Evap Charcoal Canister Install Help

[cccoltsicehockey]

Looking for some help on trying to put part of my car back together that was apart from the previous two owners. This part was off the car when the last owner bought it and he never got around to installing it. I would like to go about getting any missing pieces to get it installed and figure out how to install it. I hope this will fix the issue I have with pumping gas with fast gas pumps causing overflow and running down the side of the car. I have to right now fill the tank extrmely slow most fime with never more than holding the gas pump open halfway. Lots of time the best way is 1/4 or 1/3 handle squeeze. 10-15min to fill the tank or at least it feels that way.

I have downloaded multiple copies of the service manual but it seems the design of these particular parts changed several times over the life of the NSX. Mine being a 2002 had the final redesign and I have not found a copy of the service manual that has pictures of this exact design.

I know this is where it goes.

Here are pictures of the unit I have. From pictures I have also found of this system for sale on ebay I can tell already that I am missing the mounting bracket for it. This canister accounts for 3 of the hoses and one wiring connector that are lose in my engine bay. The last port on this box appears to connect to the second device in the box of parts I have.

This unit connect to the first with the larger of the hoses I blieve? I mean it at least fits. I have no idea where this unit gets mounted in the engine bay or what either of the other two hoses then mount to.

Hoping that some of you on here might be able to help shed some light on how I go about getting this installed again in the car.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Anyone able to shed any light on this or at least have access to a service manual that gives a look at the 2002+ system so I can see where that second unit connects to.

I have found enough pictures of the bracket needed to fabricate one if I can't find one for a decent price.

 

[NSX_n00b]

Anyone able to shed any light on this or at least have access to a service manual that gives a look at the 2002+ system so I can see where that second unit connects to.

I have found enough pictures of the bracket needed to fabricate one if I can't find one for a decent price.

i mean it doesn't show specifics but it helps give a general idea of where things connect based on the names of the parts. Also has the part numbers for the brackets you need. Hope this helps some..

https://www.oemacuraparts.com/v-200...l-exhaust-heater-fuel--canister-fuel-strainer

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Appreciate that link. Probably going to need to order several of those parts. Still trying to find more resources on it but can't find enough detail. Haven't been able to find a 2002-2005 service manual supplement online either for download. So I finally gave in and ordered a print copy of the 1993 service manual and 2002 Service manual supplement so that I have everything. Don't plan on getting rid of this car anytime soon so I figured it would come in handy. Will be sure to update this thread along the way of this project with everything I learn and parts I need so others will have access to the information.

 

[Old Guy]

1993 service manual and 2002 supplement? For completeness as it applies to your NA2, what you want is the 1997 complete service manual plus the 2002 supplement. 1997 was the last year that Honda did a complete manual. Your 1993 manual can be helpful; but, if you ever need to do engine work or transmission work or fuel injection work (post OBDII) or the later ABS system or later SRS system it will be of no value because it does not include that information. The 2002 supplement only contains information that changed relative to the 1997 manual so best to see if you can return the 1993 manual and purchase the 1997 manual.

Because the evap system changed between 1997 and 2002, the 2002 supplement will likely cover the complete evap system details and allow you to figure out your immediate problem. However, if you plan to do more ambitious things, best to get the 1997 full manual.

 

[drew]

>the 2002 supplement will likely cover the complete evap system details

I have a copy of the 2002 supplement, doesn't seem to have anything on the evap canister.

When this thread posted, I looked and found nothing. I guess I should have posted that as null data can be useful.

 

[Old Guy]

>the 2002 supplement will likely cover the complete evap system details

I have a copy of the 2002 supplement, doesn't seem to have anything on the evap canister.

When this thread posted, I looked and found nothing. I guess I should have posted that as null data can be useful.

That is really odd because the Evap system (at least the North American version) went through a significant change for the 2000 model year (it also changed in 1997 and at least once before that). Not only did the canister change; but, the plumbing associated with the system changed significantly so I would expect that to be covered in the Fuel & Emissions portion of the supplement.

I have the 1997 complete manual with the 2000 supplement and I would check it to see if it covers the Evap system; however, its in the trunk of my NSX which is in secure storage so inaccessible until some time in April.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

So crap I just ordered $100 in manuals from Helm for nothing then. HelmInc didn't show a shop manual available for 1997 on their list. 1993 was the last year they listed available for reprint so I didn't know a newer option was available.

