First time building a PC, advice wanted

[PHOEN$X]

Hi guys, I'm in the beginning stages of building a mid-range multimedia system to replace my antiquated Pentium 233 desktop. Just something to play music and burn CDs (DVDs in the future), not for gaming or overclocking. This is what I'm thinking of so far for components:

ATX computer Case:
-Enermax CS307 w/330W power supply and 1 case fan
-just purchased from Fry's Electronics, $60

Motherboard & CPU combo:
-Soyo SY-P4S-645 Dragon Lite & P4 2.4GHz
-on sale at Fry's, $229

Memory:
-256MB PC2700 DDR RAM
-on sale at Fry's, $20

Graphics card:
-PNY 64MB AGP Video Card w/nVidia's GeForce4 MX420
-$49 on sale at Fry's I think

Hard Drive:
-Western Digital 80GB WD800JBRTL UATA100
-on sale at Fry's, $80 after rebate

Optical Drives:
-DVD ROM (don't know yet)
-Cendyne (AOpen) 48x12x48 CD-RW (already have)

Modem:
-US Robotics 56K V.92

Monitor:
-15" LCD flat panel (recently purchased)

What do you guys think? Am I missing anything (do I need extra cooling fans for the case)?

 

[project13nsx]

Nice motherboard and cpu.

i would prefer Whisper 400w power supply over Enermax, but thats just me.

Also, i would seriously get at least a 17in monitor. CRT Flat preferred.

Otherwise, everything is very good for what you are planning on using it for.

Goodluck!!!!

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by PHOEN$X:

Memory:
-256MB PC2700 DDR RAM
-on sale at Fry's, $20

get more memory - at that price, you can't help but get more! Put a GIG in!

 

[burbel]

I would recommend just getting another 256Mb stick for the meantime - I know that some motherboards (Athlon at least) have a problem using all 4 slots - whether or not it's a problem, 512 ought to hold you for the meantime.

For a DVD-Rom, I have had good luck with my slot load, Pioneer, I think, and around $40.

As for extra case fans, one to put in the back would probably be a nice touch; check the case to see how many/what holes there are, though, before you start. Most case fans are 80mm.

 

[steveny]

Rd ram is much more reliable and faster IMO.
here is the new pc I had built:

Configuration:Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz,
2.68GHz
Memory: . . . . . . . . .1024MB RDRAM (Samsung)Case Color: . . . . . . . .Hard Drives(s): . . . . .120GB, WDC WD1200JB-75CRA0Plasma PurpleDVD-ROM: . . . . . . . . SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-616TCD-ROM: . . . . . . . . .CD-RW: . . . . . . . . . . Operating System: . .DirectX Version: . . . BIOS Information: . .Intel Corp.8.1Microsoft Windows XP Home EditionLITE-ON 52/24/52 CD-RW-none-DVD-Recorder . . . . . -none-MV85010A.86A.0057.P20.0210251634D850MV - 20021025Storage Device(s): . .-none-01/29/2003 03:00 PMTest Date: . . . . . . . . .Internal Layout:Creative SB Audigy 2 6.1Intel(R) PRO/100 S Desktop AdapterRADEON 9700 Series (128MB)SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-616TLITE-ON 52/24/52 CD-RWBay 1 . . AGP . . .PCI 3 . . .PCI 2 . . .PCI 1 . . .External Bay Devices:Bay 2 . .PCI 4 . . .PCI 5 . . .PCI 6 . . .Bay 3 . .Bay 4 . .Tester Initials: . . . . . .RIAssembler Initials: . . AlexisFloat FPU/RAM Bandwidth .Int ALU/RAM Bandwidth . .HD 2 - Avg. Access Time . . .HD 2 - Buffered Read . . . . . .HD 1 - Avg. Access Time . . HD 1- Buffered Read . . . . . . . Floating-Point . . . . . . . . . . . . .Integer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Whetstone FPU . . . . . . . . . . .Dhrystone ALU . . . . . . . . . . .Test with Quake III . . . . . . . . . . . .Memory BenchmarkDrives BenchmarkCPU Multi-Media BenchmarkCPU BenchmarkTest with SiSoft Sandra:Burn-In/Benchmarks:2812 MB/s2817 MB/s268.9 FPS10662 it/s1445 MFLOPS4902 MIPS84 MB/s11 ms13204 it/s0 System timer1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 KIRQ Configuration:2 -available-3 -available-4 Communications Port (COM1)5 -available-6 Standard floppy disk controller7 -available-8 System CMOS/real time clock9 Intel(R) 82801BA/BAM SMBus Controller - 24439 Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System10 -available-11 -available-12 Microsoft PS/2 Port Mouse (IntelliPoint)13 Numeric data processor14 Primary IDE Channel15 Secondary IDE Channel16 RADEON 9700 Series18 NEC PCI to USB Open Host Controller19 NEC PCI to USB Open Host Controller22 Creative SB Audigy23 Intel(R) PRO/100 S Desktop Adapter1/29/2003PO-224912ASystem Idage 1 of 2
ALIENWARE CORPORATIONALIENWARE.COMComplimentary Multimedia Tests:Test Mic on sound card (and Live! Drive)Test WAV soundTest music CDTest DVD SoftwareOWER DVDMovie Name:ONEComplimentary Tests:Test ModemTest USBTest ZIP/JAZ - Trasnfer a file from HD and backTest Floppy Drive Software Installation:Software Keys

