Federal 595 RS-R review

[HDA]

So I figured that the Federal RS-R deserve a post of their own since there are only random posts here and there.

I just bought a set in 215/40r17 and 265/35r18, brand new, from onlinetires.com.

The reason why I did not purchase them in 235 and 275 is because I read pretty much everywhere that they are wider than what reported, with the 215 being more of a "230" and the 265 being more of a 275.
At $500 shipped and UTQG of 140 they seem to be a good option for what I intend to do - Occasional trackday, maybe some time attack.

The competition was in the form of the Nitto NT05. Slightly more expensive and with a similar rating
UTQG of 140, AA, A.

I will have them this weekend and will report my impressions.
They will be installed on my new RPF1s on my NSX which has:

- Buddy Club coilovers
- Type R Bars
- Type R front antiroll bar
- Zanardi rear antiroll bar
- HP+ pads
- Track alignment

This will be my first r compound on the NSX but I did many trackdays before with AD08, NT01 and currently race in WRL with the Direzza Star Spec II.

 

[austrian type-R]

I had the Federal on the rear axle at my last Time Attack and I was realy surprised how good this tire is for the money it costs. Since the 215/40/17 was not available here last summer, I had Toyos up front. The rear was Federal 255/40/17. And yes, it is about 10mm wider than my street tire same dimension Potenza RE050A

 

[solidol]

I was under impression this is good Auto X not TA tire.

 

[HDA]

I was under impression this is good Auto X not TA tire.

I can't quite grasp the difference that is made between AutoX, trackday, race or TA...can someone help me? Sur , if you talk about Hoosiers I understand that they have max 2 fast laps in them before they overheat, but when you talk about a UTQG of 140/200 I do not think you run into that issue.

 

[solidol]

I can't quite grasp the difference that is made between AutoX, trackday, race or TA...can someone help me? Sur , if you talk about Hoosiers I understand that they have max 2 fast laps in them before they overheat, but when you talk about a UTQG of 140/200 I do not think you run into that issue.

Very different applications. Think about average time (track distance) for TA vs Auto X session. Think about how many times you have to go from say 120 to 40 in 25 min session on the track. It all comes down to heat management and degradation rate and level. I think Roger (@Dhalsim) has these. But I think it was somebody else complaining about overheating them on the track.

 

[HDA]

Very different applications. Think about average time (track distance) for TA vs Auto X session. Think about how many times you have to go from say 120 to 40 in 25 min session on the track. It all comes down to heat management and degradation rate and level. I think Roger (@Dhalsim) has these. But I think it was somebody else complaining about overheating them on the track.

Understood. I may have more of a prehistoric approach when hir comes down to tires used on the track. I always think that each tire as a preferred pressure at which operates optimally Because you're Dunlop work well at 28 cold it is not said that also the Federals will.

 

[RYU]

Very different applications. Think about average time (track distance) for TA vs Auto X session. Think about how many times you have to go from say 120 to 40 in 25 min session on the track. It all comes down to heat management and degradation rate and level. I think Roger (@Dhalsim) has these. But I think it was somebody else complaining about overheating them on the track.

They are a great tire for the money, no doubt. In my experience, they got greasy much more quickly and fall off much quicker when tracking. I'm supercharged with BBKs so I might be harder on tires than most NSXs maybe.

 

[Hapa88]

I've run the 595RSR on both my NSX and my Mazdaspeed3. They have excellent cold temperature grip and great mid temperature grip. The downside is that they tend to overheat on Track day applications. So I would agree that in Autocross they would probably be much better suited.
On track days I've found that they tend to overheat around the 15 minute mark and start losing grip quite quickly after that. My best lap times are usually about the 3rd to 4th lap. One other downside is the sidewall isn't quite as reinforced as their competitors. I found you have to run slightly higher tire pressures to compensate. Don't drop the pressures too much or the sidewalls will wear out quicker than the top tread.

For the price you can't really beat them, but yeah, my Dunlop Star Specs Z1 lasted longer overall and could hold heat better. I'm about to buy another set of 595RSRs, but I wanted to see if the newer 595-RS-RR will be released soon in NSX friendly sizes.

Overall I think you'll like them, especially if you're learning. Once you start getting competitive, there are better tires out there (I'm in it for fun, so I don't care that much).

 

[HDA]

Overall I think you'll like them, especially if you're learning. Once you start getting competitive, there are better tires out there (I'm in it for fun, so I don't care that much).

mmmm this worries me because I am not in the "learning phase" :smile:
They come in on Friday - Sunday I will take them for a break in street drive.

