Harness info requested

[ryneen]

I'm getting tired of moving all around the car in my stock seats while on the track. I think I can remedy this with a 4 or 5 point harness. I would like to retain my stock seats in order to keep the car wife freindly. However, I'm not against getting race seats if needed. Can anyone recommend a good setup?
Thanks,
Ryan

 

[ryneen]

I forgot to mention that I'm tall and skinny (6'3" and 165lbs). I'm not sure if harness bars and belts fit all body types, if so, I need one for my height.

Also, it would be great to get one that I can mount a camera to.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[MarkB]

Ryan,

I wanted a harness to keep me stable in my seat. I came up withe a solution that works quite well. Have your local upholstery shop cut a slot for the 5^th point like I did. Get a harness bar and harness and you're in business. I use my bar as a camera mount as well. Later today, I will post more pics of my setup.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Mark,

I would move the sub belt one section forward. The sub belt supposed to be mounted straight down when you are buckled in.

 

[KGP]

I forgot to mention that I'm tall and skinny (6'3" and 165lbs). I'm not sure if harness bars and belts fit all body types, if so, I need one for my height.

I'm 6'-3" also. I installed the Dali harness bar and found that it reduced the amount of leg room I had to where I was uncomfortable. For people that don't have the same length legs, I'm sure it wouldn't be a big deal. To me the leg room reduced was pretty drastic. My understanding is that the Comptech bar does not eliminate much leg room at all. I need to confirm this by visiting with another local owner, and will do so in the not too distant future.

Another thing that dissapointed me with the setup I went with is the 5-points. Again, this issue has little bearing on those who are not as tall as me. In order to be comfortable in the car with a helmet on, I have to use the dali pad (to increase head room). Just driving around the streets, I'd prefer to use the OEM seat pads. On the 5 points I have, the buckle is on the sub belt, which makes removing the dali pad and re-installing the OEM pad a huge hassle.

 

[ncdogdoc]

......On the 5 points I have, the buckle is on the sub belt, which makes removing the dali pad and re-installing the OEM pad a huge hassle.

What brand of belts do you use? I have never seen a racing harness that did not have the buckle on the lap belt. Can you just swap the sub belt for one of your lap belts (usually outboard) to resolve your problem?

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

New Scroth usually have the camlock on the sub-belt. That being said, you can convert them to the lap belt if you wish if you are mechanically incline.

 

[KGP]

What brand of belts do you use? I have never seen a racing harness that did not have the buckle on the lap belt. Can you just swap the sub belt for one of your lap belts (usually outboard) to resolve your problem?

I have some new Scroth's. Thanks, Andrie - I'll take a look at doing just that. I hadn't even thought that would be posible.

 

[92 white 0650]

Well, maybe it's too late for you to consider, but

For anyone looking for the ultimate in convenience when switching between track harness and the stock 3 point belts, I would recommend they look into the Comptech 6 point harness. The anti sub belts are " formula style" thread-throughs that you sit on. They slip through the opening between the bottom cushion and the back rest of the seats, so there is no need to cut up the seat cushion or alter the stock seats or belts in any way. You can keep your stock seats and belts for street driving and put on the harness in about 30 seconds; about the time it takes to pull the harness belts out from behind the seat and buckle in.

Pictures http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18729&highlight=white+0650

Don't know about the leg room difference between the Comptech and Dali bars.

 

[KGP]

FYI, I checked with Scroth about changing the camlock to the outboard harness starp. Here is their reply (product engineer):

You would have to send us the camlock and we would need to replace. They are manufactured pre-set for each mounting point, so it is a different camlock all together that is needed, there is no way to modify the one you have. Hope this helps.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

That is interesting. Did you buy it through HMS (Joe Marko)? I guess, the new ones might be the case. I knew I did one before.

 

[Ponyboy]

Jeez, never thought being short and fat would be an advantage. I've got Sparco (rebadged Schroth) belts w/ camlock (which is awesome) and the Dali bar with no comfort issues. Helped a lot with keeping my knees from being bruised and staying focused on just driving.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Shawn,

so you got the very new Sparco/Scroth harness (they just came out this year). Does all the pull-up hardware similar to Scroth or they still use Sparco hardware?

 

[Chris F]

You would have to send us the camlock and we would need to replace. They are manufactured pre-set for each mounting point, so it is a different camlock all together that is needed, there is no way to modify the one you have. Hope this helps.

I was about to say something similar.. my 5 pt camlock isn't symetrical, so the attachment point probably couldn't move between the lap belt and sub belt. The belts would attach at slightly wrong angles if you rotated it.

Anyhow--

Not to go all "safety nazi" on you, but it is "common knowledge" in the NASA organization that a harness bar with 5-pt harness can kill you in a rollover. Your roof won't have rollover protection, and you won't be able to fall to one side (or straight back?) with the harness holding you vertical. But, I have seen it used with BMWCCA and even attaching harnesses to the rear seatbelt locations on a 3-series, with no safety complaints.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=978258

K&K insurance won't cover HPDE's that allow harnesses without rollbars (SCCA, etc?)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=462717

Side note: I'm not sure if I agree with it, that the net safety of a harness on a harness bar is less safe than a stock belt by itself (taking into account all types of collisions). YMMV

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

I was about to say something similar.. my 5 pt camlock isn't symetrical, so the attachment point probably couldn't move between the lap belt and sub belt. The belts would attach at slightly wrong angles if you rotated it.

