Future career help: E.E. vs LAW

[GQ NSX]

Guys I've got quite the dilemna here, and I need a place to talk and get advice because my parents are being somewhat one-sided.

I'm set up and already registered for classes as an Electrical Engineer in the Honors program at a local private university. It is ranked 8th in the US for EE according to magazine rankings.

Here is the thing...I've been debating for years now, literally in speech and debate, team captain and all. I've always had this inclination towards law but I've also always wanted to do something in the electronics/ computer industry. Something about innovation just inspires me.

I guess what I'm asking here is about lifestyles...and money. Both fields interest me, equally. I don't know what to do..do I switch to Law?

Either way, if its Electrical Engineering or even if it is Law, I plan on attending some Ivy League school for the graduate degree.
I know it's competitive, but honestly even right out of high school (just graduated) I had the shot at some Ivy's. So thats no prob (lets not consider that). If I do stick with engineering, the plan is to get an MBA at some Ivy.

What I need from you guys is some guidance..We all know that engineers (especially job-less ones) are a dime a dozen now. The same seems to hold true for bar exam passing lawyers. So where do I go? What do I do?

I just graduated high school this year, and have had my plan set to be an engineer for a very long time now. However after college orientation, I got to see the people that I would be studying with :: the definition of nerds folks:: and their book smarts. It seriously got me fumed because I'm not just a book smart guy..I'm more street smart but just like anyone else I have the ability to learn. I just don't think I match the mold. LOL I was like one of those Cool Nerds!

I'm so confused..and I know that the people you study with is such a subjective thing..

Guys please help me get back on track with some serious advice and objectivity.

Much respect

ravi

 

[D'Ecosse]

You'll make more money in law!
How about best of both worlds? Be a technical patent lawyer.
I worked with a colleague who was an extremely respected technologist in the semiconductor equipment field - we worked together at a company called Novellus Systems - well, he continued his education part time & qualified to enter law as a full time career. He is a rare asset, a lawyer with a technical degree: he could literally write his own ticket, very valuable commodity!
Worth thinking about - you can fulfill both your ambitions & possibly the perfect vocation. It depends on how much school you can tolerate & over what period you are willing to commit.
Marketing is another way you can express some of those same traits you enjoy & still enjoy a valuable technical contribution. Start with a technical degree & follow it with an MBA.
Good luck with your choices - sounds like you can't go wrong whatever you choose.

 

[WeakestLink]

Relax. If you're just starting college, you probably don't need to worry about what type of graduate degree to obtain. If you major in EE in undergrad, you can easily transition to either a JD or an MBA program, or do both with a JD/MBA. In fact, most grad programs prefer to admit students with varied backgrounds. In other words, poli sci is not necessarily the best undergrad major for those wants JDs. And business isn't necessarily the best major for those wanting MBAs. EE is actually a very useful background no matter what you decide to do. As the previous post explained, you could apply an EE background in law as a patent lawyer...or as an attorney working for a highly technical company. The same holds true for business.

Engineering backgrounds also train you to think through a structured and logical process. And that can help you in any job. (except the arts) Good luck and study hard.

 

[gheba_nsx]

There is no magic receipt or path to follow to "make money" today... if it would be that easy everybody would go for it.

Choose what you are more skilled and you like more doing. University is something that will require a lot of work and some sacrifice... doing something you are not 100% sure only because of some future (maybe?) monetary advantage it is not advisable.

Luck also play a big factor at the end. I finisced my Master in Comp Science Eng. in 1999. If I finished two years before I would have joined the IT boom party at his best moment and my salary would be about 25%-50% more than it is now.
If I joined the IT world last year I would be unemployed (at least here in Switzerland)...

 

[hyuan]

You'll make more money in law!
How about best of both worlds? Be a technical patent lawyer.

This is not necessarily true. It really depends on what area of law you specialize in and where you are employed. From what I've seen, some engineers in the Silicon Valley do make more money than some lawyers. When I researched this issue at Salary.com a couple months back (numbers could be off), a level 1 attorney in my area (1-3 years) makes around 75K, a level 2 attorney (3-5 years) makes about 85K. I also know guys that specialized in patent law that made over 200K within the first couple of years as well. Most folks I know who were employed after receiving an MBA made over 100K starting (presumably from a top 20 school). So, as you can see, it really depends.

There is also a quality of life issue here that could be argued. Some lawyers that I know, particularly those in corporate and patent law work like demons. They rarely have time to sleep. What's the point of money if you have no time to spend it? As an engineer myself, I have also had to work many hours in stints. Sometimes 7 days a week for a couple of months on end working 16 hour days... Unless you are self-employed, high paying jobs will require you to work longer hours in general.

