Has anyone talked to stoptech about a full kit?

Joined
16 March 2001
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234
Location
Renton, WA
I did a full search for "stoptech" and only found references to the aero rotors.

Anyway, it seems most applications for a full kit from stoptech run in the $2000 range. This being I think usually a large rotor + larger caliper + braket in front, and a larger rotor + bracket + stock caliper in the rear. And I think this is a level of kit that's sorely lacking for the NSX community. I know fastbrakes.com has been working on a kit for quite some time, but last time I asked about it (Nov 22nd), he said:

"Well the NSX has kind of languished for a while, I've been trying to get the other kits done, and the NSX isn't as convenient to test fit since I have to basically borrow a car at the shop to do that..."

The last price point I heard from him was going to be something like $15-1600 for the front, which was new 2-piece (non-floating, afaik) rotors, 6-pot Wilwood calipers, brackets, lines. I think pads were not included. He then said it should cost in the neighborhood of $500 to do a larger rotor + caliper bracket setup for the rear (but again, not a floating design).

I'm currently in a position where I want a larger brake kit, but not a huge one. I had to modify my stock brakes, removing part of the caliper bracket that goes across the front, over the pads. For that reason, I'm not comfortable really beating hard on my brakes (for example, track event), and I don't want to have to replace stock rotors all the time. FYI, the problem stems from the way the spokes are very close to the rotor right in the center, I'm pretty sure they'd fit fine over 97+ plus brakes because of their differen caliper bracket design.

I'm also pretty sure my front wheels will not fit over the brembo or SoS AP Racing setups, and I very specifically do not want to use spacers, because one of the big reason I got these wheels is because they're +45mm offset, giving better steering feel than my previous +38mm wheels.

But anyway, getting back to the question. I've heard a lot of great things about fastbrakes.com kits, but they've all been with lighter, lower-horsepower cars like civics and integras. I'd be a little nervous committing to a brand new kit for a 300hp 3000lb car. And a little nervous about how the non-floating rotors would deal with heat/warping issues. Part of the reason I want to get a brake kit is to reduce my spending on rotors over the long run.

The other problem is that I really don't want to, and can't afford to spend $3000k per end of the car for brembo or ap brakes, or even $1800 per end for Tarox. And I think brakes that big are really overkill anyway, for what I, and I think a lot of other people want to do with the car. Namely street use with occasional track events.

So I was thinking it might be worthwhile to contact stoptech about getting a kit made. They have kits for other cars of comparable power and weight (300zx, skyline, supra, m3), at a very nice ~$2000 price point, and I know they at least make some rotors with a floating hat design, which should maximize rotor life, and most tests I've read of their kits have good results.

However, I did read something somewhere, although I don't remember where, or what exactly was said, that made it soundlike stoptech had a kit in the works, but scrapped it or something, so I thought I should ask here to see if anyone knew before I tried to contact them.

The bottom line is, I really don't think it's too much to ask to be able to find a floating-hat, 4-piston front, stock caliper rear, with 12-13" rotors front and back, that's modestly sized to fit under most 17" wheels, and will perform well for street and recreational track use. I could just upgrade to 97+ brakes, but that wouldn't give much performance improvement, and if I got new pieces, it would cost almost as much as a big brake kit.

If someone made a $2000 kit that performed well and had a lot of fitment options, I think they'd find it would sell like hotcakes.

-Mike
 
Poo. I just looked a little more closely, and it looks like most of stoptech's ~$2000 kits are front only, but still, it doesn't seem like it should add THAT much more to just get some larger rotors, caliper re-mount brackets, and maybe new lines for the rear, considering the front aerorotor kit is only $450. Even if they could hit a $2500-3000 price point for front and rear with good balance, and without asking too much in terms of wheel fitment, I'd still go for it.

-Mike
 
Oh, and if anyone in Phoenix is interested in the fastbrakes.com kit, maybe you could contact them and see if you could arrange to loan them your car to expedite the development process. Contact info is on their website at www.fastbrakes.com. Note: this is me asking, not them, I have no idea if they're actually interested in borrowing a car, or how motivated they really are to finish the kit.

If anyone else is interested in that kit, I can dig through some more old emails and try to put up a summary of what he was working on, last I asked.

-Mike
 
Alright, I guess I should have called this topic, "I am stupid and ignorant".

I just confirmed with Chris Willson that the $3295 AP Racing kit is front and rear. That's actually kind of hard to beat. I'd still like something closer to $2000 that will be easier to fit under wheels in general.

Does anyone in the LA area have that kit installed who might be willing to let me see if my front wheels will fit over it?

-Mike
 
Here is some background on the development of our kit that you may find interesting.