 

[SoloNSX]

These are a good tire for AutoX and street use, similar to the Toyo R1r. But like the Toyo R1r, they are better suited for lighter cars, may not fair as well on the NSX. Great in the rain. Expect them to fall off quickly with heat from a track day, esp a mid-summer track day.. Great tire for the price, but better options out there now.

 

[RYU]

These are a good tire for AutoX and street use, similar to the Toyo R1r. But like the Toyo R1r, they are better suited for lighter cars, may not fair as well on the NSX. Great in the rain. Expect them to fall off quickly with heat from a track day, esp a mid-summer track day.. Great tire for the price, but better options out there now.

Funny you mention the Toyo R1r. It appears from the MotoIQ article the T1r is not like the RSR at all. It seems to be predictable at the expense of peak grip - which can be very good. I like that and that's a sign of a consistent tire. Probably good for beginners.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/2909/TESTED-Toyo-RA1.aspx

 

[nsxtasy]

In addition to differences between autocross tires and racetrack tires in how they do once they get hot, there are also differences in how quickly they get hot. Autocross tires are designed to grip right away without warmup, whereas racetrack tires often require a hot lap or two before they reach their performance potential.

You can tell the difference by looking at the description of the Hoosier A7, their autocross tire, on the Tire Rack website:

Hoosier Racing Tire Sports Car DOT A7 Radials are Racetrack & Autocross Only tires developed for drivers who compete in autocross, time trial and hillclimb events in dry conditions where responsiveness and high levels of grip at lower operating temperatures are desirable. A7 Radials are also used for road racing on lightweight cars or when competing in cool ambient temperatures where Hoosier Sports Car DOT R6 Radials cannot be brought up to favorable operating temperatures.

This will be my first r compound on the NSX but I did many trackdays before with AD08, NT01 and currently race in WRL with the Direzza Star Spec II.

The NT01 is usually considered an R compound tire.

Funny you mention the Toyo R1r. It appears from the MotoIQ article the T1r is not like the RSR at all.

I'm not sure whether you're referring to the R1R (their supersticky extreme performance tire) or the T1R (their ultra high performance tire). And neither is mentioned in the link you cited, which is an article about the RA1 (and which I enjoyed reading, thanks for the link).

 

[SoloNSX]

Funny you mention the Toyo R1r. It appears from the MotoIQ article the T1r is not like the RSR at all. It seems to be predictable at the expense of peak grip - which can be very good. I like that and that's a sign of a consistent tire. Probably good for beginners.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/2909/TESTED-Toyo-RA1.aspx

Link provided is about the RA1, very different tire. I can only speak for Autox as that is what I religiously do. I've been running my '91 Si in STC/S for the past ~4+ years on the R1r, was the top tire for this car/class until the new 200tw tires/rules came out early this year. I know a few top competitors who ran in my class sometimes swapped between R1r and RSR with little to no setup changes. Keep in mind, all of our cars are nearly identical, STC was basically a spec class. Anyone could win with either tire. They are similar in the fact that they both have soft sidewalls, have their peak grip when at a lower temp and when they get hot they get greasy pretty quick, both great in the rain and both work better on lighter cars. Overall, the RSR never became *the* tire, at all. R1r had a significantly larger appeal to autoxer's, for National events I could only remember a small handful of people around the country actually running the RSR during competition. But now that is all old news. R1r's stamp change to 200tw did nothing and RSR is still an illegal tire for many clubs. Bridgestone & BFG really took over the street tire fight with Dunlop still in the fight with their Z2*.

 

[HDA]

the track and the stopwatch will tell how good these tires are.

I know the nt01 are a R comp tire, i had them on my s2k (not on the nsx)

 

[nsxtasy]

Yes, one of the differences to consider among tires for autocross are competition rules. As indicated above by SoloNSX, some rules require tires with 200 or higher treadwear ratings. You won't find any R compound tires with treadwear ratings that high - for example, the treadwear rating on the Hoosier A7 is 40 - so for those events/classes you'll be limited to some (not all, but some) of the extreme performance summer tires. (Or lower performance categories, although those won't usually be competitive.)

- - - Updated - - -

I haven't driven on the 595 RS-R but it sounds to me like they are an extreme performance street tire, not an R compound tire. I've never heard of an R compound tire with a treadwear rating higher than 100. And the mention by Adrian of them overheating on the racetrack would seem to confirm that.

 

[HDA]

I am reading all the above feedback as follows:

Has a relatively softer wall -> likes high pressure -> overheats quickly.

 

[jones83]

I think we talked about these tires on instagram. Oversized and really good bang for the buck. Onlinetires said the new Federal 595 RS-RR is coming soon. The RS-RR is supposed to follow in the same sizing as the RS-R tires.


