E85 flex-fuel conversions - anyone tried these ?

[cojones]

Was reading up on some of the current flex-fuel conversions, specifically the kits offered by folks like Flex-Fuel US.

Has anyone looked into these for high-performance applications, specifically high-revving Honda VTEC motors ?

 

[gar123]

Hi,

I plan on going to SEMA show this year to check them out and also ask alot of questions concerning their kit on NSX- if they make them. What's involved in modifications, etc.

GAR123

 

[Commander]

Doesn't seem worth it since the box cost $1295.00 self install and 1495.00 AAMCO installed. I'm no brainiac but let's see, you burn more E85 to make the same if not a little more power, average cost per gallon is around a dollar less than regular unleaded fuel.

I don't see you breaking even on this investment for years if your basing it on fuel cost (I would even go as far to say performance cost either) - The product cost too much and there would definitely be a point of loss of return or no return on investment because your standard fuel injectors can only spray so much fuel before they are saturated and your fuel pump can only pump so much fuel before it also needs replaced. With this being said though, if your building an all out drag car engine than E85 could be a great idea because of the octane level, but then you wouldn't be concerned about mileage or fuel cost.

For higher performance with E85 you could purchase the AEM FIC and high output fuel injectors for around the same money. Granted you wouldn't have the ability to go back and forth between gas and E85 but who would anyway especially if you’re going for performance and the AEM is programmable where as this unit is not. Last time I checked there was no short supply of gas at the station, I only know of two places where I live that sell E85 besides the drag strips. Just my quick opinion, I could have missed something here that I'm not aware of benefit wise...

Was reading up on some of the current flex-fuel conversions, specifically the kits offered by folks like Flex-Fuel US.

Has anyone looked into these for high-performance applications, specifically high-revving Honda VTEC motors ?

 

[devilfish]

Another positive side with E85 that people seems to forget, is the lower emission. And the fact that oil will not last forever.So we need to look beyond fossil fuel. Perhaps not so important on a enthusiasm car as the NSX as it is on your commuting car.
But here in europe the gas is $2.5 per liter ( 1 liter = 0.26 US gallons ).
And E85 is around $1.30 plus alot of tax benefits, so here you can defently bennefit from converting.
Just another side of it..

race on..

 

[Hasdrubal]

Yeah, when peak oil hits, I'm going to convert a Civic or an Accord to lead/acid electric. And keep driving the NSX on gas.

On a more serious note, watch out for E85 being more corrosive. I think it was in the thread from the FI part of the board, someone lays out why it might not be good for this engine.

Nick

 

[Juice]

E85 flex-fuel conversions - dumbest idea ever?

Another positive side with E85 that people seems to forget, is the lower emission. And the fact that oil will not last forever.

Oh, is that a fact? There is proof that oil will not last forever? A product that is created by tectonic shifts is going to stop being produced?

We may be consuming oil faster than we can find it, but that is because we aren't investing into the search. And consuming E85 produces more ppm environmental waste than gasoline.

Let me know when a hydrogen mod and supply become available, then I will show some interest.

 

[Honcho]

Yeah, as greenberet said in the FI thread,the ethanol can corrode certain grades of aluminium, which is why some manufacturers won't certify their legacy engines as ethanol friendly. The two major components affected are the rubber parts in the fuel system and the aluminum components that come into contact with the ethanol. The rubber parts are easily remedied, as you can just offer a retrofit kit with tougher gaskets and o-rings. The problem is the aluminum. Thankfully, the C30B has iron sleeves, which avoids some of the problem. But, the heads are aluminum and I don't think Honda has said whether the particular alloy used is ethanol resistant. They stopped making the NSX in 2005, so I doubt they've even tested or considered it for this engine.

Still, assuming the heads check out, I would consider this mod somewhere down the road, especially if I go FI. I get to pick up a few hp and pollute less...not a bad deal imho.

 

[devilfish]

Re: E85 flex-fuel conversions - dumbest idea ever?

Oh, is that a fact? There is proof that oil will not last forever? A product that is created by tectonic shifts is going to stop being produced?

We may be consuming oil faster than we can find it, but that is because we aren't investing into the search. And consuming E85 produces more ppm environmental waste than gasoline.

Let me know when a hydrogen mod and supply become available, then I will show some interest.

Well, as im not a expert myself one must lissen to what the scientist/geologist etc says. I cant recall I ever heard/read one research regarding fossil fuel that doesent has conerns about how long the oil will last as this consumer rate. So why not look at the alternativ?
And yes, I agree , I dont think E85 is the long term solution,but I do think its the best alternativ today.
Well this whent "off topic" sry..

Sorry for my spelling, Enlighs is not my main language

Regards

 

[Hasdrubal]

Diminshing returns as time goes on will drive prices up. Along the way, we will see more innovative prospecting and recovery methods, in more inhospitable places, but with demand continuing to increase, the prices will continue to rise.

The question about oil is not 'when will we run out,' but 'when will it get so expensive that I have to find something else?'

Look for dramatic improvements in battery tech over the next decade or so, followed by plug-in hybrids like the Chevy Volt. I've heard of some work being done with nanowire lithium batteries that dramatically increases the number of charge cycles they can go through.

There are too many problems with ethanol right now to make it anything more than a feel good answer.

Nick

 

[MikeW]

The abiotic oil debate:

http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/peakoil1.html

But however, I will not convert my NSX to E85. Even though gasoline is much more expensive in germany compared to a lot other countries. I agree that we need to change to alternatives rapidly due to clima and pollution reasons. Therefore I hope more for affordable Li-Io batteries...:biggrin: