GT-R killers

T

Timpo

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According to the January 2008 issue of Holiday Auto (Japanese car magazine), I guess Japanese companies are building some supercars to fight against the GT-R.

-The Lexus LF-A(V10 proto type) did 7:24 on Nurburgring:eek:
-Honda is developing 4.5L V10 580hp engine for NSX successor.
-Mazda is building the 4th gen RX-7 achieving 3kg/hp(6.6lbs/hp) ratio.
-Mitsubishi "might" bring back the GTO(3000GT VR-4) with high tech gadgets.

also the info on V-Spec:
According to Mr. Mizuno from Nissan, the V-Spec is going to be couple million yen more(couple $10,000 more) and is going to be very race track oriented.

165338.jpg
 
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As for Lexus' 'ring time, don't believe it one second.

Claim all you want but I don't believe it until Auto, Motor und Sport or some other magazine hires a race driver to do that circuit, not just some mombo-jombo numbers from the maker...


6 seconds faster than Carrera GT, Enzo, Veyron, MC12 and so on? Call me a skeptic :rolleyes:
 
liftcontrol said:
As for Honda developing a 580 hp engine for the NSX successor, that will happen only in the wet dreams of Honda's panty wearing, Insight building, trash talking-with-nothing-to-show-for-it, CEO.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

So if they do build it, will this be you?:smile:
 
A little off topic but Mugen is also doing an Inspire (Accord in the USA?). Check the Honda Japan website. Pretty nice looking car, I wish my wife would let me have one of these instead of our Aerowave (minivan):frown: Not a GT-R killer but nice looking as a family sedan. And cooler than our minivan.
DJ

http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCESS/inspire/exterior/index.html Modulo Stuff

http://www.mugen-power.com/street/inspire/ Mugen Street

http://www.mugen-power.com/motorsports/super_gt_2007.html Cool pic I found...
 
liftcontrol said:
As for Honda developing a 580 hp engine for the NSX successor, that will happen only in the wet dreams of Honda's panty wearing, Insight building, trash talking-with-nothing-to-show-for-it, CEO.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Werd.

580 hp 4.5L V-10? Yeah, right. I don't believe even Honda is capable of such engineering for a road car engine. That's 128+ hp/L in a V-10. Not even Honda has exceeded 120 hp/L in any form, let alone the inherently unstable V-10. I don't believe it's feasible for an engine that has to last 100K+ miles.

Just the engine alone would cost an enormous amount to produce driving the price of whatever car it's in too far up. Toyota's predicted V-10 will be closer to 5.0L and be right around 500hp, struggling to get 100 hp/L--much more realistic and cost-effective. A manufacturer does not want to pay for premature rebuilds on a $40,000 engine. Remember, all the existing high-output V-10s are in cars that see very little average mileage and have less extensive warranties (M5/M6, Gallardo, GCT). Not only will it be years before we see how unreliable these new generation V-10s are but if and when they do blow up the customers will be footing the bills. Not so with Toyota and Honda. That's why I'm still not 100% convinced Lexus will be using the V-10 yet in the LF-A. They still may use the IS-F block and pump it up by 125 hp. 550+ hp in that block is very doable. It's a 5.0L V-8 that would only need to generate 110 hp/L. Piece of cake for Toyota and a V-8.

I think the LF-A's pricing will be in the 125K-145K range. Acura cannot hang in that price range and there's no way a car with a 128 hp/L V-10 and modern technology will cost much less. When the ASCC debuted with an estimated price range of about $70K I predicted it would either cost way more and be consistent with Honda's model or be $70K and be a shadow of what Honda claimed it would be. It seems I was on to something b/c Honda scrapped that thing very quickly. I think Honda realized they could not produce the ASCC they advertised for $70K.

Nissan has gotten around that nicely with a lot of power (easily and cheaply generated with turbos) and awesome suspension and electronics technology. The car weighs a lot (3700 lbs) and they were very smart to utilize a wind tunnel to get a design that produced an outstanding Cd even further maximizing that power. So they were able to produce a fast car cheaply. But the turbos and electronics are key--things that Honda tends to shy away from. It's a more pure but more expensive way to go.

I don't see Honda any other way than in a bind. The ASCC or any NSX replacement is years away. By the time it comes out the LF-A will be ready for it's first update! Without a V-8 I think they are totally dead in the water against these upcoming cars.
 
NSXGMS said:
...Toyota's predicted V-10 will be closer to 5.0L and be right around 500hp, struggling to get 100 hp/L--much more realistic and cost-effective...

That's why I'm still not 100% convinced Lexus will be using the V-10 yet in the LF-A...
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that article confirms what "rumors" are going around the web about the Lexus... and it is infact a 4.8L V10 doing ~ 550hp with a high 9,000rpm limit. Should have Direct Injection Technology just like the IS-F.

