heel to toe mods

[mgrossklaus]

Has anyone been successful in modifying their pedals to really work well?
I have the SOS set installed and they help but it is still a poor set up.
If you look at a BMW or Ferrari that set up is correct. The gas pedal is hinged at the bottom and is on an angle that makes it useful and easy to hit with your heel while your toe is FIRMLY on the brake. Has anyone come up with a way to do that on our cars?
Mark

 

[ChopsJazz]

All you need is a set of good pedal covers (I have Momo) and a lot a practice. Mostly practice.

 

[RSO 34]

This set up "works", meaning that my feet can finally reach properly but now I just need the practice. http://RSO.smugmug.com/gallery/588986/1/24708019

 

[titaniumdave]

A poor craftsman blames his tools!

I know that does not help,:tongue: but when I first got my NSX I thought the pedals needed to be different to heel and toe, but I found out the problem was not the pedals, it was me. Bigger pedals can help you learn, but the stock set up is really pretty good, one just needs to get used to the technique. The one thing which is a bigger help than pedals is shoes though, driving shoes are HUGE as far as heel and toe ease.

Try placing your right foot on the brake pedal with the right edge of the pedal aligned with the center of your foot, (the ball of your foot behind the big toe firmly on the pedal). Now roll your foot to the right so you can hit the throttle pedal with the right edge of you shoe. I find an exaggerated movement of my right knee to the right helps get my foot rolled over to the throttle pedal.

One can also adjust the height of the pedals so the 'home' position of the clutch, brake and throttle pedals are all close to the same position above the floor board. Move the seat close to the pedals so your legs are bent, this will help to move your feet where they need to be, plus keeping your heel up off the floor will help to make the foot roll feel more natural. All of these steps will make the next step of left foot braking be an easier step to achieve.

Now practice, I use this technique when I drive my NSX, or my Tacoma PU, always rev match and heel-toe every down shift. Make it so you do this when ever you are behind the wheel, after 4 years straight of doing this when ever I drive it has become pretty natural. And as long as I practice every day I stay pretty good at it...

 

[stuntman]

You gotta "mad-asian" the heel-toe downshifting in most japanese cars.

A simple set of pedal covers (like everyone mentions) will help. But with proper technique, you can do it in any car.

For the NSX with and without pedal covers (again, pedal covers will make it easier):

Plant you heel at the base of the throttle pedal so you can go on/off throttle. Now imagine nailing your heel to the bottom of the car, so your heel cannot move. Rotate the top of your toe and knee to the left so you can start braking. Now apply the brakes and under braking use your knee and move your knee from the left side (by your right knee) towards the center console. This will allow you to apply a steady braking force while being able to blip the throttle. All the work is done in your knee, not your ankle.

 

[mgrossklaus]

Appreciate all the input !
I have and do practice the roll technique described above I just don't find it a very safe technique. The main reason is that we all practice this on the road.... which is great but on a daily driving basis your not decelerating from 140mph to 60 at threshold braking and the pedals line up totally differently during this manuever than from 40 mph to a stop sign.

I totally agree that practice makes perfect and I agree I need more practice
I was just hoping maybe someone designed a better set up. I can dream can't I ?

So how many of you keep your heel planted as described above vs. having your heel in the air and rolling your foot?
Mark

 

[stuntman]

Appreciate all the input !
I have and do practice the roll technique described above I just don't find it a very safe technique. The main reason is that we all practice this on the road.... which is great but on a daily driving basis your not decelerating from 140mph to 60 at threshold braking and the pedals line up totally differently during this manuever than from 40 mph to a stop sign.

I totally agree that practice makes perfect and I agree I need more practice
I was just hoping maybe someone designed a better set up. I can dream can't I ?

So how many of you keep your heel planted as described above vs. having your heel in the air and rolling your foot?
Mark

Depending on the car, having your heel in the air may be required. For the NSX, i'm able to keep my heel planted on the ground. Again, pedal covers will make this heel on the ground technique easier.

I do it every time I brake and need to downshift. A good place to practice is freeway off ramps where you are decelerating the most in a safe area.

 

[ChopsJazz]

So how many of you keep your heel planted as described above vs. having your heel in the air and rolling your foot?
Mark

I use both techniques. Mostly, I roll the side of my right foot between the brake and throttle. But when the pressure is on and my adrenaline is pumping I lift my right heel, pivoting on the brake off the toes of my foot and blip the throttle with my right heel.

 

[titaniumdave]

This also has something to do with the size of your foot. I wear a size 9 shoe, so my foot is not long enough to have the heel planted and reach across. Plus, I have more control with my foot rolling than blipping with my heel.

For me the pivot point is the ball of my foot off the brake pedal...