Jones

 

[Dhalsim]

I agree with much of what has been said here. I have been using the RS-R for a while now but haven't had them on track yet. BUT on the autoX they have been great! Good enough to beat all others at the NSXPO autox and good enough to beat everything running except a Lotus Caterham at the last autox I did.

I did pick these up based on a recommendation from another NSX owner who was using them at the NSX Buttonwillow track day earlier this year. He said they were very good for the track but did get greasy when hot. I did experience this after several runs at the autox in Palm Springs when it was 100+ degrees.

I will also be doing a track day in 9 days at MRLS so I will then have first hand knowledge of their ability on track. Its supposed to be cold that day so that will probably be good. And I dont have Ryu's ninja track skills but I will push them as hard as I can.

 

[HDA]

I think we talked about these tires on instagram. Oversized and really good bang for the buck. Onlinetires said the new Federal 595 RS-RR is coming soon. The RS-RR is supposed to follow in the same sizing as the RS-R tires.
Jones

Yep [MENTION=4020]Andre[/MENTION]orama it's me on instagram.
Coming to MSRH for their charity event on the 27th of December?

 

[RYU]

In addition to differences between autocross tires and racetrack tires in how they do once they get hot, there are also differences in how quickly they get hot. Autocross tires are designed to grip right away without warmup, whereas racetrack tires often require a hot lap or two before they reach their performance potential.

You can tell the difference by looking at the description of the Hoosier A7, their autocross tire, on the Tire Rack website:




The NT01 is usually considered an R compound tire.


I'm not sure whether you're referring to the R1R (their supersticky extreme performance tire) or the T1R (their ultra high performance tire). And neither is mentioned in the link you cited, which is an article about the RA1 (and which I enjoyed reading, thanks for the link).

Link provided is about the RA1, very different tire. I can only speak for Autox as that is what I religiously do. I've been running my '91 Si in STC/S for the past ~4+ years on the R1r, was the top tire for this car/class until the new 200tw tires/rules came out early this year. I know a few top competitors who ran in my class sometimes swapped between R1r and RSR with little to no setup changes. Keep in mind, all of our cars are nearly identical, STC was basically a spec class. Anyone could win with either tire. They are similar in the fact that they both have soft sidewalls, have their peak grip when at a lower temp and when they get hot they get greasy pretty quick, both great in the rain and both work better on lighter cars. Overall, the RSR never became *the* tire, at all. R1r had a significantly larger appeal to autoxer's, for National events I could only remember a small handful of people around the country actually running the RSR during competition. But now that is all old news. R1r's stamp change to 200tw did nothing and RSR is still an illegal tire for many clubs. Bridgestone & BFG really took over the street tire fight with Dunlop still in the fight with their Z2*.

You guys are totally right. Pardon me. I goofed here and got the tires mixed up.

- - - Updated - - -

And I dont have Ryu's ninja track skills but I will push them as hard as I can.

I hope you don't because if you had his ninja skills you'd be really slow :redface:

 

[jones83]

Yep @Andreorama it's me on instagram.
Coming to MSRH for their charity event on the 27th of December?

I wanted to but I have to head back home for Christmas to see the family. I will wait for the next MSRH event to try and come out to see it. I'll probably be at the next cars and coffee event in highland park if you attend those.

 

[mochanges]

Very different applications. Think about average time (track distance) for TA vs Auto X session. Think about how many times you have to go from say 120 to 40 in 25 min session on the track. It all comes down to heat management and degradation rate and level. I think Roger (@Dhalsim) has these. But I think it was somebody else complaining about overheating them on the track.

That's probably me you are remembering Roman. I ran them for 3 track days I think? I was frustrated with them. Good grip for first few laps and then they were really greasy. Couple factors to keep in mind: 1. these track days were hot, at THill in the summer hot, 2. I didn't play with my tire pressure as much as I should have. These would be awesome for a lighter car like an Elise or Miata.

The fronts took awhile to get, when I was looking for them I had to keep calling the distributor and asking when they were in, and then I would call onlinetires.com and tell them they were available to order.

The savings were great but they made my track day less enjoyable, at least during a hot day. [MENTION=4885]Roger[/MENTION], looking forward to hear what you think of them.

 

[HDA]

They just came in, and they are black

Planning to put them on in the next few days. I can tell that the 215s are bigger than a conventional 215.

 

[Boostedtaco]

I concur with what everbody else has said. I was putting around COTA this weekend and it was getting a little greasy with it only being 65. Its great for a cost alternative performance tire, but for longer sessions i'd spend the extra bucks.

 

[Dhalsim]

[MENTION=4885]Roger[/MENTION], looking forward to hear what you think of them.

why not come out and see for yourself? Its gonna be a cool 56 degrees so I'm hoping that will help with the greasiness.