The most important thing I could advise you is to disregard the money. Pursue the career path that is best suited to your interests and your abilities. The money will naturally follow.

A couple of years back during the dot-com boom, engineering, particularly (Computer Science and its derivatives) were very popular; enrollments were at an all time high. Being a lecturer, I was exposed to a great variety of students of varying abilities and interests levels. Many students were simply in it for the money.

Now that the dot-com boom is over, many of those same folks were the first to be laid off. Those same folks who were simply in it for the money never achieved the same level of success as those engineers who were their because they enjoyed their work. To be the very best, you have to love what you do. If you don't, you won't be able to compete against those who truly do.

Pursuing the money train does not translate into happiness, but pursuing what makes you happy may very well leave you with money to spend.

 

[RSO 34]

Get the EE degree as an undergrad and take the LSAT in your junior year to keep open all your options. I made the "mistake" of majoring in poli sci and history as an undergrad because I thought that would be good for law school. I hated both and was more interested in engineering and english but I had always intended to go to law school and thought that was the right "path."

Looking back on it, I would have done things a little differently and gone with majors I actually had an interest in. Your major essentially is meaningless in law school as long as your GPA and LSAT's are high.

No matter what, continue with the debating in college and take a lot of English courses with writing requirements because your speaking and writing skills will get you through law school much easier than a degree in poli sci. My college debate experiences gained me much more notice on law school applications than my majors did.

In terms of money, everything is relative. I started out making less money and having more debt after graduating law school than while in college. If money is all you want, get a union job as an electrician and put in a lot of OT. Otherwise, be prepared to pay your dues in any profession and bust your butt to work your way up in whatever company you choose to join.

Lawyers are a dime a dozen but good lawyers continue to be a rare breed. No matter what you do, take pride in your job and be the best that you can at it. Comedian Dennis Miller once did a routine that included commentary on fast food workers and the posting of a photo of the employee of the month on the premises. He pointed out that rather than looking down on the person who is cleaning out those restrooms for you to use, you should congratulate that minimum wage employee who cared enough about his duties of cleaning toilets and mopping floors to be recognized as the employee of the month.

Now it's time for me to get off my soapbox and get into the NSX to head up to Kids' Day at Watkins Glen. Work hard, be honest and take pride in your job but also remember the other things that are important in life.

Bob

 

[TigerNSX]

I have been in school way too long to answer some of the questions. However, it will always be up to you at the end.

Whatever you decide, you should only focus on your GPA right now and doing well in school.

 

[TigerNSX]

Get the EE degree as an undergrad and take the LSAT in your junior year to keep open all your options. I made the "mistake" of majoring in poli sci and history as an undergrad because I thought that would be good for law school. I hated both and was more interested in engineering and english but I had always intended to go to law school and thought that was the right "path."

Looking back on it, I would have done things a little differently and gone with majors I actually had an interest in. Your major essentially is meaningless in law school as long as your GPA and LSAT's are high.

No matter what, continue with the debating in college and take a lot of English courses with writing requirements because your speaking and writing skills will get you through law school much easier than a degree in poli sci. My college debate experiences gained me much more notice on law school applications than my majors did.

In terms of money, everything is relative. I started out making less money and having more debt after graduating law school than while in college. If money is all you want, get a union job as an electrician and put in a lot of OT. Otherwise, be prepared to pay your dues in any profession and bust your butt to work your way up in whatever company you choose to join.

Lawyers are a dime a dozen but good lawyers continue to be a rare breed. No matter what you do, take pride in your job and be the best that you can at it. Comedian Dennis Miller once did a routine that included commentary on fast food workers and the posting of a photo of the employee of the month on the premises. He pointed out that rather than looking down on the person who is cleaning out those restrooms for you to use, you should congratulate that minimum wage employee who cared enough about his duties of cleaning toilets and mopping floors to be recognized as the employee of the month.

Now it's time for me to get off my soapbox and get into the NSX to head up to Kids' Day at Watkins Glen. Work hard, be honest and take pride in your job but also remember the other things that are important in life.

Bob

Well stated... just like a summary brief of a case..

 

[RyRy210]

Also, with law you also have an easier opportunity to be your own boss and open your own practice.

My friend opened his own practice and pays himself $800K/year. He has other attorneys working for him as well. Kinda like a small law firm where he is the managing partner.

My son got a JD/MBA degree from Yale, and decided not to take the bar. He instead took a job from Goldman Sachs as an M&A consultant. He tells me the JD was something they were looking for.

You don't have to get a JD and become a lawyer. Actually, I know alot of people who have a JD that ended up not taking the bar exam. Having a JD still opens alot of doors even if u don't take the bar.

 

[GQ NSX]

i c

Ok, well a lot of good responses.


