GruppeM V2 Impressions (A Collection)

[drewdeezee]

I did an exhaustive (pun intended) research before deciding on the muffler that I want. My criteria in the order of most important to least important is:
1. Sound
2. Sound
3. Sound
4. Affordablity
5. Looks
6. Power

I used NSXPrime's search function enough to make the Forums Nazi proud and have decided that the GruppeM is the one for me. I thought I'd have to buy a V3 because the V2 is discontinued and I never thought I'd have a chance of owning one. I didn't find the V2 -- the V2 found me! (That's how much I like it!)

The details on how I got the exhaust is in this thread:
Fujitsubo Exhaust and GruppeM V2 Exhaust


It's only been a day since I've had the exhaust installed and I'm in love!!!


The looks and the sounds are everything I've heard and read about. The intoxicating high pitched screams, the droning/booming at 2500-3000 rpm, the quiet idle, and too-far left alignment issue is what I've experienced.

What I'm saying is redundant but the shrieking sound this exhaust makes is absolutely amazing! To me, the sounds alone make up for its shortcomings in the droning and alignment department.

CDub, BB, NSXBOX, SilverOne, and others have already given excellent reviews on this product and I've put them together in this thread because I agree with what they wrote.

The one new thing I'd like to add about the exhaust is what my girlfriend told me as we entered the freeway:

"Your exhaust sounds SCARY!!!"

:biggrin: :biggrin: PRICELESS!!! :biggrin: :biggrin:



GruppeM V2 Exhaust Review

I purchased the exhaust from Alex Viscarra, the U.S. GruppeM distributor. Cost was $2700 delivered to my door.

Build Quality
Build quality appears to be top notch. Out of the box, the stainles steel twin canisers and exhaust tips were as shinny as a mirror. The connecting pipes were smoothly bent but left unpolished. Welds were neat, clean, and even.

Installation
As you can see, the Gruppe M V2 exhaust requires removal of both catalytic converters. A single piece bypass pipe is
provided that takes the two pipes and combines them into one. Then the single pipe splits back in two, one going to each of the canisters.

Installation was straightforward and took only a couple hours. The most difficult part was removing the rusted nuts holding the catalytic converters and old exhaust in place. Ended up having to use an impact wrench with a universal joint to remove them. Once past this hurdle, the new exhaust was quickly aligned and bolted down. The exhaust included brand new bolts and nuts to which we applied liberal amounts of anti-sieze before inserting and tightening down.

After installation the exhaust tips were perfectly centered. But after a a brief drive I noticed the whole unit had shifted towards the driver's side of the car. Checking again a little later, it had continued to shift. It eventually stopped, but only 2mm away from the touching the plastic valance. Several weeks later I have yet to melt any plastic, but I am a little concerned.

I'm not sure what the GruppeM exhaust weighs, but when I lifted the stock exhaust off the car I couldn't believe how heavy it felt. The stock exhaust must weigh at least twice that of GruppeM's.

Looks
The exhaust sports two large dual tips at each end. These fill the exhaust holes on the NSX's rear valance more fully giving
the car's rear end a much improved look. Personally, I like the look better than any of the other NSX exhausts I've seen.

Sound
The sound changes tone at various rpm's, adding to the character of the sound. Here's the sound from about 10 feet behind the car while revving the engine: <a href="http://www.nas.com/~barryb/gruppe_m.mp3">GruppeM MP3</a>

I will try and post further sound files (heavy acceleration, inside car, alongside road, etc...) once I figure out how to best record them.

<u>Idle</u>
Ultra low and authoritative. Sounds like a big engine, but without the annoying uneven, spurty noise most big American engines make. Nice.

<u>1000-2000 rpm</u>
Usually very quiet in this range

<u>2000-3000 rpm</u>
Lots of low frequency resonance. Enough so that it sometimes causes things to vibrate inside the cabin. (That never happened with the stock exhaust.) None of my passangers have ever compalined about it, so it must not be too obnoxious. One person even commented that they "liked" the resonance. I guess I'm just overly sensitive to it.

<u>3000-3500 rpm</u>
Relatively quiet in this range while cruising at 70 mph. Perfect for highway driving. The car is still usable for long trips without getting a headache from the droning exhaust. Perfect!

