Ferrari Factory Fill And Sole Service Fill Recommendation
- Thread starter AKUDOU
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I'm not sure what the poster's intent was in posting this. I would bet Shell's synthetic was very similar to synthetic oils made by Pennzoil, Mobil and other major oil companies. Many cars have advertising based around factory fill reccomendations - I think this is as much marketing as science. Any synthetic oil of the right viscosity will provide "maximum protection" for your engine IMO.
The differences compared to some of the major competitors is they are providing an oil with a good viscosity index that flows well in cold temperatures and slightly better to combat cold start wear. However, the flash point is one of the lowest I've seen at 206C.
Sunny
Sunny
Sorry the grose generalization that all synthetic oils are the same and it is a marketing ploy is untrue.All I was trying to point out was that some highly regarded automobile companys(the list is in my previous post) are endorseing this product. I personally feel that if Helix Ultra can stand up to the testing and years of research that Shell and F1 racing can dish out it should work well in a low reving NSX compared to the revs of F1 cars.
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JAG Man,What is the definition of flash point?
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I'm sure it is a good product, but the oil used in F1 cars has very little to do with the oil you put in a street car, regardless of the brand. Completely different formulations, additives and properties.
It's like the Honda ad where they implied that their F1 program was a testbed for the technology in the Accord. Riiiiight. Nice marketing... little technical basis.
The fact is Ferrari uses Shell because Shell is a major sponsor. When AGIP was sponsoring Ferrari, the Ferrari race and street cars all used AGIP oil... for 22 years! They only changed to Shell when Shell offered twice the money and AGIP couldn't match the bid.
Again, I am not bagging Shell at all, they are a good company with lots of race experience and good products. But marketing is marketing, and Shell is very good at that too.
P.S. "Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption." -- Copied from the Motor Oil FAQ which should be read by anyone who wants to discuss the technical properties of motor oils.
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 19 December 2002).]
Here's a textbook definition of flash point:
Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption.
Numbers aren't everything and its best to base our experiences and those of others to decide whats best to use. If you like stats, check out Amsoil Series 2000 0w30.
I'm in communication with a Ford lubrication specialist right now and he's saying that for my application, a 0w30 would be more appropriate then a 20w50 syn. He's right in every respect but one; my car has a problem with a low viscosity oil and the timing chain tensioners and Southern California isn't quite a winter paradise in the summer..
I may start switching between the two weights.
As for the NSX, what's recommended for your climate by the manual and the dealers?
Sunny
Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption.
Numbers aren't everything and its best to base our experiences and those of others to decide whats best to use. If you like stats, check out Amsoil Series 2000 0w30.
I'm in communication with a Ford lubrication specialist right now and he's saying that for my application, a 0w30 would be more appropriate then a 20w50 syn. He's right in every respect but one; my car has a problem with a low viscosity oil and the timing chain tensioners and Southern California isn't quite a winter paradise in the summer..
As for the NSX, what's recommended for your climate by the manual and the dealers?
Sunny
Lud,You are dead wrong. The track is where oils are tested just like the Honda cars are tested to return the technoligy back to the consumer. Lets not get into a pissing match over oil. The original post was put here for information only. I enjoy NSX Prime immensely and has helped me tremendously because of the world of information about NSXs I am on my third one.I have been with Shell Oil Co for 35 years and untill you see what goes on in research and development, oil to the average person is not given much thought.Just like buying gasoline not many people think about the brand value these days just price. Like the quote says You get what you pay for.Personally Ill pay more and get the best results like better gas milage and a high mileage car that dosent use oil.
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That is not low, its over 400F
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Ok, if I am wrong, I'm always willing to learn something...
What technology from Honda's F1 program is found in the Accord?
What does the oil used in the F1 cars have in common with the oil you buy for your NSX? Is it even the same base? What about additives?
What technology from Honda's F1 program is found in the Accord?
What does the oil used in the F1 cars have in common with the oil you buy for your NSX? Is it even the same base? What about additives?
Your the xspert you tell me.
No specific brand is recommended.
10W30 viscosity is recommended for ambient temperatures of -4 degrees F and warmer. 5W30 viscosity is recommended for temperatures below -4 degrees F and is acceptable for temperatures up to 32 degrees F.
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I already explained my position - scroll up a few messages.
You told me I was dead wrong and claimed industry expertise, so I'm simply asking you to explain why I am wrong. I am not trying to be snide or unreasonable, I am serious! The whole point of this forum is to share and exchange information.
You told me I was dead wrong and claimed industry expertise, so I'm simply asking you to explain why I am wrong. I am not trying to be snide or unreasonable, I am serious! The whole point of this forum is to share and exchange information.
No seriously I will get back to you on that. I have 2 lines flashing and my Nextel beeping. Go to my web and click on shell and the F-1 site. I will get back soon.
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Lud, Read this especially the last paragraph.
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 19 December 2002).]
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 19 December 2002).]
Lud,I can't figure out what happened so lets try it this way.http://www.shellmotorsports.com/2001review/news/index_feature.html....................http://www.shellmotorsports.com/2001review/news/index_feature.html........................ http://www.shellmotorsports.com/2001review/news/index_feature.html Read the featured articles. Thanks James Curry
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 19 December 2002).]
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 19 December 2002).]
LUD Check links above and you will see that Shells position goes way beyond just sponsership.
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 19 December 2002).]
Originally posted by Lud:
Of course Shell is the "factory fill and sole sevice recommendation" for Ferraris. Shell is one of Ferrari's biggest sponsors! Those Shell logos on the nose cone and sides of the cars and on the team uniforms ain't free...
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 19 December 2002).]