I want to just reiterate that I am very passionate about both fields, which is why I'm having so much trouble. Money is not the biggest issue but I won't lie--it definitely is a perk.

I'm fairly certain I'm going to stick with engineering and get that mba..I just can't stand to be a "Dilbert" my whole life. I'll put in the effort, but I really do need some sort of managing job.

Law still is intriguing, I'll have to check out that patent thing.

One question: what does JD stand for? (judicial degree?)

Your guys' opinions and thoughts are very much appreciated. I'm motivated, and getting help from a successful crowd is a help (driving nsxs, you must be successul imo). My parents are self employed, so I see their lifestyle. It truly has been an influence.

Keep the info coming

regards,

ravi

 

[RyRy210]

Re: i c

One question: what does JD stand for? (judicial degree?)

Juris Doctor

 

[whiteNSXs]

I think you should choose the field you are most interested in. Different people have different attributes they can utilize. I wish I had that stunning good look like Brad Pitt, so I could do what he does. Then again, if I looked just like him, I WILL be Brad Pitt himself!
As an immigrant to this country 20 years ago at age 18, I was limited in language skill, connections, friends, and the financial supports. I turned out choosing the field that gives me reasonably good income but not truly the most interested field much less a good life style. I put in at least 60 hours a week and sometimes 80 hours. A lot of times I wonder if I should have been a little more adventurous and pursued something else. Since you are so young and just started, it will be a good idea to diversify the classes that you take to expose yourself in different fields. Perhaps taking some internship and volunteer jobs too.
Good luck.
Steve

 

[kenjiMR]

Re: i c

Do you live near University of the Pacfic? I have a buddy who is EE there and works for Lawrence Livermore labs. I think he sees your NSX from time to time. You may even know him if you attend that school.

Ok, well a lot of good responses.


I want to just reiterate that I am very passionate about both fields, which is why I'm having so much trouble. Money is not the biggest issue but I won't lie--it definitely is a perk.

I'm fairly certain I'm going to stick with engineering and get that mba..I just can't stand to be a "Dilbert" my whole life. I'll put in the effort, but I really do need some sort of managing job.

Law still is intriguing, I'll have to check out that patent thing.

One question: what does JD stand for? (judicial degree?)

Your guys' opinions and thoughts are very much appreciated. I'm motivated, and getting help from a successful crowd is a help (driving nsxs, you must be successul imo). My parents are self employed, so I see their lifestyle. It truly has been an influence.

Keep the info coming

regards,

ravi

 

[hejo]

First pursue your passion, not your parents. Be passionate about what you do, whatever that may be. Life has many rewards, money is only one.

I have an engineering degree, held many positions outside of engineering and am now a business general manager.

Here's some facts. If you pursue an undergraduate degree in engineering ... you WILL work your butt off. Just because you did well on the SAT and graduated top of your class don't underestimate how difficult it is to get a degree from a top engineering school. Everyone else scored 1570+ and was also a top student. Don't sign up for it unless you're really willing to put in the time and effort required. If you want to party and screw off let me save you some time and money. Don't pursue an engineering degree.

Here's typically what happens. These are actual #s from when I went to school 20+ years ago and they are still holding true with my son who pursuing his engineering degree. Freshman year 200 students were in the class. By mid-year only 150 were still in the program and by the end of the 1st year only 100. Sophmore year started with 100 the class, mid-year down to 75 and the year exited with 50. The 50 remaining received their engineering degrees. Of the 50, 35 did it in 4 years, the other 15 required 5 years to graduate.

You will have limited exposure to things outside of engineering. There isn't a lot of extra time so you will have to force it. This also makes it hard. Taking a full engineering load and trying to throw in some courses outside of the flow is just plan hard.

Sorry to be so direct but it's the best advice I can give you. If you're really not passionate enough about engineering, the odds are you won't make it. If you're more worried about how you're viewed by others and let this influence your decision then you're going to make the wrong decision. Do what you heart tells you and the rest will happen. If you look at the people who have been successful and are truely happy in life, pursued their passions, not money.

 

[GQ NSX]

hey

Thanks guys, awesome words.

KENJI, actually I'm going to be attending University of the Pacific for EE. Small world, I'm a freshman this year. That NSX is not mine, it is Vaughn's. I'm still looking for one for myself.

If you can give me some info about him, I'll get in touch with him.

peace guys,
much respect- ravi

 

[gheba_nsx]

First pursue your passion, not your parents. Be passionate about what you do, whatever that may be. Life has many rewards, money is only one.
...

Hejo, well stated! Exactely my points... and having a NSX during my Engineering years would not have been a very good choice looking at a study/work point of view.

STOCKTONSX, wait until you are finished before buying one. I know it is difficult but...