I guess I am still going to be left looking then for the correct way to install these items. I have pretty much figured out most of the process for the top canister, brackets, and tubes. The part I am left trying to figure out is what does the smaller canister that is referred to as a 'filter' actually connect to. The hoses are labled 'Tube, Drain Filter (MT)' so do they just drain to atmospher at that point or do they drain into something I need to have connectors for. The one hose has a broken plastic connector on it still. Also, the MT I would imagine seems to indicate this only applies to manual transmission cars or would you think it refers to something else?

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

That is really odd because the Evap system (at least the North American version) went through a significant change for the 2000 model year (it also changed in 1997 and at least once before that). Not only did the canister change; but, the plumbing associated with the system changed significantly so I would expect that to be covered in the Fuel & Emissions portion of the supplement.

I have the 1997 complete manual with the 2000 supplement and I would check it to see if it covers the Evap system; however, its in the trunk of my NSX which is in secure storage so inaccessible until some time in April.

I found an online copy of the 1997 manual and it shows diagrams that look exactly like the 1997-2001 spec Evap system parts I have found online. I guess it was bad to make an assumption on my part that the 2002 would include updates with new diagram.

The 1997 system seems less involved than the 2002+ system. Not sure it has that filter unit.

 

[Old Guy]

Use the part search link provided by NSXn00b and change the model years. You will see the that the Evap system changed for the 1997 model year and then changed again for the 2000 model year.

If the on-line copy of the service manual is the same one that I have (a active linked .pdf version) which is listed as covering the 1997-2005 model years, that document has deficiencies. Clearly any reference to the 1997-2001 Evap system is in error (for North America) because the 1997 system only lasted from 1997-1999. The 2000 - 2005 systems should all be the same. As you note, the 2000+ system is more complicated than any of the earlier systems. The 1997-1999 does have a dust filter unit; but, it appears to be different in construction and different in location than the 2000+ system. I find it really odd that the 2002 supplement does not cover changes to the Evap system compared to the 1997-1999 system because the changes are significant.

Helms used to sell reprints of the factory service manuals; but, as you note they no longer appear to offer the complete 1997 manual. If you can find a used or original copy of the complete 1997 service manual, I would snap it up quick. I have an original copy of the 1997 FSM (and 2000 supplement) and I can advise that it is much better to work from than the compiled 1997 - 2005 document.

These guys appear to offer the 1997 complete manual for roughly $190. I suspect this might be a reprint rather than the original bound black covered manual.

https://books4cars.com/listings.php?findmake=Acura&model=NSX&year=1997&type=%

These guys appear to have an original 1997 black bound 1997 complete service manual at a rather nose bleed price. I would get them to confirm that they are selling an original bound copy at that price because I would be really P Od if it turned out to be a reprint (the reprints are 3 holed punched for insertion in a binder).

https://diyrepairmanuals.com/product-category/automotive/acura/nsx/1997-nsx/

I cannot advise on the reliability of either vendor.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

With information the information from Old Guy about the fact the 1997 service manual was the last full one I did some more searching online for a manual. Found a online copy I had not seen yet. http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/176172-1997-2005-Service-Manual-Download This copy appears to be a 1997 with the inclusion of an update incert of some year of 2002+

That all being great information it still seems the EVAP canister system is one of the worst documented items in this car. I can find a bunch of information and diagrams showing the EVAP canister and even the older 1997 part showing where it connects to what it calls an air filter. The best pages I can find are 11-5 (pdf page 95), 11-6 (pdf page 96), 11-8 (pdf page 98), 11-58 (pdf page 139), and 11-168 (pdf page 657).

Also managed to get my order cancelled from Helm Inc for the time being. Once I figure out the way to get copies of the right manuals I still prefer having a hard copy for use in the garage vs digital.

Edit: Just saw your post after I responded to an earlier refresh of the forum. Appreciate the information that the 1997-2005 pdf is not complete. I will check out those links in a bit.

 

[Old Guy]

That service manual that you linked appears to be just the 1997 service manual with nothing covering the later years. If you look at the section on the ABS system it is definitely not the 2000+ ABS system and there is nothing covering the 2002+ body changes (I couldn't find the update insert you referred to). It does appear to be a sort of complete 1997 manual; but, it is missing pages. I spotted 11-162 to 11-165 and then 11-168 to 11-176 missing, the latter being kind of critical because that is the section that appears to cover the evap system. So a good; but incomplete find if you are not able to source a hard copy version of the 1997 manual.

