fake cashiers checks

[SNDSOUL]

Anyone have advice on collecting on fake cashiers checks?? Here's the story:

A customer came into my store about a month 1/2 ago and got an estimate for a audio/video system, normal everyday stuff. He left and we didnt here back for about two weeks and then we got a call from him. He said he had moved to Chicago but he still wanted to get the system, could we ship it? So my salesman told him, no problem, just send a cashiers check for the amount($6,166) and after the check cleared, we would ship the products. So the cashiers checks came, I had my salesman call the issueing bank to verify that they were legit. The bank said that as long as the checks had the bank logo and the watermarks, then we had nothing to worry about. We asked about the check #'s and they said that they had 10 branches and they all used different #'s so there was no way to verify that?? I deposited the checks, but before I did, I asked my bank teller to verify the checks also. She gave me the same reply about the watermarks. I waited seven days, both checks cleared on October 9th, so I shipped the products. On November 8th I recieved both checks back as FRAUD!!! I made a police report and talked with both banks and the Secret Service. They all said the same thing--We will do an investigation, but dont expect us to catch the guy or get your money back??

How does this happen?? I have three address' for this guy, three phone #'s and he is still calling me wanting more stuff!!! The police would have no problem getting this crook if they would act now, but they said I have to go through the procedures and tipically it takes about a month before they even start to look??

It seems the system is designed to give the criminal every opportunity to get away. I did every thing right trying to verify the checks and waiting for them to clear. They took over a month to come back fake!

Anyone deal with a situation like this before? I am very tempted to fly to Chicago and deal with this crook in my own way!!

 

[apapada]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I do not know how this happens. I had also assumed (wrongly) that when a check "clears" it becomes now the bank's responsibility if the money cannot be claimed from the other side. If the money is not there I was assuming the check would never clear, but in fact it does before the money is claimed. Certified Checks are no more "Certified" than a regular one anymore...

 

[Autophile]

All I can say is, this upsets me very much. I hope this is resolved for you soon.

 

[MJK]

That stinks. Did you try calling Chicago PD? Perhaps with another shipment this guy can be caught.

 

[AutoEuphoria]

I believe that if the bank told you that they would honor it if there was the bank logo and watermark, and there was a bank logo and watermark, then they have no right to try to stiff you for their mistake. Seems like you did everything you could to protect yourself from this, and the bank f*cked up. They should be responsible and train their people better so they don't give out false information again.

In any case, you know the guy's name, so he can be tracked down. It is fraud, and he will go to jail for it if he is caught. I wish you the best of luck with this situation...I have been there before (not for that much money). Hope you get that f*cker.

 

[NsXMas]

Yes, the bank should be liable if they are so cavalier about such matters.

 

[AutoEuphoria]

EXACTLY!
They told you on two different occasions that they would honor the check if there were watermarks. That was the only condition they gave you, and it appears as if the condition was satisfied. They told you false information, and you should not be held liable for that. It was THEIR mistake. If you have the resources, I'd have your lawyer draft up a letter and send it to their branch office. They are definitely in the wrong as much as the guy who sent it to you.

 

[LJSB]

To make this clear, the fraud was involving a counterfeit bank check?
The bank named on the counterfeit check is sure to have a problem with this activity and I would think be interested in tracking the culprit down.
Sounds like a "Catch Me If You Can" copycat.
Have you contacted the U.S.Post Office to file a mail fraud charge?
You mentioned the Secret Service and that doesn't sound right.
Isn't it the FBI who handles problems like this?

 

[lemansnsx]

Approaching this from a slightly different tack I would notify the bank - by certified letter with copies to every executive that I could identify - that I was closing my account(s) with them specifically due to this incident.

 

[RichH]

As a former banker, I can tell you the bank should be very interested in pursuing this.

My advice is to go up the chain of command, at least to the Executive VP level at the bank. You must go beyond the branch manager level if you have not. Also deal with the corporate headquarters.

You might want to contact the Chicago FBI headquarters and the Postal service as mentioned ealier, ASAP.


Good luck and thanks foir the heads up!

