Formula SAE Competition

[syam]

i was wondering how many of you have in the past, or currently are working on a Formula SAE car. Our car is nearing completion and it would be interesting to see what other kind of people have been involved in this undertaking.

our team is about 7 members, and a rookie team, but our car will be ready for competition, and should perform quite well. when the car is completed, i will upload some pictures and more stats on it. we're also thinking of setting up some autocross events for ourselves and columbia's fsae team, so i'm wondering if there would be any interest out in the nsx community to see these cars in action. (in the nyc area of course).

For those interested, the car was designed and is being fabricated by a small team of us and is as follows:
-tubular frame made from 4130 chrome moly MR chassis setup
-SLA double A-Arm suspension setup with pushrod actuated springs/dampers
-Honda CBR-600 F4i Engine with restriction and custom ECU (MegaSquirt) for fuel and spark tuning.
(should make about 70whp)
-Engine mated to a 6 speed sequential Transmission will be paddle shifting with a clutch pedal
-Transmission mated to a Limited Slip Differential
-Car should weigh in about about 600lbs wet with a 0-60 time of about 4s and skidpad values upwards of 1.3g's

fyi. general information:
nsx: ~250rwhp at ~3200lbs resulting in a power to weight ratio of 0.078hp/lb or inversely 12.82lb/hp
cu fsae car: ~70rwhp at ~600lbs resulting in a power to weight ratio of 0.117hp/lb or inversely 8.57lb/hp


and i know peak rwhp numbers are basically meaningless without a meaningful torque distribution, but it gives you a general idea of how fast the car can be with the right driver, and under a dictated speed of course (max speed at 14500 redline of the engine will be roughly 110 with the adjusted gear ratios).

shiann.
senior mechanical engineer undergrad
the cooper union

 

[NSXT]

Was out autocrossing with the UNM FSAE team last weekend, fun little car. I don't know many details about the car design, as we were focused on training the drivers. Couple of things I recall:

With the restrictor, power output flattens above 11500 rpm.

Car is traction limited, already have plenty of power.

A large effort has been put into engineering the car, hunting for theoretical optimums, while very little effort put into driver training. IMO, this is a problem with the FSAE competition concept. You can have an amazing car, but in the hands of a crappy driver, so what? You can also have a crappy car which will do quite well when put in the hands of a capable driver.

That's why we were out training drivers. Most noticeable was that they frequently shifted, trying to keep the engine in the sweet spot. It was a great wakeup when we told them to leave it in 3rd, focus on the course and feel the suspension. They did much better when they concentrated on throttle, steering, braking and roll, instead of banging the transmission, upsetting the car every downshift, and having to wait for the suspension to settle before getting back on the throttle.

I greatly admire the FSAE program's technical goals, but you still have to have some driver experience to win the competition.

 

[syam]

i completely agree. our goal was to have a month of driver's training in our formula sae car before the competition. although this is less than desirable, with our funding situation, and also our timelines that needed to be continually reworked (mostly because of budgets and administrative reasons). the drivers on our team have been to a few autocrosses held in the region and know basics on an autocross-type course, but nothing beats practice.

the last autocross i went to in my integra, i started the day with a time of 1:15, which i thought was pretty good. i finished the day at a 1:06 after only 6 runs. after watching some of the skilled drivers on the course and talking with a few of them, it seems like there is so much that i still need to learn.

this is, however, our first car designed and built in a year with a team considerably smaller than any other team i have heard of. if our car finishes the competition, i will be glad. we are also planning on remaking part of our intake manifold to remove the restriction, so we can theoretically make ~100rwhp for fun and driver training in the summer, mostly for the underclassmen and for next year's competition.

 

[Autophile]

I'm proud to say that I was a member of the Cornell FSAE group back when I was getting my master's degree in 1998-1999. We had a huge team, something like 25 members IIRC. I was only a part-time member, but I assisted in chassis set-up and assembly. It was a lot of work and exciting, and it makes me proud to see their continued success.