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Those links don't have any specific answers such as exactly what technology from F1 goes into consumer products.
An Accord has far more in common with a Camry than an F1 car, and synthetic oils for street cars have more in common with each other than they do with the blends going into F1 cars. If you believe I am wrong, please share specific information to contradict this.
Certainly every oil company, tire company, engine and chassis company, etc. involved in F1 learns a ton from their experiences. The race track is a great R&D facility.
And yes, Shell works closely with Ferrari in addition to sponsoring them, just like other suppliers for oil, tires, engines, etc. work closely with the teams they have contracts with.
But it is no secret that Ferrari and every other F1 team partners with whoever brings the most to the bargaining table. Ferrari thought AGIP was just fine for 22 years - they didn't switch to Shell until Shell wrote twice as big a check. Did Shell become a superior product the same day they signed the deal, or the money make that deal happen?
In 2005 when the current Shell contract with Ferrari is up, does anyone honestly think Ferrari would stay with Shell if Mobil brought twice as much to the table as Shell was willing to offer? The same is true for any sponsor/partner relationship in F1, the same is true in all of motorsports, and in fact all of professional sports.
P.S. I am moving this thread to Off Topic as it has no real NSX content
An Accord has far more in common with a Camry than an F1 car, and synthetic oils for street cars have more in common with each other than they do with the blends going into F1 cars. If you believe I am wrong, please share specific information to contradict this.
Certainly every oil company, tire company, engine and chassis company, etc. involved in F1 learns a ton from their experiences. The race track is a great R&D facility.
And yes, Shell works closely with Ferrari in addition to sponsoring them, just like other suppliers for oil, tires, engines, etc. work closely with the teams they have contracts with.
But it is no secret that Ferrari and every other F1 team partners with whoever brings the most to the bargaining table. Ferrari thought AGIP was just fine for 22 years - they didn't switch to Shell until Shell wrote twice as big a check. Did Shell become a superior product the same day they signed the deal, or the money make that deal happen?
In 2005 when the current Shell contract with Ferrari is up, does anyone honestly think Ferrari would stay with Shell if Mobil brought twice as much to the table as Shell was willing to offer? The same is true for any sponsor/partner relationship in F1, the same is true in all of motorsports, and in fact all of professional sports.
P.S. I am moving this thread to Off Topic as it has no real NSX content
This link is a good summery of what Shell has done in F1 for 50 years.And yes what they have learned through racing does come back to the consumer in the oil and gas that we use everyday............................http://www.shellmotorsports.com/2001review/news/index_feature.html........Then click on "Shell and Ferrari a good marriage".
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 21 December 2002).]
[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 21 December 2002).]
Lud It's obvious that you have more time than anyone I know to discuss the pros and cons of about every subject imagined. All I wanted to post was the introduction of a new oil that hasen't been avalible in the USA untill a few months ago and a little history of the development of this oil. Now it seems that you are attacking Shell Oil and Ferrari by trying to portray that you are smarter than they are. I see you as a legend in your own mind and after many years of reading your dissection of many posts to the point of making people feel inferior I have had enough. I am disenchanted with the whole NSX scene. This car has been dissected,digested and vomited finally to the point of boredom so saying no more I am out of here for good.If anyone is interested in a black 93NSX with 39,000mi or a Silver 2000 NSX with 4,900mi email me. If not I will be trading both for a 360 Ferrari. It was fun while it lasted.
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[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 21 December 2002).]
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[This message has been edited by AKUDOUSAN (edited 21 December 2002).]
Don't be such a whinner. Lud has been extremely polite in his posts, even going so far as to open one with "I am sure they are good products" - how is that a problem? All he has done is point out the OBVIOUS reason Ferrari switched from Agip products to Shell and you are crying about it. We are all here to learn from each other and part of that process is asking questions and making comments. Deal with it.
There are some real jerks on this forum, but Lud is not one of them. If you want to take your ball and go home that's your perogative, but I doubt anyone here is going to shed a tear for your 'wah, wah, Lud was mean to me' cry. Jeez.
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Sorry you don't like me and are so upset by my the fact that I like to ask questions so I understand the technical basis behind something before accepting it as fact.
The name calling is a bit immature, and I'd say it is possibly a slight over-reaction to go off in a huff and sell your NSXs because you don't like me, but hey, do what you want.
Enjoy the Ferrari, it's a great car.
The name calling is a bit immature, and I'd say it is possibly a slight over-reaction to go off in a huff and sell your NSXs because you don't like me, but hey, do what you want.
Enjoy the Ferrari, it's a great car.
The simple fact of the matter is that Lud is completely correct…. Automobile manufacturers have quite a history of implying that this car or that uses “F1 technology”. Such claims are always made by the marketing folks, not the engineers, who will privately scoff at any such notion.
In any case, the oil used by most of the F1 teams is a super exotic small batch produced product (I forgot the company name). The teams put this stuff in the Shell / Mobil / (insert oil company sponsors’ same here)’s containers so that everyone can see that they are using Shell or whatever brand. It’s all a question of $$$, and at this level of motorsports, we are taking some HUGE numbers, so such practices should not be of any surprise to any who sits back and thinks about the situation.
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In any case, the oil used by most of the F1 teams is a super exotic small batch produced product (I forgot the company name). The teams put this stuff in the Shell / Mobil / (insert oil company sponsors’ same here)’s containers so that everyone can see that they are using Shell or whatever brand. It’s all a question of $$$, and at this level of motorsports, we are taking some HUGE numbers, so such practices should not be of any surprise to any who sits back and thinks about the situation.
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All My NSX'es Live in Texas