However the V10 is just for showmanship, as the same HP figures could have been produced for the 5.0l V8. The current one does 416hp/371lb.ft. and 6800rpm limit.

IIRC, that block is the same shared with the new gen V8s (with the 5.0l in LS600h, 4.6l from LS460, 5.7l from LX570, Tundra, Sequoia.)

So we know the engine can go upto 5.7l, and IIRC its been designed to go upto 6.0l Make the motor capable of going into the 8,000+rpm range and 550hp isn't far off. I'd say 100hp/l is achievable for Toyota/Lexus w/o the use of Hybrids.

But the point is Lexus/Toyota has options. I'm sure the LF-A will be available with more then one engine just like every other car in there line up (minus the SC430 it will inherently replace)

.
.
.

That said, it still leaves Honda/Acura with no V8. Not even a V6 with FI to compete with V8s. Ford is cutting back on V8s and going with V6 and FI and Direct Injection because of new CAFE laws. But they still have the power.

So I guess Honda will still be behind the curve.
 
My understanding for Hona considering the V10 was to match the number of cylinders current F1 cars used. And that was a couple of years ago.

So the V10 info could be old news re-hashed.

I think a V8 would make more sense, esp with pollution and MPG standards getting tougher.
 
I think magazines know what to write to sell magazines.

A 580 hp Honda? I mean the new ZR1 is going to cost $100k plus (they'll sell out of course). But a 580hp high tech V10? That's going to be very pricey, and we all know how well our NSXs sold once they went up in price.

Give me something I can actually buy that performs and looks fantastic. Keep it below $100k and give my a 120hp/litre V8. Sure I'd love a 600hp honda, but it sounds like a fairy tale.
 
CarCrazed4Life said:
I'm pretty sure that article confirms what "rumors" are going around the web about the Lexus... and it is infact a 4.8L V10 doing ~ 550hp with a high 9,000rpm limit. Should have Direct Injection Technology just like the IS-F.

However the V10 is just for showmanship, as the same HP figures could have been produced for the 5.0l V8. The current one does 416hp/371lb.ft. and 6800rpm limit.

IIRC, that block is the same shared with the new gen V8s (with the 5.0l in LS600h, 4.6l from LS460, 5.7l from LX570, Tundra, Sequoia.)

So we know the engine can go upto 5.7l, and IIRC its been designed to go upto 6.0l Make the motor capable of going into the 8,000+rpm range and 550hp isn't far off. I'd say 100hp/l is achievable for Toyota/Lexus w/o the use of Hybrids.

But the point is Lexus/Toyota has options. I'm sure the LF-A will be available with more then one engine just like every other car in there line up (minus the SC430 it will inherently replace)

.
.
.

That said, it still leaves Honda/Acura with no V8. Not even a V6 with FI to compete with V8s. Ford is cutting back on V8s and going with V6 and FI and Direct Injection because of new CAFE laws. But they still have the power.

So I guess Honda will still be behind the curve.
Click to expand...


Just curious, Why have a V10 with the same power output as a V8 isn't that just added weight...is there an advantage??

also aren't the new LMP2 Acura cars V10s?
 
Nukem said:
Just curious, Why have a V10 with the same power output as a V8 isn't that just added weight...is there an advantage??

also aren't the new LMP2 Acura cars V10s?
Click to expand...

I've always wondered that about using V-10s. Why? Is it just to be different and "exotic"? It's exponentially more expensive and difficult to get the kind of output in a V-10 than one could ever achieve in a V-8 or V-12. And yes, it's probably going to be heavier.

There's a reason V-10s have been almost totally avoided for 100 years in cars. The Viper V-10 is a different animal--a low-output, high-displacement monster that is used as a "unique" selling point. High-output V-10s are very poor choices, especially when the engine has to last more than 70 laps on a track.

As I've said, time will tell how long these new generation V-10s hold up. I don't think any of them will reach 60K miles without major problems.
 
NSXGMS said:
I've always wondered that about using V-10s. Why? Is it just to be different and "exotic"? It's exponentially more expensive and difficult to get the kind of output in a V-10 than one could ever achieve in a V-8 or V-12. And yes, it's probably going to be heavier.

There's a reason V-10s have been almost totally avoided for 100 years in cars. The Viper V-10 is a different animal--a low-output, high-displacement monster that is used as a "unique" selling point. High-output V-10s are very poor choices, especially when the engine has to last more than 70 laps on a track.

As I've said, time will tell how long these new generation V-10s hold up. I don't think any of them will reach 60K miles without major problems.
Click to expand...

To me it seems V10s to the High Performance Cars are what V12s are to the Ultra Luxury Cars. More of bragging rights...

Besides V10s are more rare then V12/W12s right now so its the new fad.
 

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