<u>3500 - 5000 rpm</u>
Sound changes to a higher-pitched, sharper shrill tone. In this range the exhaust shreak is so awesome that I find myself constantly trying to keep my rpm's in this range. There is a menancing sharpness to the tone here that you have to stand behind the car in person to appreciate (the MP3 file I made doesn't do it justice).

Besides the exhaust, the other "sound maker" I have on my car is the Gruppe M carbon fiber intake. Under heavy acceleration in this rpm range, the two units harmonize together to produce a sound that is very reminicant of an F355. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I can't help but think Gruppe M designed it this way on purpose. Anyway, the sound in this rpm range is beautiful and makes me want to accelerate even harder!

<u>Above 5000 rpm</u>
The sound continues to have a high pitched tone, but starts to lack the piercing sharpness that was present at 3500 rpm. It would be nice if that menacing sound continued all the way to redline, but it doesn't. The sound still sounds nice in this range, but lacks the awesomeness experienced just moments ago at lower RPM. It's a relative kind of thing.

Loudness
The loudness of the unit is perfect to me. Before buying the unit I was afraid it might be too loud, but the volume level is quite mellow from inside the car with the windows rolled-up.

With the windows rolled-down is an entirely different matter. While driving through downtown I can hear the exhaust note richocheting against the buildings and other cars. Pedestrians turn around and look at me long before I appoarch them. Obviously this is a fairly loud exhaust! And if I quickly rev the engine as I pass by someone on the street, they're almost guarenteed to spin around and look. For the first couple days after I got the exhaust installed, I couldn't help but keep doing that as I drove past people-- it was just so damn cool sounding and made me feel like a little kid playing with his toy Ferrari!

Performance
Compared to the factory exhaust, my car now feels slightly more powerful with the Gruppe M exhaust installed. This is entirely subjective and I have no dyno results to back it up with. However, I did not get this sensation after installing the Gruppe M intake.

Here is my NSX looking out over the ocean islands of Puget Sound after having worked hard making glorious sound along the cliffs of Chukanut Drive. While parked here I even got several comments from other cars who'd stopped to enjoy the view about how good my car "sounded". Never had that happen before!

This exahust adds a lot of excitement to an already good drive, making it that much better.

The sound of the exhaust isn't outragously loud, it's more dominant and difficult to ignore because of its piercing quality. The exhaust is quite laid back when just cruising around town and not accelerating too much.
Basically, if you want to keep it soft while in heavy traffic, it's easy to do. It doesn't boom or produce rediculously loud bass at a stop light. But when you want to do some spirited driving, it's there for you with a much louder, piercing tone. I think it's almost perfect in this regard.

I've pretty much stopped revving it at people. I'll admit it was rather childish, but I was so excited for the first few days of my new exhaust that I wanted everyone to hear it! And boy does it sound much better than any stinkin' Harley!

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11342&highlight=GruppeM

The best I can describe it is that it sounds like a superbike, more like a higher pitched scream very unlike that of the low rumble of RM, and the raspyness of CT. It sounds exactly like that of Jay's Phase unit... and it is very, very loud! But nice! Driving through the narrow streets of Tokyo in full throttle, with the sound reverberating between the high rises, was an awesome experience.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69906&highlight=GruppeM

NSX's stock exhaust needs more visceral tone. I recommend GruppeM! I have heard almost all of the

aftermarket ones in person, and have yet to hear anything better. I have a Version 2 which is no longer made.

Before you choose an exhaust, it is imperative to listen to as many as possible. Sound files are just not the same

as hearing it in metal.

If you are conservative however, GruppeM might not be for you, as anything above 3000 would make your car shrieking

loud. If I can describe the GruppeM's sounds in one word, it is "piercing".

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3496&highlight=GruppeM

I had the DC headers on for over 6 months before I installed the GruppeM ver.2. When the headers were

installed, I could feel the performance increase by the seat of the pants. It was noticable.The engine run smoother

and happier and no louder than before the headers.

I was told that the stock exhaust is pretty unrestrictive already. When I installed the GMV2, the only thing I

noticed was the awesome sound of the exhaust.

GruppeM V2 vs V3 Comparisons

Tubi vs. GruppeM V2 vs. Taitec GT


http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2599&highlight=GruppeM

I have heard the GruppeM v2 and it sounds awesome. It's more high pitched than the Tubi.