Oh, also, one of the guys in my research group was a Cooper Union alum. Smart guy, from a top-flight school.

 

[Batmobl]

Im currently on one! Southern Polytechnic State University 19th overall last year! Made the Road and Track article. Our new car is going to bring hell...

 

[HPower3]

Wow, I'd have never thought I'd see anything related to FSAE on this site. I was on a FSAE team (U of Oklahoma - 12th overall in 2006) for 3 years ('00 - '03) full time and eventually was team captain my final year. FSAE was the best thing that ever happened to me and I claim it landed me my current job at Honda R&D here in Ohio. I know all too well about the requirements to make a bunch of college kids work hard for no pay! I use way more of the experience I gained from that team than all the other BS from attending classes. In fact I spend 75% of my interviewing time with Honda talking about FSAE related experiences.

I'm volunteering this year to run the annual Honda banquet so I'll be taking resumes so make sure your teammates bring theirs.

Good luck in May.

 

[syam]

so the car is slowly coming together...here's pictures from before...

we should be rolling by early next week, and driven by the next week.

it's rough when there's so few people working on such a massive project, but the truth of the matter is, i love doing this, and even though it means 16 hour work days for me, i'm fine with it.

anyone in the nyc area know a good place to get wheels/tires mounted and balanced?

 

[NSXT]

Dat ting got eh hemi?

 

[syam]

some updates.

suspension is almost complete. all bolts, nuts, washers, spacers are in, along with brakes. only thing left is to fully weld some parts tacked in place. the thing drops on the ground and rolls sort of, just need to get in the proper lug nugs and studs and this thing is fully rolling.

all that's left is to mount the cooling system, fuel system, rear drive components, intake system, and make an exhaust manifold.

so close to driving.
more updates to come when they come.

comments/questions, don't hesitate to ask.

shiann shin yamin
cooper motorsports
the cooper union
senior undergrad mechanical engineer
team co-captain

 

[blackna1]

Wow, same as the above mentioned that I would've never thought about seeing anything related to FSAE on prime. Well, not that I've ever been involved with them but I heard one of electronics person on the team of U I went to led the team to earn first place in innovative electronics that year and was hired by the Ferrari F1 team as electronics design after graduation. I'm sure there are lots of talents from the FSAE clubs around. So keep up the great work!

 

[syam]

alot has changed since last pictures. final assembly should be complete tomorrow or the day after. kinda late compared to other schools, but considering we started our build in february with 7 guys total, no space, and basically no budget, i say we've done a pretty good job. now if only i didn't have 4 other classes to worry about...and this is considered a very light class loaded semester. (7 classes is about average per semester)

pictures to come soon.

 

[Batmobl]

here is ours 100 percent student designed and built in house. Competition in 2 days... well shit actually one! hahahah good luck guys!

 

[Batmobl]

we placed 20th out of 130 teams. how did u guys do?

 

[Autophile]

Wow, surprising results. The results are listed here.

 

[syam]

saw your car there at competition...looked awesome.

officially, we placed 89th, which kinda sucks. waited around from beginning till just about when autocross ended for the judges to pass us on noise because our ecu wouldn't let us rev pass 8k (with our requirement being somewhere around 11k)...so we missed accel, skidpad, and only got one autocross run in.
we did get in the next day and finished endurance, which for a first year team is pretty good i think, but in the end, it was 22sec out of the time restriction. sucks cuz in our run class, of ~25ish cars, i think only 3-4 finished, making it a horrible traffic jam the whole time, caution flags everywhere, and one really bad oil spill.. took home the 2nd place rookie team award, so that was kinda a plus..

we're playing with the car now, cleaning it up some, fixing the ecu issue, and unrestricting it to race in local scca events, so it should be a blast.

congrats on your finish. we should be up there next year hopefully.

here's ours: during the race, and recently for a post-photo shoot (by me)