Dyno of 1992 NSX w/ BBSC

[Lud]

I've been in Raleigh, NC all week and stopped by the BBSC install garage a couple times as well as attended the "official" dinner last night which had a very impressive turnout!

This is from Romeo Ortiz's car. He had the BBSC installed in Orlando and was in Raleigh getting a software update. The car is a 1992 3.0L with CT headers, Taitec exhaust, no cats, big aftermarket wheels. The car dyno'd yesterday at 397 RWHP after the software update. After just a bit more mojo, they got it to break 400 RWHP this morning. Here is a picture of the plot, sorry for the low res. More dynos from the Raleigh group will be posted within the next week, including some otherwise almost completely stock cars and some with before/after dynos. They are also measuring air/fuel on all the dyno runs as you can see.

 

[NetViper]

That is an impressive amount of power to the wheels!

It looks like they have added a little bit more torque since the NStexPo dyno day report. It is still no where near the levels of Gruppe M or Comptech at low RPM.

I am anxious to see more results! I would also love to see some 0-60, and 0-100 and 0-150 times!

 

[Number9]

Very nice, looks like torque crosses 200 at about 3250 RPM which is getting pretty darn good. What's peak boost on this puppy?

 

[madfast]

wow! I am impressed! Mark. B is the Man! hehehe I gotta save money for one too. hehehe. now let's see some 1/4 mile times. if it does low 11s I am pimping my gf out for money hehehehe

dave

 

[gobble]

Wow! 400 at the rear wheels! What would that be at the crank? That has to be more tha the Z06 Vette. I would like to see a base run to know where the gain is compared to stock.

 

[gobble]

Can anyone answer whether it is possible to trade some of the high end HP for more at the low end? I would like to see it kick in sooner and would be willing to sacrifice some of the high end.

 

[burnmacs]

Nice, what fuel was that run on? Anything done for cooling on the dyno (as if fans & ice make up for no airflow)? Is the near 13.0:1 A/F above 7500rpm normal for the final BBSC release? Finally has the car had any monitoring of timing, knock or EGT's?

I'm sold, I'm selling my single turbo Supra to add another NSX to the stable. I just don't want to go molesting my '97 with mods plus I want just a project car like my Supra has been.

 

[Number9]

Originally posted by gobble:
Can anyone answer whether it is possible to trade some of the high end HP for more at the low end? I would like to see it kick in sooner and would be willing to sacrifice some of the high end.

Pragmatically, no. The centrifugal supercharger is very efficient, but generates boost about in proportion to RPM^2 whereas roots and screw types generate boost roughly linearly with RPM. So you get to pick earlier gains vs. larger, higher RPM gains. My CTSC dynoes better than this car everywhere under 6.5K RPM and worse everywhere over. So pick one and be happy...

 

[erobbins]

Originally posted by gobble:
Wow! 400 at the rear wheels! What would that be at the crank? That has to be more tha the Z06 Vette. I would like to see a base run to know where the gain is compared to stock.

Considering the Z06 is advertised as having 405HP (@6000RPM), this BBSC powered NSX most definetly has more peak HP. Torque, however, is a different thing... the Z06 generates 400 ft. lbs. (@4000RPM).

Even so, I'd be willing to bet that with a properly set up suspension and decent tires that the NSX with a BBSC will give the Z06 a good run for its money. That's why I'm saving my pennies. Lots of them.

EDR

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by gobble:
400 at the rear wheels! What would that be at the crank?

Assuming the same 11 percent powertrain loss as stock, that would be around 450 hp.

 

[Sig]

In reply to what the car made before the supercharger:

I believe it was 270 or 271 hp to the wheels, not sure on the torque though. Think it was in the neighborhood of 200.

 

[TampaBayNSX-R]

Sig is correct. I spoke to Romeo at the Florida install and he said his baseline was 270hp and right about 200 torque. These gains are very impressive and indicative of the BBSC's design potential. Can't wait to see one with the forthcoming aftercooler upgrade strapped on a dynojet!

 

[emvanderpol]

Questions?

If the centrifugal/centripetal sc generates boost relative to the rpm's squared, to enhance the low rpm power, don't you just have to decrease the pulley diameter, add a blow-off valve, and re-map the a/f?

Theoretically, you could be generating 6-psi of boost at 3k rpm's, and keep it at 6-psi with the blow-off valve all the way up to redline.

I know it's a little more difficult than this, but is this generically accurate or just "mathemagic."

I don't know. What do you think?