 

[SNDSOUL]

Just to answer a few questions.These are conterfiet cashiers checks from a credit uniion in Chicago. I have contacted my local police, the Chicago police, my local bank branch manager, security and fraud division of that bank, the bank from which the cashiers check were from, the FBI and the local post office to file mail fraud charges and they sent me to the local Secret Service office, fraud division. The FBI seemed the least interested and told me to make a report with my local pd. The Chicago pd said they could not do anything until they got the report from my local pd and my local pd said their investigation would probably take 3 weeks before they contacted Chicago pd?? The Secret Service agent was very helpful, but if you can believe this, he asked me to put the guy off for two weeks while he(the agent) went on vacation!!!
It kills me that no one wants to get this guy now, before he moves again. You can read here to see why the banks will take no responsibility.

I might give the "I am going to cancel my accounts " approach a try, b/c I have several accounts with my bank. thanks for the suggestions, keep em coming

 

[jdnsx]

Business insurance policies usually have some built in coverage for fraud and/or counterfeit documents. But sometimes you have to specify the coverage. Check with your agent or file a claim.

 

[lemansnsx]

I might give the "I am going to cancel my accounts " approach a try, b/c I have several accounts with my bank. thanks for the suggestions, keep em coming

Make sure that you do - it is a matter of principle to never continue to do business with a company or institution that costs YOU money through their policies/negligence/incompetence/whatever. In this case I believe that the problem is with the entire banking industry but you need to start with the part of that industry that you can impact - your current bank. Make sure that the CEO gets a copy of the letter outlining why you are moving your business and why you will make a point of broadcasting your experiences to every other business owner that you come in contact with.
Also; in future - keep separate bank accounts for day-to-day operations and main capital and have them in different banks - particularly if you accept credit cards and especially if you take American Express. That way a charge back, lien, or bounced bogus check can't sneak up on you. Learned this one the hard way.

 

[Mr.Wolf]

I’m going to Chicago for ‘business’ in three days. Would you like me to take care of the ‘damages’?

However, the Police won’t find anything afterwards.

 

[sgvnsxrated]

From my experience, being that I used to work at the bank, and did more than my fair share in loss detection and fraud prevention.

Cashiers checks are usually handled by a 3rd party company. For example: You buy the check from the bank, but in actuality, the bank is buying the check from a another company. The whole idea of a cashiers check is that the funds have already been drawn from the purchasers account to purchase the check. This 3rd party company usually within 24hrs can tell you if this has been so. Their systems has info by serial number and amount if the check is good or not. Calling the bank is useless. Under the U.S patriot act they can't tell you if the check is good or not. Only thing they can tell you is that the company/individual has a valid account or not.

Watermarks & logos don't mean $#!t. Anything can be counterfeited. Your basically at a lost. The bank assumes no responsibility in this case. Your best bet is law enforcement such as secret service. I'm sorry to say, but there are thousands and thousands of this type of fraud going on everyday, and they are swamped.

 

[gheba_nsx]

I would never accept checks with protective laws like that!

Credit cards, cash and bank account payments only...

I feel your pain!

 

[Vytas]

When I bought my NSX, the seller agreed for me to do a wire transfer from my account to his. Took one day and the deal was done. If I sell anything of considerable value, I'll go wire transfer only.

 

[sgvnsxrated]

When I bought my NSX, the seller agreed for me to do a wire transfer from my account to his. Took one day and the deal was done. If I sell anything of considerable value, I'll go wire transfer only.

I agree, wire transfers besides cash is probably the safest way to go.

 

[Zishan]

Ship a box with yourself in it and confront him yourself! j/k

Seriously though, sorry to hear about your misfortune. I work in a bank also, and let me tell you, if people can make counterfeit money, you can bet your @SS they can make counterfeit cashiers checks. That's one of my biggest pet peeves, when people think that a cashiers check is as good as cash. To me, cash is the only thing as good as cash. And even then, sometimes that can be fraud also.

I would never accept a cashier’s check as payment. Unless it was at a bank where I have a contact and can 110% verify the validity of the check. And wire transfers are safe, but only to the receiver. If you send a wire transfer to someone and its fraud, forget about ever seeing a cent of that money ever again.

Best of luck, be careful guys,
- Z

 

[NSX-Stalker]

I used to work for a software company that did banking software. I was setting up a new printer for a bank so they sent me some cashiers checks (about 15). All were perfectly legit because they were real checks. I could have printed any amount I wanted on them. They would have been perfectly valid but would have failed to clear eventually.

I am honest and voided all the checks though. Point being is there are many ways to get cashiers checks.

NSX-Stalker