The 1997-2005 document I was referring to is a .zip file I got from here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Service_manuals

It can be helpful and does cover some of the items in the 2002+ production runs; but, it is missing an awful lot of material. Much more than the 1997 manual you found.

If you look at pages 11-7, 11-9, 11-131 and 11-167 of the 1997 service manual, you can figure out the connections for the 1997-1999 system. That combined with a comparison of the parts diagrams for 1997 and 2002 from here may allow you to figure out the connections for the 2000+ system.
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/v-200...l-exhaust-heater-fuel--canister-fuel-strainer

I would still get the 2002 supplement. You may find the connection details for the 2000+ evap system scattered through the fuel section of the supplement. If you are prepared to wait until mid April or so, I can check the supplement for my 2000 when it comes out of storage to see if the fuel section provides any details on the later evap system.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Has anyone ever used this system? https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.aspx

Wondering if maybe I need to set a day asside and pay for that service if it might have a digital copy of every year of service manual and also a digital copy of all the supliments. If it works like the system Toyota/Lexus has you can download PDF versions of anything you are looking at. If you wanted to take all day you could individually download every small section of the owners manual. I used the Toyota/Lexus version about 5 times over the life of my IS-F ownership to get various things because the complete set of services manuals even used was around $500 which was crazy.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Finally ordered all the parts I think I need from Tim @ oemacuraparts. Hopefully, I won't need any more cause a few of them related to the EVAP canister mounting are not in stock in the US and have to come from Japan so they will take a while. He was able to find me one additional page in the service manual but still can't find any documents pertaining to the mounting of the lower canister that is listed as a filter.

I think I am going to need to remove the entire air intake and unbolt the fuse box so I can move it around so I can get a better idea of where things go. Also might try and see if I can see anything looking up from the bottom as well once the parts arrive.

Going to grab a 1-day subscription to techinfo.honda this weekend and spend the whole day reading through the 97 manual and every supplement after that and hopefully then should have exhausted all options besides finding another owner with the latest EVAP system to get some pictures from.

More to come.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

I am not trying to pad my post count but I will be keeping this updated in here and my build thread just so as to possibly help someone ever regarding this system in case they are searching.

So I finally received all my parts from Tim @ oemacuraparts. So last night I started to tear the car apart to try and get this all installed before the East Coast meet this weekend. Unfortunately, once I got it all apart I am already not sure there is any hope of getting it put together in time for that so maybe have to button her back up without this stuff installed unless maybe some of you on here can help me figure this out from the pictures. It is also possible the repair job from the accident on the side of the engine bay was done so bad it physically won't fit unless I enlarge the area by massaging it a bit with a hammer. I would really love to be able to normally pump gas one of these days though.

Parts from the motherland. A couple of these were not in stock so I had to wait for them to come from Japan.

Brackets along with the EVAP canisters I already had.

On to the tear down

Carbon rear vent out

Targa brace out

Airbox out

Question #1 - Anyone know if there is supposed to be a cover panel here that I am missing. It kind of looks like it but I couldn't be sure.

Question #2 - I found another hose plugged by a bolt. I believe this small hose might connect to the small port on the secondary EVAP Filter Canister but not sure. If it does it helps explain a little where that canister might mount unless they cut the hose before plugging it. Included a close up picture and a wider view.

By carefully squeezing the EVAP canister in I can get it in this far. It doesn't seem like it is far enough nor do I have any room to connect the hoses are the outer wall side of the engine bay.

Here is what the area for the EVAP system looks like. I think I am going to have to enlarge this area a little bit as it was not repaired well at all. Other options would be to install the EVAP canister without the brackets and just wedge it in there.

I believe the two hardlines in this picture that come from the gas tank should be behind this large wire harness. I believe that might give me some more room to fit the canister.

So this is where I have a big favor to ask. I am wondering if anyone with a 2002-2005 would be willing to remove the Airbox on their car and take a bunch of pictures of the surround area for me? There just really is no good documentation on this system in the car. I have no idea how they would service this system. I am beginning to wonder if the installation instructions for this are in the body repair manual instead of the regular service manual cause I can't imagine Honda not leaving any documentation on how to remove/install it.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Here are the best images I can find from some NSX listings for 2002-2005 for the EVAP canister side of the engine bay.

