Fuel cell powered race cars... future?

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There is an article on CNET today touting an effort to develop fuel cell powered open wheel cars, with aspirations to eventually have the engineering enable them to make a viable competitive sell to the ranks of F1 by 2015 (right....)

http://news.com.com/2300-11389_3-6108133-1.html

Is it just me, or do you think this type of effort is just doomed from the start for at least initially many years to come? F1 running around with a bank full of capacitors instead of 19KRPM engines by 2015? Come on, who at that company really thinks that is going to happen regardless of what hydrodynamics problems they think they have solved? Designing a 500lb go cart is one thing, and a 1500lbs competitive F1 car is entirely different because of the sheer platform weight alone, let alone maintainance when you find yourself needing a quick 11 milion dollar battery change-out in the pits because of charging issues.

Even if they did, can you imagine watching an F1 race as the cars zoom by without much more than a wisper of air disruption and the annoying hum of an electric motor? A dead silent event where you can talk to the pal next to you... with little excitment past the occasional pit stop to empty their water accumulators, or perhaps the occasional pile-up and accidental resulting hydrogen explosion.

Just think about being at a race.. watching race cars go round and round without sound, now that has to reduce the fun factor of the sport by an unimaginable magnitude, and what is to replace it? Music blaring from the RV next to you at the race? Conversation about what racing used to be?

Everything else non-withstanding if today's race car drivers & teams are their eventual customers, then I hope they and their investors aren't looking for an eventual fiscal payoff from this effort. While I do believe that modern engines will eventually subside to electric... it's not going to happen over night... and I don't know a pro race car driver that cares to accomodate the environmental save-the-world perception by exchanging minimal reduced emissions for giving up their very passion.

As a product, their are obviously going to be a lot of downsides and initial resistance... so unless these things move like the Pod racers from star wars with dual 70,000 pounds of thrust or like a controllable rocket sled, and can be engineered to be truely collision safe... while maintaining an equal or greater fun factor.. my initial reaction having not driven one to date would of course be umm... that's great but I think I'll be in the GT3RS today...
 
i was at the mini-formula competition sponsered by ASME (american society of mechancial engineers) this past may. competition was for colleges who built scaled down versions of f1 cars with 600cc bike engines to compete in a bunch of events.

with the size and weight of the cars, there was no way to get an electric hybrid to the competitive scale. one team had a gas-electric hybrid. gas powered engine ran generators, stored power in capacitor banks (rediculous power levels, but i don't exactly remember), which powered an electric motor. there was no way that thing would have competed. it's capacitor banks were exposed, and the car weighted twice what other cars weighed...(1000lbs vs 500lbs) let alone the concept of driving in the rain or on a slick track...the torque from that 100hp electric motor would have been completely uncontrollable, even in the dry with full slicks.

now scale this up to a 1500lb f1 car...make that more along the lines of 3000lb....and the competitive factor would be...almost large steps behind what is active today in f1. of course technological developments will make the cars lighter than waht is capable by college teams looking to make budget race cars...but honestly, i don't see it being feasible...maybe in a side purely technological experiment, but not as 'mainstream' as f1...i know at least the next generation of engineers (myself included as i'm 21 and graduating this year) still looks towards f1 as it is now as the ultimate in race technology.

hybrids/electrics are nice...but they just dont' float my boat, and i'm sure many others would agree..
 
John@Microsoft said:
There is an article on CNET today touting an effort to develop fuel cell powered open wheel cars, with aspirations to eventually have the engineering enable them to make a viable competitive sell to the ranks of F1 by 2015 (right....)

http://news.com.com/2300-11389_3-6108133-1.html

Is it just me, or do you think this type of effort is just doomed from the start for at least initially many years to come? F1 running around with a bank full of capacitors instead of 19KRPM engines by 2015? Come on, who at that company really thinks that is going to happen regardless of what hydrodynamics problems they think they have solved? Designing a 500lb go cart is one thing, and a 1500lbs competitive F1 car is entirely different because of the sheer platform weight alone, let alone maintainance when you find yourself needing a quick 11 milion dollar battery change-out in the pits because of charging issues.

Even if they did, can you imagine watching an F1 race as the cars zoom by without much more than a wisper of air disruption and the annoying hum of an electric motor? A dead silent event where you can talk to the pal next to you... with little excitment past the occasional pit stop to empty their water accumulators, or perhaps the occasional pile-up and accidental resulting hydrogen explosion.

Just think about being at a race.. watching race cars go round and round without sound, now that has to reduce the fun factor of the sport by an unimaginable magnitude, and what is to replace it? Music blaring from the RV next to you at the race? Conversation about what racing used to be?...

Lol... John.. John.. John... That is classic! :biggrin: I wonder if people were standing around at the horse racing saying the same thing about the "horseless carriage" when it was invented....

You could see them standing around saying: "could you imagine watching a race between those noisy smelly contraptions... Never! Will never happen..." Now look where we are... lol

broinkrist said:
...i know at least the next generation of engineers (myself included as i'm 21 and graduating this year) still looks towards f1 as it is now as the ultimate in race technology.

hybrids/electrics are nice...but they just dont' float my boat, and i'm sure many others would agree..

I can understand John's rant because he's an old b*stard... :biggrin:

But you are the next generation... Your supposed to have a different perspective! I remember when Jim said to Scotty about the Excelsior... "Come now Scotty... Young minds.. Fresh ideas!..."

Was Captain Kirk wrong??? :eek: Or could you be one of the new generation that listen to Michael Buble and don't know who Sinatra was... :biggrin: j/k

Let me take you back to the days when Coultard was a tester for Williams... Williams invented a continuously variable gearbox... Anyway, the car had no gears and it had the same RPM no matter how fast it was going...

David said it was really weird to drive but it was much much faster than a F1 car with gears because the whole engine and everything could be designed for the rpm that produced the peak power/torque and the car was ALWAYS in the sweet spot

It was really weird to watch and hear... Imagine a F1 car and not changing gears and no change in RPM (almost like an electric motor :wink: ) but in the end FIA banned it before it got to actually race....

F1 will always showcase the ultimate in race technology available that falls within the FIA's regulations...
 
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