Future NSX

[Justin664]

This link has some prognostications on the Japanese manufacturers. The Acura entry will be of particular interest.
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=&content_code=03149230

 

[TypeFast NSX]

Nice links! I look forward to what we have to choose from next

 

[NetViper]

Well, the the RL is going to get a 3.8L V6, that will probably be the same engine as in the NSX. So 3.8L at 90HP/L = 342 HP. That is not NEAR enough to compete in a world of 500HP vipers and 405HP Zo6's.

I cannot understand how acura can say they expect the NSX to be competitive with a few minor tweaks??

 

[Zuerst]

Or maybe the tweaked 3.8L V6 at 120hp per liter like the S2000 producing around 460HP.

 

[NSXTC]

Im sorry to say, but I believe that Honda/Acura's top Japanese and American executives are out of touch on both counts (Id be happy to occupy a board position and set things straight):

RL: Forget the talk about a rear-drive V-8 flagship. Acura's top Japanese and American executives say the audience for rwd is too small, and they have no intention of producing a V-8. The redesigned 2004 RL likely will be fwd or awd and powered by a 3.8-liter V-6 mated to a five-speed automatic.

NSX: Honda believes the two-passenger, mid-engine sports car can remain competitive with minor tweaks over the coming years.

 

[Justin664]

Unless the "minor tweak" is at least another 100HP, I just don't see sales of the NSX improving. I guess that if Honda truly considers it their "halo car", the sales numbers won't matter. I would hate to see the NSX die a long, slow, whimpering death...

 

[Tom Larkins]

Minor tweak = political way to understate true intentions. Honda has never been one to show its real hand.

Whenever I read a thread like this or similar content about the nex gen NSX, I always remember what the company is doing w/R & D in the racing world. Honda isn't leaving it, its stepping up. If the NSX dies, IMO its a huge mistake, on the other hand I see whats going on w/the Honda IRL engine program and them staying in F1 w/BAR. It gives me an indication that they are still in the game and you have to have a car to market and it surely isn't an RSX or RL. Call me an optimist.

 

[Auraraptor]

Originally posted by Tom Larkins:
Minor tweak = political way to understate true intentions. Honda has never been one to show its real hand.

Whenever I read a thread like this or similar content about the nex gen NSX, I always remember what the company is doing w/R & D in the racing world. Honda isn't leaving it, its stepping up. If the NSX dies, IMO its a huge mistake, on the other hand I see whats going on w/the Honda IRL engine program and them staying in F1 w/BAR. It gives me an indication that they are still in the game and you have to have a car to market and it surely isn't an RSX or RL. Call me an optimist.

I pray you are right...fear you are not...but my investment in the garage says you should be wrong

(...resale if the nsx dies)

hehe

seriously though, why doenst honda make a s2000 engine and add 2 clinders by expanding the block...making a 3L V6...it should fit into the Nex no prob...and hopefully push 240+120-360hp..(though the titanium rods should stay

)which wouldnt be all that bad..and it shouldnt cost an arm or a leg as the parts are mostly there...

[This message has been edited by Auraraptor (edited 13 October 2002).]

 

[Justin664]

I think that combining 2 F20C heads around a common crank and bottom end would work nicely. I don't know the dimensions of the S2000 and NSX engine, but I can't imagine that the 4.0 V8 built from 2 S2000 engines would be that much larger than the current V6. If Honda could obtain the 100hp/litre target, they would have quite a nice little engine. Imagine if they could hit 120hp/litre!

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by Auraraptor:
(...resale if the nsx dies)

If the NSX dies, it would be enteresting to see what it does to the re-sale market. I think that would be un-charted territory w/a Honda product possibly.

As for adding additional cylinders; if they are heading in the direction of a motor based on a current platform established in F1 or the IRL. The # of cylinders won't matter as long as it meets the rules on liters. Either way, any motor based off those two racing platforms can push ungodly HP. I don't suspect anyone here cares aslong as its a large increase over what we have now. Another thing to consider is its cost and thats why I believe a new motor if produced is based on one of the motors. My bet is in the 3.6L IRL engine that is already being tested for use in 03.

 

[Justin664]

The 3.6 is the IRL engine? It seems that they are moving to 3.8 version of that engine as indicated in the article. I would guess they would use a longer stroke to get the larger displacement. The stroke on the IRL or F1 engines would have to be shorter given the astronomical RPMs they produce. A 3.8 with i-VTEC should be able to produce 100hp/litre, giving us 380hp. Even better would be the 120hp/litre.

 

[Dr.Honda]

The main question is 3.4 or 3.8? Honda could take the easiest route and simply shoehorn the 3.4 with iVTEC into the existing car. Probably would approach 340 hp. I think they would have to do a serious redesign to fit a 3.8 or larger into the NSX.
Also they have previously shared the TL's powerplant and not the RL's. If they could get the weight down 300-400 lbs these "minor tweaks" might be adequate. I hoping for more, but I'm glad thay aren't saying that they are going to kill the car period.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by JimK:
Also they have previously shared the TL's powerplant and not the RL's.

No, they haven't. The NSX engine is specific to the NSX. It is not a variant of the TL engine, nor vice versa.

 

[RaptorX]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
No, they haven't. The NSX engine is specific to the NSX. It is not a variant of the TL engine, nor vice versa.