 

[smoore]

just to let everyone know:

i raced a yellow z06 vette from west palm beach here in tampa and i gave him the move and then we both got on it after him saying "i'll piss on that" after 1st i had cought him up and got a car on him by 2nd i was now 3 cars ahead and by 3rd i was at least 5-6 cars ahead. After stpping at the next light he said "man are you spraying or something" of coarse i said "no" and went on my way.
anyway after messing aroung with Tampabay nsx-R with the bbsc it is my undrstanding that a stock nsx with the bbsc with the outdated programming will still beat a zo6....

[This message has been edited by smoore (edited 18 July 2002).]

 

[Sig]

Smoore-

Do you have the BBSC?

Emvanderpol-

Your thinking is not just theoretical but accruate in practice as well. Not sure on exact boost levels at specific rpm's, but other people have recognized this as a viable flavor.

 

[NSXTech]

Originally posted by emvanderpol:
Questions?

If the centrifugal/centripetal sc generates boost relative to the rpm's squared, to enhance the low rpm power, don't you just have to decrease the pulley diameter, add a blow-off valve, and re-map the a/f?

Theoretically, you could be generating 6-psi of boost at 3k rpm's, and keep it at 6-psi with the blow-off valve all the way up to redline.

I know it's a little more difficult than this, but is this generically accurate or just "mathemagic."

I don't know. What do you think?

It is not only possible, but the test valve and pulley are on my car now. I designed a custom blow off valve, adjustable, and am using approx 9 psi pulley which is set to blow off everything over 6. Power now comes in at about 2600. As soon as I get home from this, my last trip for a while, I will tune it and get it into production. All customers already installed will get the upgrade within a few weeks, FOC of course.

MB

 

[MYNSX]

Originally posted by NSXTech:
It is not only possible, but the test valve and pulley are on my car now. I designed a custom blow off valve, adjustable, and am using approx 9 psi pulley which is set to blow off everything over 6. Power now comes in at about 2600. As soon as I get home from this, my last trip for a while, I will tune it and get it into production. All customers already installed will get the upgrade within a few weeks, FOC of course.

MB

Hey Mark I'll see you next week on the 23rd' for the upgrade.I am already very impressed with the performance of the BBSC.Can you install the upgrade described on MYNSX when we do the 9 lb pulley and "black box"??
MYNSX in AZ (Bill)

 

[Number9]

Originally posted by NSXTech:
It is not only possible, but the test valve and pulley are on my car now. I designed a custom blow off valve, adjustable, and am using approx 9 psi pulley which is set to blow off everything over 6.

Can you do the 9 psi pulley with aftercooler without the BOV? That could be really interesting! BTW, I'm running about 10 psi using a centrifugal SC/aftercooler setup in a relatively high compression 3.0L BMW engine and it's been working reliably w/o detonation.

Emvanderpol, love the way you attempted to correct the blower nomenclature, LOL! Might you be a physicist? Sadly, the fictitious force has found its way into the lexicon and is the proper term for this type of SC.

[This message has been edited by Number9 (edited 18 July 2002).]

 

[cojones]

Originally posted by Number9:
Can you do the 9 psi pulley with aftercooler without the BOV?

probably still need to set the BOV, but set to blow off at a higher level (~11 lbs for an un-reinforced block). And alter A/F maps, yada-yada

That could be really interesting!
You bet.

 

[gobble]

Originally posted by NSXTech:
I designed a custom blow off valve, adjustable, and am using approx 9 psi pulley which is set to blow off everything over 6. Power now comes in at about 2600.
MB

This is very good news (for me at least). Is there any high end loss? Any trade offs to this approach?

 

[O-Ace]

Wow...very impressive. By the time I buy my NSX, all the testing/tuning will be done

Btw, the stock 2002 Z06 puts down 350-360 hp/tq to the wheels. It'd be an interesting race since the Z06 gets the power earlier in the RPM range.

 

[emvanderpol]

Three cheers for MB!! Hip-Hip...........

O.K., enough said.

Now, let us cut to the chase. When can we expect said mechanical go-faster sooner thingies.

 

[Number9]

Originally posted by gobble:
This is very good news (for me at least). Is there any high end loss? Any trade offs to this approach?

Potentially higher parasitic HP loss due to the engine having to turn the blower faster (w/o commensurate gain in charge density when BOV is in effect) and potential efficiency loss (i.e., hotter air charge) for the blower when working at the higher blower RPM, but heck who knows, let's just measure the thing when it's ready and we'll find out.

 

[smoore]

i'm using nitrous.

 

[NoClgDeg]

Would you mind pasting together your before and after dyno plots so we can see exactly where the charger starts and continues to make power? Thanks!

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91 Red/Ivory #2061