VD:MV189M7553858112Final Checks:Run ScandiskEmpty Recycle BinRun Disk CleanupDefrag the System DriveCheck for DMI InstallationCheck for Alienware ProductivIT BaselineCheck for CDs in the drivesCheck for Alienware Recovery CDCheck for Power Cord and Case KeysCheck ATX power connectionShutdown, unplug, and boot machine twiceClick "SHUTDOWN" when ready for shippingInspect machine for exterior defects Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz, 7-1-2002, 5.1.2600.0
Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard,
7-1-2001, 5.1.2600.1106
Microsoft PS/2 Port Mouse (IntelliPoint), 8-22-2001, 4.0.0.657
LITE-ON LTR-52246S, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-616Q, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
WDC WD1200JB-75CRA0, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
RADEON 9700 Series, 8-15-2002, 6.13.10.6166
RADEON 9700 Series - Secondary, 8-15-2002, 6.13.10.6166
Creative SB Audigy, 9-20-2002, 5.12.1.283
OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Intel(R) PRO/100 S Desktop Adapter, 2-25-2002, 6.1.3.0
Intel(r) 82801BA Bus Master IDE Controller, 7-1-2001,
5.1.2600.1106
Primary IDE Channel, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2600.1106
Secondary IDE Channel, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2600.1106
Audio Codecs, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Legacy Audio Drivers, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Media Control Devices, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Legacy Video Capture Devices, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Video Codecs, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Microsoft Kernel System Audio Device, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Microsoft Kernel Wave Audio Mixer, 7-1-2001, 5.1.2535.0
Microsoft WINMM WDM Audio Compatibility Driver, 7-1-2001,
5.1.2535.0
Installed Device Drivers:1/29/2003PO-224912ASystem Idage 2 of 2

 

[PHOEN$X]

Wow, you guys are into some high-end stuff! Most of the comments are about memory so far. I think RDRAM is nice, but pricey, and I doubt I'd see that much difference with my current computing tasks. Also, I think 256MB will suffice for now; my applications don't tax the system that much, and I could always upgrade later (when RAM will surely be cheaper

).

As for monitors, strangely enough I find I prefer the 15" LCD display over the 21" CRT (ViewSonic) at work. 17" models (LCD) are about twice the price of the 15" one that I just bought, so I'm content for now.

Thanks for the info on the Pioneer DVD-ROM. I'm gonna do some more research on it. Any advice about sound cards? I don't need full-blown surround sound, just something nice to play music on.

So, given that I'm trying to hit the "sweet spot" (best bang for the buck) with these components, am I doing ok?