 

[NSXGMS]

I have the Autovation pedals and they're great. :wink:

I find elevating the right foot and braking with the ball of the foot is very helpful. In the NSX I have to be in a somewhat reclining position for the best heel-toe feel. It helps to keep the right foot elevated slightly. In a upright position I tend to brake with my toes and scrape the carpet with my heel when moving to the throttle.

Another thing that will help immensely are proper driving shoes. Sneakers just don't cut it. Good driving shoes will make heel-toe driving much, much easier.

 

[evof575gtc]

if you want a good pedal setup, forget pedal covers.


you gotta pay to play.

heel pivot doesnt get easier than with this.

 

[scorp965]

 

[evof575gtc]

well thats no good. you got two right feet. or a deformed pinky toe on your left foot.

 

[scorp965]

well thats no good. you got two right feet. or a deformed pinky toe on your left foot.

They're the brake and throttle pedals, left foot goes on the clutch.

 

[mgrossklaus]

Now the MOON pedals are truely something I haven't thought of...
Lets see a pic. of those installed !

 

[Scin]

I've had good luck with the Autovation pedals, the throttle pedal is large and has a nice lip on the bottom left. I also believe the brake pedal can be adjusted so it better lines up with your throttle.

I've had several different instructors drive my car and say "wow this thing has perfect pedals for heel toe shifting." (this is with the Autovation pedals).

It does really come down to practice though... I can heel toe shift my 92 Ford Ranger (Even though the brake pedal is waaaay too high).

 

[mgrossklaus]

Do you think there is a significant difference between the SOS gas pedal design and the Autovation?

 

[Scin]

I believe the SOS pedals are actually made for SOS by Autovation? If they are not, they are definitely very similar to the Autovation pedals, so you won't gain much by switching.

Does your gas pedal seem too far down in relation to your brake (your brake is too high from the gas)? If this is the case, I believe there is a page in the PDF manual available on Prime that shows you how to adjust the pedal so that it is lower and better matches your gas pedal height. Let me know if you find it, it would be nice to have a reference on where it is.

 

[Matt_337]

if you want a good pedal setup, forget pedal covers.


you gotta pay to play.

heel pivot doesnt get easier than with this.

Has anyone had this installed on their NSX?

This vid of a CGT reminded me of this post

 

[TheDeej]

A poor craftsman blames his tools!

The one thing which is a bigger help than pedals is shoes though, driving shoes are HUGE as far as heel and toe ease.

Definitely agree with this, since I got my puma driving shoes driving doesn't feel right without them.:biggrin:

 

[argon_nsx]

I think it's more what you are use to and less about what is "right"... I personally hate the BMW pedals and found it really hard to heel/toe in both the M3 and M5. Not saying the NSx is easy... but it is what I prefer and am use to and it is what I can actually use smoothly. Practice practice practice ...

 

[Vendetta]

Different things work for different people but if you practice enough on one particular setup, it can make you the expert in that field.

Here's what helped me:
I hated how the gas pedal was sunk in lower than the brake pedal so I put one of those aftermarket pedal covers ONLY on the gas. This raised the gas pedal slightly and also extended it on the bottom which made it easier for me to heel and toe. I pretty much practice whenever I get the chance which is almose every turn on the street. This worked for me but may not work for everyone else. Just gotta practice and see what works best for you.

 

[Taj]

Here's what helped me:
I hated how the gas pedal was sunk in lower than the brake pedal so I put one of those aftermarket pedal covers ONLY on the gas. This raised the gas pedal slightly and also extended it on the bottom which made it easier for me to heel and toe.

I did the exact same thing. Made myself a carbon fiber gas pedal and shim it to the right height but I don't use my heel.

 

[Black 94 #400]

Hahahahahahhaha that's great stuff, I love the humor here at Prime :biggrin:

 

[rbpeirce]

I wear a 10C shoe, which is about as close to average as you can get. Heel-and-toe in the NSX is easier than any other car I have driven except the Lotus Europa. However, to even drive the Lotus I had to buy a pair of special narrow shoes so I could fit into the foot well.

I don't actually heel-and-toe. The left side of the ball of my foot is on the brake and the right side on the throttle. My heel is actually kind of wedged into the right corner below the throttle, so my foot is actually tilted slightly to the left. I roll my foot to the right and left as required. It sounds weird, but I found I was automatically doing it all the time. It is just completely natural.

I did not do anything to my pedals. They are completely stock. Under really hard braking on the track, the depressed brake pedal seems to be at the ideal height for blipping the throttle.

What gives me trouble in most other cars is the brake and throttle pedals are too far apart. If the pedals are close enough together and about the same height, it doesn't matter much how they are hinged. They can be worked together.