I had been searching for the perfect exhaust since 3 years ago. The options were few. (Comptech, RM, RSR,

DC Sports, HKS, Finstar, ARC) Then I heard the GruppeM a few months ago and was very impress with the sound quality.

Then SOS offers the Taitec at 37% of the GM's price.

I purchased the Taitec based on the feedback from others, I was excited to get the Taitec. The built quality was very

high. After the install, I was impress with the sound level. Quiet below 3k RPM and good sound level at WOT.

Regardless of the built quality of the unit, there is no comparison to the GM setup. Compromising just was not an

option. The GM built quality is also very high. I just love that dual canister design.

On top of that, it weights 35lb(?) that replaces the OEM exhaust (45lbs?) PLUS both CATS (30 lbs?). It connects

directly to my DC headers. Just love that setup!

There are a couple of things that I have to live with though.
1>The dual tips misaligned by 2/10th of an inch that comes very close to the valance on the right side.
2> From 3k to 4k, there is a slight booming sound in the cabin when you open the windows. It is more noticable on

service streets driving. Highway driving is perfect though.

Other than that, it is exactly what I was look for. To justify the cost of the unit, it is like shopping for speakers

of a stereo. They make all the difference of a stereo. All in all, it IS the right exhaust for me.

I've had the GruppeM V2 exhaust on my car since last Spring-- according to Alex I was the 2nd person in the

US to buy one! I have also heard the Taitec center exit exhaust in person as well. My feeling is at idle and low

rpm's, the Taitec sounds slightly better. But at higher rpm's, the GruppeM is much better sounding-- it's both higher

pitched and louder. Free-reving the GruppeM in my garage it sound absolutely incredable if you stand back behind the

car. Also when deaccelerating it makes a really cool noise similar to the description of the Tubi exhaust above.

And when paired up with the GruppeM intake, it sounds even better!

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1995&highlight=GruppeM

GruppeM V2 exhaust ... is higher pitched and sharper sounding than all the others I've heard. When I passed

my brother at full throttle recently, he said it sounded almost like a high reving Japanese motorcycle but with a

slightly lower pitch.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4055&highlight=GruppeM

The GruppeM exhaust is the closest to the high-pitched F1 sound that you are looking for. No

other exhaust comes close.( I have heard just about every exhaust out there as well as having trying on 5 different

exhausts).

Disclaimer: I have the GruppeM Version 2 on my NSX and we are also vendors for the GruppeM exhaust.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24083&highlight=GruppeM

I vote for GruppeM! It shreeeeks like mad at high rpms. Very cool sounding and very loud.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23149&highlight=GruppeM

I have the GruppeM (v2) on my X and to my ears it sounds very close to the F360. (Though it does not sound

as good as the F355.) At low accelleration (just putting-around town) it is not very loud outside, though there is a

fair amount of resonance in the cabin. However, when you accellerate hard it sounds very close to the 360,

especially between 3500 and 5000 rpm.

nothing beats the sound of the GM exhaust, especially at the top end. The high pitched shriek is

like no other exhaust. Only thing is the GM needs to have the Cats removed when installed.

Gruppe M vs. Taitec Parallel Exhausts

First thing that you need to know is that GM only directly bolt on to 91-94 cars.

The exhaust sound is very subjective. If you like an aggressive higher pitch sound and a low idling noise level, then

GM may fit that requirement. It only weight 20lbs including the y-pipe that replaces both cats. You can't run it with

cats though.

Don't forget an aggressive exhaust almost always comes with cabin droning. So if it is your daily driver, you may

look for one that is easier to live with.

Hehe, I saw the title of the thread, and thought.., how perfect, my favoriate topic.

I loved the Taitec when it was new, as time goes by, the low throaty sound became hard to bear on long drives because

of the cabin drone that it creates. The low throaty sound becomes a great scream pass 5k+ RPM, and that is music to

my ear, especially in a tunnel.

In comparison, the GM is so much easier to live with at the low RPM. There is no cabin drone and barely any exhaust

note at cruising speed. The distinctive tone comes on when you get on the paddle. The unmistakable high pitched

scream at 5k+ RPM is orgasmic. IMO, is the closest sound to a Fcar that alot of people are looking for in a Tubi.

(Tubi is also very nice, ALOT easier to live with in terms of loudness compare to both above).

