies, you don't need to install new regulators in order to make the windows operate at an acceptable speed.

-Jim

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 12 February 2003).]

 

[ANYTIME]

Originally posted by jlindy:
But the fix it thingie doesn't necessarily make the window go up and down more smoothly? A new updated regulator is the only thing that will do this right?

B]

Jimbo answered that question earlier.
You should order the THINGIES (edit: not the regulators) and install them ASAP. When you (or whoever does the work) is in there, you should clean out the tracks and old caked lube and re-lube as required.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by D'Ecosse:
The TSB was released on March 9th 93, so I think it is reasonable expectation that "most" 93's would have been resolved at the factory with the improvement.

Yes, but not for that reason.

Cars for a specific model year can go on sale any time from January of the previous year, through December of that model year. For example, the 1991 NSX went on sale starting around September 1, 1990. The 2002 NSX went on sale around February, 2002.

Cars are manufactured before they go on sale, since time is needed to ship them to the docks, to sail across the ocean, to be stored at the West Coast docks, to be shipped to the dealers, and to be prepped before going on display. I would guess that most NSXs are built a couple of months before they reach a dealer; I know that was true of mine. (You can find out what month a car was built from the sticker on the door jamb.)

During the first few years of NSX production, the new NSX model year was generally introduced in Fall of the previous calendar year. Thus, it's quite possible that more than half of the year's production is completed by March. However, ... (drum roll please) ...

Originally posted by D'Ecosse:
Certainly on my '93 it has the later style (when I went in to address my slow moving window with lube)

...given that your '93 was not quite a third of the way through the model year's production (based on its VIN), THAT proves rather conclusively that most (at least two thirds) of the '93 production had the revised regulator design.

 

[Jimbo]

Oh...

I just thought of this in case anyone was wondering...

Cleaning and re-lubing the tracks and mechanisms will make your windows go up and down easier...

But it should not be viewed as a "fix" and a reason not to install the thingies.

Bottom line is...

Install thingies (if applicable) to prevent breakage and when you install them, clean and lube the tracks/mechanisms to make the windows move properly.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
2003 MINI Cooper S - On Order - All Black
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...given that your '93 was not quite a third of the way through the model year's production (based on its VIN), THAT proves rather conclusively that most (at least two thirds) of the '93 production had the revised regulator design.

Pretty sneeky guy - I'm thinking "Wait a minute, I didn't mention my Vin .... how does he know .... What, Cosmo? Timmy's in the well???" - sorry, got sidetracked on my play-acting

Then I realized a certain executive position gives you access to certain information in its database and it all made sense.

Clever sleuthing!

p.s. I did take into account the model year vs manufacture date in my reckoning, but also deduced that the fix was probably resolved before the TSB actually released; so by beginning of March most likely already introduced into production potentially some months before, thus declaring "most" as >50%. All somewhat speculative of course. By using my VIN as a benchmark, it removes that uncertainty. (I imagine with enough detective work it would be possible to find the actual cut-in date - too bad this info isn't available on the TSB's - you'd think it would have been an easy detail to include)

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 12 February 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by D'Ecosse:
Clever sleuthing!

I've had similar thoughts about the snap ring transmissions. Yes, I realize you can't be sure that your car's transmission was, or wasn't, in the range unless you check the transmission ID, because the transmissions weren't installed in the cars in the same sequence that the transmissions were manufactured. However, it also makes sense that, until the first transmission in the range was manufactured, all NSXs produced had non-range transmissions, so that, below a certain VIN, the NSXs left the factory with non-range transmissions. What is that VIN? I'm pretty sure it's somewhere between MT002500 and MT002600.

It also makes sense that, at some point in the '92 model year, they discovered and corrected the snap ring problem, so all NSXs manufactured after this point are not in the range. However, I have no idea what '92 VIN that would be.

 

[March]

Jimbo,

I have a 92 w/ updated thingies and slow moving windows in the uphill mode. W/ the door cover removed, I planned on lubing everything as the manual shows, but now I wonder how that's done. Do I have to remove the tracks (I hope not) or can I get to the areas that need it? Thanks in advance for any help... March

No.

The thingies have nothing to do with the quality of the window movement. They just keep the tangs and "clip" from breaking (which ruins the regulator).

Although the poor design might have caused a failure even when excess stress might not have existed.

The failure could occur just from repeated usage. Of course, the extra load caused by gummy tracks/mechanism would just accelerate the process.

If you have slow moving windows you can help the problem by cleaning and re-lubing the tracks/mechanisms. Assuming you've installed the thingies, you don't need to install new regulators in order to make the windows operate at an acceptable speed.

-Jim

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 12 February 2003).]