Not rotate it. But take it apart and pin it on the lap belt instead of sub belt. Moot point now since it is no longer applicable.

Anyhow--

Not to go all "safety nazi" on you, but it is "common knowledge" in the NASA organization that a harness bar with 5-pt harness can kill you in a rollover. Your roof won't have rollover protection, and you won't be able to fall to one side (or straight back?) with the harness holding you vertical. But, I have seen it used with BMWCCA and even attaching harnesses to the rear seatbelt locations on a 3-series, with no safety complaints.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=978258

K&K insurance won't cover HPDE's that allow harnesses without rollbars (SCCA, etc?)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=462717

Side note: I'm not sure if I agree with it, that the net safety of a harness on a harness bar is less safe than a stock belt by itself (taking into account all types of collisions). YMMV

I don't agree. You can do a search on harness on this site to see my take on that.

 

[Peter Mills]

I've been reading all these posts but no one has asked if his lap and shoulder straps are 3" and his anti-sub 2". If his set is all 2" maybe he installed incorrectly. I've never seen the cam lock on the anti-sub belt...never. It's usually on the right lap belt.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

I've been reading all these posts but no one has asked if his lap and shoulder straps are 3" and his anti-sub 2". If his set is all 2" maybe he installed incorrectly. I've never seen the cam lock on the anti-sub belt...never. It's usually on the right lap belt.

Peter,

not the case on new Scroth. Trust me. It is hard to miss a 6 point and a 5 point in my case. In others, it is hard to miss the orientation on the camlock

 

[KGP]

I've been reading all these posts but no one has asked if his lap and shoulder straps are 3" and his anti-sub 2". If his set is all 2" maybe he installed incorrectly. I've never seen the cam lock on the anti-sub belt...never. It's usually on the right lap belt.

From Schroth's website: 5-Point Professional Restraint; approx. 1.98 kg (4.37 lbs); 3“ Lap belts; RFR™ Rotary Buckle fixed to the anti-sub strap.

 

[ryneen]

I read the info on honda-tech.com. Now I really don't know what to do. I'm having trouble staying in place in my seat while on the track, therefore I want the harnesses. I would also like some rollover protection if possible. However, I'm confused if the harness is in fact more dangerous in a rollover without a rollcage. I'm praying that this never happens, but at the speeds I'm driving, I'm VERY concerned about my safety.

What I understand is that there is no safe streetable rollcage. If this is correct, I don't know what to do. I heard the roof of the NSX is quite strong. Should I be concerned? Should I get a harness/bar without a rollcage? Is there in fact a streetable roll cage? Any suggestions?

I'm going to Cal Speedway next month and I'm trying to get this resolved by then. I'm fairly confident in my driving, but you never know what can happen and the speeds there are scary.

Thanks in advance,
Ryan

 

[ryneen]

I think I know what I'm going to do now. I'm just going to get some Sparco seats to hold me in and use the stock seat belts. I really like the stock look of the car and seats and didn't want to change the look, however, it sounds like the best idea in order to hold me in place while hitting the track.
Ryan

 

[NSXDreamer2]

this is a very very silly question, the 5 point harness, the fifth one does go between your legs right? In case of collision, that belt supposed be holding yourself slipping underneath the steering wheel (submarine effect)... Then the part who will "take" the impact would be your precious...organs right?? Does racer who sport 5 pt. harness wearing anything protective underware??
It never brings the attention to me but one day when I flipped through channels, the program showing some dummies with a 5/6 pt. harness and the dummie still manage to hit the steering wheel hard... I had nightmere about me getting intimate with my momo wheel that night....

By the way, Ryan, make sure you do enough seats in the pants experience on seats. Do not just go by anyone's suggestion. Getting in and out of nsx with race bucket could be physical and getting very challenging manevering yourself out from a tight parking spot. The reclinable ones is more reasonable for street and occasional track use.

 

[ryneen]

NSXdreamer2,
Thanks for the info about getting in and out of the car. Does anyone have comments on a specific seat model that is easy to get in and out of but is still supportive? I know some people are using Recaro Pole Position's. Are these easy to get in and out of the car? Does Sparco make a good seat for this? I'm going to do my own investigation, but any insight would be appreciated.
Ryan

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: wearing anything protective underware??

The anti-sub belt keeps the lap belts in place which keeps your lower torso in place. Without the anti-sub belt, the tension on the shoulder harness would pull up and displace the lap belts. The 5 point is not a problem for your privates as they will be sucked up inside anyway, trust me. :redface:

But that aside, the 6 point is said to be more secure than a 5 point.

 

[ncdogdoc]

stock seat with chest strap

Ryan,

The Sparco seat is a good idea, but I have a two step process that is not nearly as expensive or radical, although it sounds stupid. But here goes.

Remove the stock seat cushion. Lateral thigh bolsters now hold the bottom half of your body very still.

Check any race supplier, especially the short track types for a chest strap.
These are quick snap polyester (or some sort of synthetic woven fiber) belts that wrap around the seat and your chest to keep the upper half of your body still during cornering. Then add a CG lock to the stock belt and you should be much snugger in your seat.