Between CDUB and myself, I think we're lucky enough to have heard most of the popular ones in person, Anytime, GM v2,

GM v3, Tubi, Taitec JGTC, Taitec lightweight, Taitec GT, Comptech, RSR, Flowmaster, ARC. I would say that GM is the

best sounding at the high end, and easy to live with on the low end. In a tunnel at 7k+ RPM, the Taitec will alert

EVERYONE to get outta the way as you fly by. With the GM in the same setting, it WILL hurt your ears and make the

hair on back of you neck stand up! But I can assure you that you will ask for more!

I won't comment on price or whether one is worth it or not. I think that is up to the individual to decide. Highly

recommend to hear them in person to decide. I do have some sound/media files, if someone wants to host them, I'll be

happy to share.

It is amazing how GM can tune the V3 to sound so much like the V2 with a 10lbs difference and a pair of

different canisters.

The sound characteristic of both versions are very complex. The sound of the exhaust during idle, acceleration and

deceleration are distinctively different. The tone of the V2 tend to be a little fuller and smoother and the V3 is

sharper and slightly less bass. Personally, I like the V2 better

Weight - V3 all the way. Although the V2 is already light, but the V2 is even lighter by close to 10lbs.

tips - V2 has the quad tips and the V3 has the dual oval tips. I like the quad tips more.

Either one you get, you can't go wrong, unless you want a quiet exhaust.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1679&highlight=GruppeM

The Gruppe M is different: At mid-range rpm it produces a shrill, shreaking tone remanicant of a F355.

Above 3500 rpm the Gruppe M exhaust's tone switches to a high pitched "shreak". The exhaust definitely adds

a higher pitched roar that previously wasn't present

My and Alex were watching Jay yoyoing up and down the street at near red line and the high pitch sound

matches every bit as high as the price tag of this unit. Workmanship is top notch.

Then Alex and I drove the car a little or I should say a lot. There is no boomy sound at any RPM. You can cruise in

the car for hours without getting sick of the sound. I believe Jay has the factory air box. With that, you can throw

away all those defective Bose amps out the windows when they go bad and just listen to the songs from the engine.

By far, this is the best sounding system I have ever heard on an NSX. Although I have not heard the Taitec unit, but

I have heard the RM, CT, RSR, Phase, HKS, DC Sports and a couple of other brands. Of course this is my own opinion.

Your mileage may vary.

--------------------------------
Fitment issues:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27497&highlight=GruppeM

the GruppeM exhaust that has a tendency to hang towards the driver side.

I just installed my Gruppe M and I'm having fitment/allignment problems where its burnt my rear valance



Other than that I've been very happy I got 16RWHP which is more than I expected. Oh yeah 3000RPM drone is shocking at

times.

GruppeM V2 Exhaust Review

the Gruppe M V2 exhaust shifted to the drivers side on Jay Hong's car also. He said that he was going to have Alex V. look at it and try to adjust it.

 

[CDub]

Drew, welcome to the GM gang. Now I know that there are at least 3 GM v2 in LA/OC area.

If it is your joy ride car, you'll love this exhaust. If you like driving an GM equipped NSX, you should really experience it from the outside. Have someone drive it and you drive half a car length behind on the next lane. You'll know what I mean. Rev'ing the engine in parking lots just doesn't do justice to the exhaust.

BTW, you did a great job collecting all the GM comments on Prime. :smile: I'm embarrass that I don't even know what I was trying to say half of the time. :redface:

Enjoy the exhaust!

 

[SilverOne]

an entire thread dedicated to GM Exhaust! Very cool.

Congrats on the acquisition. You'll find yourself wanting to keep the car in the 4k to 5k rpm range for that scream.

 

[Veleno]

FYI...the GM V3 doesn't have any alignment issues, at least not with mine. It sits perfectly where it should.

Welcome to the GM Club!

 

[CDub]

FYI...the GM V3 doesn't have any alignment issues, at least not with mine. It sits perfectly where it should.

My previous GM v3 had the same problem like the v2. My DC Sport headers might have been part of the problem. The oval tips on the v3, while crooked, still didn't touch the valance because it is not as wide as the quad tips on the v2.

 

[SilverOne]

On the left side, my GMv3 melt through the bottom of the valence. It left a half dollar size hole in the valence. I'd imagine that's from the exhaust being too close?