 

[BostonNSX]

big bang for bucks?
You are asian right.. like me
we get parts from TAIWAN.
if you cant hehe maybe you should ask D ecrosse to help since he travel to Taiwan like every month

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by BostonNSX:
if you cant hehe maybe you should ask D ecrosse to help since he travel to Taiwan like every month

My last trip I found that parts in Taiwan are very similarly priced right now - combination of exchange rates and essentially bombed market.
No disrespect - I really wouldn't want to get into bringing parts back through customs etc. anyway

Originally posted by PHOEN$X:
Most of the comments are about memory so far. I think RDRAM is nice, but pricey, and I doubt I'd see that much difference with my current computing tasks. Also, I think 256MB will suffice for now; my applications don't tax the system that much, and I could always upgrade later (when RAM will surely be cheaper

).

I really don't think so - market is about as bad as it is going to be. Its not recovering any time soon, but definitely at the bottom IMO.
Also see this story for another pertinent reason.

I work in the Semiconductor industry for a company that makes wafer fabrication equipment - we usually see some indication of the upturn as the fabs start ordering equipment. It is still very slow out there (check stock reports on companies like AMAT, ASML, NVLS, KLAC etc for their perspective on the market as well as the chip suppliers - INTC, AMD, TXN, MU, IFX)

As to quantity rather than price, you are underestimatimg the value of memory I think Phoenix - you utilize it a lot more than you think

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 23 February 2003).]

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by PHOEN$X:


As for monitors, strangely enough I find I prefer the 15" LCD display over the 21" CRT (ViewSonic) at work. 17" models (LCD) are about twice the price of the 15" one that I just bought, so I'm content for now.

Thanks for the info on the Pioneer DVD-ROM. I'm gonna do some more research on it. Any advice about sound cards? I don't need full-blown surround sound, just something nice to play music on.

So, given that I'm trying to hit the "sweet spot" (best bang for the buck) with these components, am I doing ok?

I hate to read small text and don't like to scroll left to right either so a 17" lcd is the smallest I will go. My goal is to hook up a 42 inch plasma by next summer, saving now have a few hundred left to save. I can not wait to play TFC or gta3 on a 42.

As for sound cards go with the Creative SB Audigy 2 6.1. You get a front and rear center, and the four surronds. Sound blaster has a decent set of speakers that have this config, around 130 bucks. I like this set up because I can hear people sneaking up on me during game play.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

Hey its your first time too. This summer when I get my job I plan to build a very good computer. I have that Video card that you have and it is alright but you can't play anything that is up to date but since your not that much of a gamer, than your alright.

Here are my future specs.

Just PC Silver Mid-Tower Case with Antec 450W Power Supply
Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard
Corsairs XMS 1GB Dual Channel DDR RAM
Maxtor 160 GB SATA Hard Disk Drive
Athlon XP 2800+ Processor
Pioneer 4xDVD-R/DVD-RW
Logitech Wireless Keyboard and Mouse

all of this connected to my dad's 42 inch big screen TV. I just want a computer that can last for a long time without me having to update it so this is what I have chose. It should cost about 2400 or less, but if I have chose the Pentium 4 motherboard version the price would of been close to 2800 which is alot more than what I want to spend.

Hey I have a question are LCD screens bad or something? My friends don't recommend it.

 

[okie]

for the price of 229 you might as well spend the extra $10 or so and get 2.53 p4 at 533fsb. it will give a big improvement for a minimal price over the 400fsb chips.

btw, very good prices can be found on newegg.com
it has one of the best ratings on the net. very easy to return/exchange broken products. although i've never broken anything myself. dont use pricewatch as a lot of dealers are shady. if you must, always check resellerratings.com
i just built a rig myself. about 800 for a godly top of the line system.