The NSX has unique brake balancing requirements due to it's weight distribution. Most kits for the NSX use the same specification discs and calipers in the front and rear. The first problem this creates is upset braking balance. The bias of the rear is disproportionate to the front due to the larger braking torque generated in the rear. This then requires bias valves to decrease pressure to the rear kit. The second problem this creates is loss of the e-brake. The NSX uses a integrated lever type e-brake in the factory caliper. When the factory caliper is removed, you lose the e-brake. An e-brake is offered by Brembo, but at the hefty price of $995. The e-brake is also secured by a bracket that attaches with very small bolts to the dust shield's bolt locations. The rigidity of the bracket is not that great (although I have never heard of problems when both sides are used).

When our kit was made, numerous data points were compiled and calculated to determine optimal design for braking balance.

Each component of the kit was carefully selected...

1. anodized aluminum discs and mounting brackets were manufactured keeping weight down and strength up with radiused edges for maximum strength.

2. no-compromise triple-heated & directionally ventilated 13" discs. Other kits use discs that wear out quicker & do not have directional vents, decreasing the life span of the discs. Front discs feature floating discs that allow compensation for heat expansion between the different metal compositions.

3. calipers: 4 piston sequential AP Racing calipers up front. Other kits have pads that wear unevenly as the disc travels through the caliper. We use the factory caliper over a large 13" disc with special 1-piece adaptor
brackets. This maintains proper balance while allowing us to retain the factory e-brake.

A big factor was also price. RM Racing used to offer a similar kit with out all the features for $3995 I believe. Other kits, such as a Brembo Gran Turismo front & rear kit with proportioning valves and a Brembo e-brake are in the $6000 range ($6835 retail). The closest match would be a Tarox brake kits. However, our kit, at $3295.00 features higher quality construction and better features.

The first kit was installed on my car, and lasted 8-10 track events and about 6000-8000 miles using the same discs and the same pads Carbotech)! It was first used at NSXPO 2001 at Road America and taken off only a few months ago for R&D.

More details here: http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/braking_performance_parts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/AP_Racing

Cheers,
-- Chris


------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
 
Thanks a lot chris. I'll get that diagram printed out and try it.

When you said you went 8-10 events on the pads/disks... Do you mean you had to change pads AND disks after 10 events? Or just pads?

-Mike

[This message has been edited by grippgoat (edited 12 January 2003).]
 
Same discs/same pads with life left on both. Indicates how thermally efficient the kit is.

Regards,
-- Chris

Originally posted by grippgoat:
Thanks a lot chris. I'll get that diagram printed out and try it.

When you said you went 8-10 events on the pads/disks... Do you mean you had to change pads AND disks after 10 events? Or just pads?

-Mike

[This message has been edited by grippgoat (edited 12 January 2003).]
 
the nsx is currently on stoptech's "to do" list. not sure when it will happen, but they do have someone lined up to be the guinea pig. i never really talked with them about whether it would be a full kit or not but now i'm curious. i'll keep you guys posted if i hear any news.
 
Originally posted by ScienceofSpeed:
Here is some background on the development of our kit that you may find interesting.

Chris,

Does your kit for the '91-96 NSX fit under the '91-93 stock 15"/16" wheels?
 
Poo. I measured the image, and then took a ruler out to my wheels, and I'm not even close. I'd need at least a 1/2" spacer, probably more like 3/4". The edge of the caliper still hits in the meaty part of my spokes. If it were farther out, it'd probably fit OK. *sigh*

Maybe I should just find a shop to make me a custom kit with the small wilwood calipers.

-Mike
 
Ken --

The kit uses 13" discs. 17" wheels are required up front. About the largest disc you'll be able to clear is about a 12.4" with a compact caliper. The year designations on the website refer to the fact that the later models require additional components (which is why the kit is more for 1997+).

Mike -- If your brake clearance is that low, you may wish to run spacers, or better yet, hub adaptors that rigidly bolt to the hub. You will likely run into this problem on most of the big brake kit available.

Cheers,
-- Chris

------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
 
Chris, I *know* I'll run into the same problem with all the kits available. But I'm also quite sure a 13" rotor with a compact caliper like the wilwood Billet Dynalite would work. That's why I'm thinking maybe I should just get something custom. If a .8" rotor in 13" dia would have enough heat capacity, such a setup would actually be pretty nice from a weight point of view.

If I'm going to have any custom work done, though, I'll probably take my current wheels, along with a stock '91 front, and also try to find someone to loan a 94+ 16" front, and see if maybe it'd be possible to do a 12" kit that would fit all three applications.

-Mike
 
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