 

[Old Guy]

OK


My car has been out of storage for a couple of weeks and your latest post indicates that you still have EVAP issues. So, I had a look in my engine compartment and dug out my 2000 service manual supplement. The service manual supplement does detail the testing procedures for the 2000+ EVAP system; however, it doesn't do much in terms of assembly instructions. It has a diagram showing the attachments of the brackets to the EVAP canister which I can scan if that is of some use.

Looking at your photo of your EVAP canister.

View attachment 159721

Follow the red line. I think that fat hose blocked off with something is the line to the vent shut valve on the tank and connects to that large port on the EVAP. Once you reposition that fat line the canister may fit better. The small port on the left just behind that big port (no arrow) goes to the EVAP 2 way valve. I have no clue exactly where the 2 way valve and tank pressure sensor are other than somewhere sort of forward of the engine. However, I am betting that this hose (blue arrow) is the connection from the EVAP canister to the 2 way valve so follow that hose to see if you still have a 2 way valve, evap by pass solenoid and tank pressure sensor (all in roughly the same location).

View attachment 159722

The aqua arrow on the EVAP photo points to the connection to the canister filter which is this thing:
View attachment 159720


On my car the large hose connects to where the aqua arrow is (EVAP shut valve) and the hose then disappears under the engine air filter housing, so the filter is mounted somewhere under there (you can't see where from the top of the car with the filter housing in place). The two small lines on the canister filter are drains and from what I can determine do not connect to anything.

The rust coloured electrical plug on one end of the blue line connects to the electrical plug on the EVAP shut valve.

The green arrow points to the connection to the purge control solenoid. On this photo of my car the red line traces the hose from the EVAP to the solenoid to the tap roughly on top of the throttle body.
View attachment 159719

On you car it looks like the purge solenoid and hoses are still there (red lines); but, its not clear what the EVAP end of the hose connection is attached to - if anything.
View attachment 159718

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Appreciate the diagrams. I understand where the hoses go for the first EVAP canister (the large one). The issue I am having is it appears it needs to sit just a little lower than I am able to get it into in my bay because of the previous damage. Trying to decide if I should just leave it wedged in there and not bother securing it or I should massage the engine bay a little with a hammer to make it fit.

The parts I am not able to figure out is the large hose you describe going under the airbox. I can't find any holes down in that area where the bracket for the filter canister would mount. there are no open holes in any parts of the body around where it looks like that hose travels unless it is under the coolant tank which I am hoping I don't have to remove.

Looking for an opinion here but being that the secondary container is just listed as a filter I would imagine it is just there to help remove the gas smell from any air coming out of the EVAP canister. It also plums those fumes/air down to the lower part of the engine bay. I wonder if I could just put a small breather filter on the evap box where that hose attaches and call it a day. I don't think anything harmful or flamable would be coming out of the EVAP canister. I mean heck older cars long ago didn't even have EVAP systems it is just there to be better for the environment. To get rid of the check engine light I think I only need the first part of the system. Thoughts opinions on this? Other option would be just to zip tie the filter canister to something in the engine bay till I can figure out exactly where it mounts.

Again Old Guy I appreciate the pictures. Are you able to see around the airbox straight down on the back side of it by the control solenoid or maybe snap a picture looking straight down from there that might show some insight?

 

[Old Guy]

I can't find any holes down in that area where the bracket for the filter canister would mount. there are no open holes in any parts of the body around where it looks like that hose travels unless it is under the coolant tank which I am hoping I don't have to remove.

Again Old Guy I appreciate the pictures. Are you able to see around the airbox straight down on the back side of it by the control solenoid or maybe snap a picture looking straight down from there that might show some insight?

In that photograph of the line for the Evap purge solenoid on my car, you can see the large hose to the air filter running down on the top of that metal reenforcement on the left side of the engine bay. The hose goes directly under the engine air filter - no where near the coolant expansion tank. The bottom of the engine air filter box is close enough to the body at that point that you can't see anything under there other than the hose disappearing into that space so a photo of that area would not show anything other than the hose disappearing under the air box.