 

[PHOEN$X]

UPDATE:

Well, in a fit of impulse rage I ran to Fry's and got all the components yesterday afternoon. I then spent all night putting the system together. Here's what I ended up with, and comments about each one:

-Soyo SY-P4S-645 Dragon Lite MOBO & P4 2.4GHz CPU (533MHz FSB), $229

I got this combo because, well I didn't know any better and no one had advised against it (yet). It was pretty easy to install, except for lacking instructions on the CPU heat sink/fan. The MOBO came with thermal paste, and the CPU-although boxed-came with no instructions. I applied the thermal paste between the CPU and thermal pad, and lots of it too! The goo ran all over the place, including the hole in the chip. After further googling today I think I shouldn't have used the thermal paste, but am unsure about what to do about it now.

The other problem I encountered was with the IDE devices. This MOBO has 4 IDE connectors, the normal 1 & 2 plus 3 & 4 (which can be used for RAID or regular IDE HD but not optical devices, according to SOYO). So I wanted to put the CD burner, DVD, and hard drive on their own IDE channel to maximize performance. No matter what I tried though, I could not get the system to work with CD-RW on IDE 1, DVD on IDE 2, and HD on IDE 3. I enabled the RAID and set the first boot device as SCSI, as specified by SOYO, then booted up with my WinXP Pro cd, but it always failed to recognize the hard drive. I ended up with the HD on IDE 1, and CD-RW & DVD daisy chained on IDE 2.

Other than that, it was easy to set up & configure (of course the manual could've been written better, but thank goodness for the internet!). It seems adequate for my needs. The onboard sound card sounds much better than the one in my old P233 Toshiba desktop, although I haven't hooked it up to really good speakers yet.

-Mushkin 256MB PC2700 (333MHz) DDR RAM, $39

I'm glad I only got one stick of this stuff, because I'm returning it. I don't think it's compatible with my system. I couldn't get it to work at 333MHz, only 266MHz. For those of you in the know, I set the CPU clock to 133MHz and the CPU-to-DRAM clock ratio at 1:1 (4:5 kept causing the system to crash).

-PNY GeForce4 MX420 64MB AGP, $49 after rebate

I stayed with this one just to try it out, but I might switch to the GeForce4 MX440 or a better card per Neo's recommendations. Not sure yet though, cause I don't plan on doing any gaming and maybe this card will be adequate for DVD playback.

-Western Digital 120GB WD1200JBRTL (UDMA100/7200/8MB), $120 after rebate

The 80GB models were sold out, so I picked this one.

-56K PCI Winmodem, $10

I decided to go cheap with this component, since I hope to upgrade to high-speed internet access soon and didn't want to sink any unnecessary $$$ into a quality modem.

-BTC 16/48 DVD-ROM, $35

I didn't find the Pioneers at Fry's, so I got this one after consulting my brother. Plus I found a region-free hack for it

-SOYO BayONE AVI 6.1 (universal memory card reader & USB 2.0 ports), $30

I had problems with this device. I should've installed it AFTER the O/S, cause it took all the drive letters up to G, and now my HD/boot partition is on H.

Also, I could not get it to read my CF card. The USB ports work though. Anyway, I'm going to yank it out, reinstall the OS, then play with it again.

All in all, it's been a pretty good learning experience so far. I did cut my fingers a couple of times installing the drives into the case, but otherwise it was pretty easy to build my first system. I think this was a much better approach than buying that eMachines PC that I was considering.

It's much better than my P233 desktop, and I still have some money left over for the NSX.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Originally posted by Midnight_Raven:
Hey I have a question are LCD screens bad or something? My friends don't recommend it.

Hey MR, I hear lots of negative comments about LCDs too (particularly about 15" being inadequate) but I love mine! You just gotta try it, and decide for yourself.

 

[NeoNSX]

Midnight Raven... about LCD's, if you buy a cheap or older model, you will regret it.

I saw a Sony 15" LCD yesterday, and it was AWESOME... some others on display were visibly poorer in quality.

 

[burbel]

Quick warning - that's the wrong way to use thermal paste; you should really pull it out and clean it up - from what I have read and been told, you want a thin layer of thermal paste, very thin, just enough to bridge the gap and keep air out - if you put a thick layer you will actually insulate the chip, and that's a very bad thing...