Don't crucify me if I'm wrong, but I heard the NSX engine was somewhat similar to the Prelude's(?). Again, I don't know a great deal about engines, it's just something I remember hearing. Any clarification would be appreciated.

 

[Jimbo]

The NSX engine was originally similar to V6 used in the 1st gen Legend. In fact, the early NSX test mules used modified Legend V6s without the VTEC enhancements.

Don't count on the IRL engine ever being used in a production car.

I think the best we can expect is the new 3.5 L, DOHC VTEC engine slated for the D-NX. According to Honda, it's tuned to produce 300 HP in the D-NX. With some additional performance tweaking suitable for a sports car and not a sporty sedan, it might see an additional 30-50 or so HP.

A 3.5 L, 350 HP V6 might not be too bad.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I can't tell you the number of people that have said they have the same engine in thier Legend/CL. I guess because it has the same displacement they automatically think they have an NSX engine. I tried telling them the error of their ways but got tired of trying to convince them of it. Now I just say 'Really, wow that is neat'.


------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by Jimbo:


A 3.5 L, 350 HP V6 might not be too bad.

I am going to have to disagree with you Jim. It won't be long before a standard carrera makes that much power. The Z06 has 405, 360 Modena makes 400, new baby lambo aound 500, 911 Turbo 420, Maserati makes 385, Lotus V8 TT 350, old viper 450, new viper 500.

The next NSX MUST have over 400HP or it will be laughed at IMO. Now, if they take that DNX engine and slap on some twin turbo's, we could be in business

A 3.5 L engine with TT pushing 450 HP works for me

[This message has been edited by NetViper (edited 14 October 2002).]

 

[Jimbo]

I can't tell you the number of people that have said they have the same engine in thier Legend

Well, in some way they do have the same basic engine family. The NSX engine was based on the V6 from the early Legend and was not an entirely new design.

Power, features, are of course much different.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
Don't count on the IRL engine ever being used in a production car.

Why not ?

Wishful thinking (IRL), even more so w/FI power plant, maybe. I'm only drawn to this opinion b/c of past marketing done when the 1st NSX was being planned. I know Toyota/Nissian doesn't have the same type of design aspects in comparison to the NSX model in terms of a super sports car or what ever you want to call it. No offence to the Celica or new Z, but if you want to make a statement, one of those 2 power plants I mentioned as a basis is the way to go as it sets apart from the other guys like it did in 91. Regardless of the engineering aspects w/liter size (etc). It still holds true, if you win on Sunday, it can sell on the showroom on Monday, providing it delivers. For one, I can't see a next gen NSX sharing a motor w/a RL unless racing technology is brought into the picture. No hybrid flames please.

 

[Jimbo]

NetViper,

Don't get me wrong. I'd much rather see the next NSX have a 4.4-4.8L i-VTEC V8 with 400+ HP.

But considering that the current car has been living with 290HP for some 6-7 years now, a 60HP increase would certainly be significant.
And let's also consider that 3rd party forced induction systems should easily net 400+ HP.

Of course, Honda could also do their own forced induction 3.5 i-VTEC V6 too...

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[Jimbo]

Tom,

Why not?

Of course, all this is speculative, but I don't see Honda using the IRL engine because...

1. Design issues.

Production engines are designed for the rigors of passenger car driving. 100K+ miles. There are all sorts of design differences that would cause problems. Mounting problems, ancillary equipment (oiling, pumps, intake), etc. The IRL engines are highly optimized for weight and racing conditions.

2. Tooling/Materials

Race engines are produced in very small numbers. Tooling is substantially different.

3. Emissions, Warranty concerns, etc.

Now, Honda might take what they've learned in the design of their IRL and other race engines, and apply or adapt that to a production engine, but I just don't see Honda ever using an actual race engine/block (with changes) for a production vehicle.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
Race engines are produced in very small numbers.

Jim, Thats OK, Honda can't sell more than 200 NSX's a year anyway

[This message has been edited by NetViper (edited 14 October 2002).]

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
Tom,

Now, Honda might take what they've learned in the design of their IRL and other race engines, and apply or adapt that to a production engine, but I just don't see Honda ever using an actual race engine/block (with changes) for a production vehicle.

-Jim

Thats what i'm thinking as well. Your right about the other factors your mentioned, it is impossible. If I remember correctly, Acura made quite a big deal in advertising w/F1 and the tech. used in the engine we have now. Big sales in the 91 & 92, much they way BMW tried w/the M3. Last car show I went to, BMW had several big screens going w/the F1 cars running, showing off the comparisons, or the "image" if you will. If we do get a better NSX, I just can't see it having a good reaction for any potential buyer if the image perceived is one of lacking race engineered components. A de-tuned V8 works for me and they could do it if they want too. I read off-topic about a 350Z for the ALMS series, I don't think Nissian would mention this if factual, w/o thought of upping Acura. I just wish for once Acura would let us know whats going on!!!!

 

[Marvin Lee]

Personally, I think the Acura division are a bunch of boneheads. Remember the Legend? It was doing quite well and in coupe form was one of the few designs that looked both sporty and stately. (I still love that 94 black coupe my neighbor had.) But then they gave it that RL name and it has suffered and is wither on the vine to a sure death. You can't give them credit for the NSX either because it is only an Acura because of it's higher cost. With that in mind I see Acura screwing up anything NSXish on these shores. Enjoy guys you're driving a future classic with no off spring.