Would seriously recommend getting that changes now; when I first did my Athlon CPUs in my dual board temps were 55C/58C, when I redid them and used what I thought was far to little thermal paste, they dropped to 48C/51C - that's a pretty big difference, and really helped the machine out.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Thanks for the warning, burbel. I actually purchased some Arctic Silver III thermal compound yesterday, and am planning to tackle the cleanup/reapplication this weekend. The PC is non-operative for the moment since I returned the MX420 video card and ordered a Ti4200 card instead. I also got 512MB of PC2700 RAM, but can't test that either till the video card arrives.

 

[NetViper]

I am thinking of getting a new PC shortly as my athlon 1.2 feels dated.

I am thinking of getting the PE chipset as it runs PC2700 ram.

Any suggestions on the board?

I am thinking Abit or Asus.

Also, Is anyone running an ATI Radeon 9700 PRO? Any driver issues? Seems to be the best card to get right now and it is Dx9 compliant. It will rock for Doom3

[This message has been edited by NetViper (edited 27 February 2003).]

 

[NeoNSX]

burbel: no worries...becoz PhoeN$X owns one of these: http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030224/asetek_vapochill-11.html

NetViper: Your Athlon 1.2 feels dated because it is dated!

Asus, Abit, Gigabyte are the best boards i've ever used. Soyo & MSI are also meant to have good reputations.

Doom3 will kill an ATI Radeon 9700 PRO... the dynamic lighting in that game is gonna grind even today's video cards to their knees...

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by NeoNSX:

Doom3 will kill an ATI Radeon 9700 PRO... the dynamic lighting in that game is gonna grind even today's video cards to their knees...

[/B]

Doom 3 was designed on the Radeon 9700 PRO. It should run well. Carmack only recently switched to the Geforce FX to test it.

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by NetViper:
Doom 3 was designed on the Radeon 9700 PRO. It should run well. Carmack only recently switched to the Geforce FX to test it.

I have the 9700 pro in my pc and it runs doom 3, Gta 3 or any other new release just fine. I also have 5 cooling fans as well so that may help.

 

[NeoNSX]

Originally posted by steveny:
I have the 9700 pro in my pc and it runs doom 3, Gta 3 or any other new release just fine. I also have 5 cooling fans as well so that may help.

Steveny: does this mean you have a copy of the Doom3 alpha release which doesn't exist?

i am sceptical about Doom3's specs... carmark won't release a game that runs on today's hardware; he always CREATES tomorrow's standard. Today's specs will just be entry level.

 

[Ag NSX]

Maybe this should be a new topic but...

Are you guys concerned with CPU and motherboard temps? Mine is running 50c and my board is 33c. I have a cpu fan, power fan and a case fan, that's all. Is the price of another fan worth it to see the increased CPU speed?

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by NeoNSX:
Steveny: does this mean you have a copy of the Doom3 alpha release which doesn't exist?

i am sceptical about Doom3's specs... carmark won't release a game that runs on today's hardware; he always CREATES tomorrow's standard. Today's specs will just be entry level.

Its a demo version not the whole game. I received it via a confidential source from California.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Originally posted by Ag NSX:
Are you guys concerned with CPU and motherboard temps? Mine is running 50c and my board is 33c. I have a cpu fan, power fan and a case fan, that's all. Is the price of another fan worth it to see the increased CPU speed?

50c should be fine. I don't know what kind of CPU you're running, but the max case temperature for my Pentium 2.4GHz processor is 70c. Now that I've replaced the thermal pad and silicon paste on my CPU & heat sink with Arctic Silver III, it's running at a cool 43c-47c.

I might add more fans if I decide to overclock, but I think for now it's fine.

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[This message has been edited by PHOEN$X (edited 28 February 2003).]

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by steveny:
Its a demo version not the whole game. I received it via a confidential source from California.

My brother has the alpha or something version 0.13. On his DUAL 2.0+ GHz XEON processor with a Geforce Ti4600, it was pulling like 13 FPS.

Of course, this is no where near done, and I am sure it is optimized for DX 9.0 and the radeon 9700 PRO