does the Type-R sit lower than a normal NSX?
- Thread starter 710
- Start date
Visually it looks no different. In fact, a little higher where we fitted brand new R shocks/springs.
thanks Rob,
Actually the reason I want to know is this, maybe you can shed some light on the matter (skip to the last sentence for short version):
I am fitting my big brakes.
To fit these brakes, I will order 17" wheels on the front.
These bigger wheels will make the total diameter of the tyres bigger from 1991 stock 586mm to 616mm diameter , 23" to 24.6 " from stock 15".
And from 2002+ models' 604mm to 616mm diameter or 23.8" to 24.6"
The car will sit higher off the road surface by about 3/4 inch.
To correct this, I will have to lower the car 3/4 or 1/2 inch using shorter springs or coil-overs.
This will make the suspension sit in droop, or "bump" all the time. And this why I wrote this question.
My car handles so well now with the stock 15" wheels (1991) setup that I am afraid of hurting the handling by running in "bump" all the time with the bigger wheels.
As some of you know I don't really care how the car looks, well a bit (brakes and wheels), but it's the great handling that is important; I drive the car hard, having to stay ahead of my friends' Cosworths, Lotuses, Porsche etc in the hills and at the Ring etc. And currently the NSX is fantastic at being able to brake hard at the limit in a bumpy undulating surface, sliding and squirming predictably. It brings a smile to my face. I don't want to lose this by running in bump all the time.
So when the car's suspension is always in "bump", the handling might suffer.
Question: does it suffer?? Maybe lowering it 1/2 to 3/4 inch is inconsequential. Some of you circuit racing guys might know.
So I thought maybe the Type-R had lower suspension, thus I would copy this and lower my car the same and no more, trusting in the Honda engineers (or Ayrton Senna).
Now I find that the Type-r ride height is about the same, but I understand the latest Type-R had 215/40-17 at the front. 40 series tyres. So they must have lowered the suspension a bit. They must run in bump a bit.
Well, I wanted to use 45 series tyres because of pot holes and things, in the hills that we race in the roads have potholes and things in them sometimes, and anyway sometimes in emergency we are forced to cut the corners a bit.
This is not good for 40 series tyres. 40 series are ok on the track, or for careful driving. The Type-R has 215/40-17 on the front. Should be ok for rubbing, with a diameter of 603mm (23.8").
45 series is the minimum for the hills I believe, and this is the problem. Currently I have 50 series (stock 15" wheels) and these survive very well, never had a problem even when hitting loose rocks.
(incidentally, I want to stay with about the same width because the car is very good in the rain, much wider tyres will make it aquaplane more. 215s are probably a better choice but they have a bigger diameter, may rub even more.)
Problem:
205/45-17 are the same width as my tyres now, but with a diameter of 616mm (24.3") still may rub. Question: does anybody know if it will rub under hard braking or turning?
(Yes, I know that using smaller brake discs and 16 wheels will solve all the problems. But I want to at least investigate the possibilities of 17" wheels before I give up and go with 16" wheels.)
This started out as a Type-R or racing question and has now become a "Wheels and Tyres" question. whew. Sorry about that.
To boil the long winded question down:
Will lowering the car by 3/4 inch (so it sits in droop, or bump by 3/4" more than stock) affect its handling especially on bumpy or undulating roads? (note, I don't presume to be a "Senna" so maybe I won't notice. But maybe I will especially if it rubs badly in extreme conditions. And the ring and other places take the car to extremes)
Peter
Actually the reason I want to know is this, maybe you can shed some light on the matter (skip to the last sentence for short version):
I am fitting my big brakes.
To fit these brakes, I will order 17" wheels on the front.
These bigger wheels will make the total diameter of the tyres bigger from 1991 stock 586mm to 616mm diameter , 23" to 24.6 " from stock 15".
And from 2002+ models' 604mm to 616mm diameter or 23.8" to 24.6"
The car will sit higher off the road surface by about 3/4 inch.
To correct this, I will have to lower the car 3/4 or 1/2 inch using shorter springs or coil-overs.
This will make the suspension sit in droop, or "bump" all the time. And this why I wrote this question.
My car handles so well now with the stock 15" wheels (1991) setup that I am afraid of hurting the handling by running in "bump" all the time with the bigger wheels.
As some of you know I don't really care how the car looks, well a bit (brakes and wheels), but it's the great handling that is important; I drive the car hard, having to stay ahead of my friends' Cosworths, Lotuses, Porsche etc in the hills and at the Ring etc. And currently the NSX is fantastic at being able to brake hard at the limit in a bumpy undulating surface, sliding and squirming predictably. It brings a smile to my face. I don't want to lose this by running in bump all the time.
So when the car's suspension is always in "bump", the handling might suffer.
Question: does it suffer?? Maybe lowering it 1/2 to 3/4 inch is inconsequential. Some of you circuit racing guys might know.
So I thought maybe the Type-R had lower suspension, thus I would copy this and lower my car the same and no more, trusting in the Honda engineers (or Ayrton Senna).
Now I find that the Type-r ride height is about the same, but I understand the latest Type-R had 215/40-17 at the front. 40 series tyres. So they must have lowered the suspension a bit. They must run in bump a bit.
Well, I wanted to use 45 series tyres because of pot holes and things, in the hills that we race in the roads have potholes and things in them sometimes, and anyway sometimes in emergency we are forced to cut the corners a bit.
This is not good for 40 series tyres. 40 series are ok on the track, or for careful driving. The Type-R has 215/40-17 on the front. Should be ok for rubbing, with a diameter of 603mm (23.8").
45 series is the minimum for the hills I believe, and this is the problem. Currently I have 50 series (stock 15" wheels) and these survive very well, never had a problem even when hitting loose rocks.
(incidentally, I want to stay with about the same width because the car is very good in the rain, much wider tyres will make it aquaplane more. 215s are probably a better choice but they have a bigger diameter, may rub even more.)
Problem:
205/45-17 are the same width as my tyres now, but with a diameter of 616mm (24.3") still may rub. Question: does anybody know if it will rub under hard braking or turning?
(Yes, I know that using smaller brake discs and 16 wheels will solve all the problems. But I want to at least investigate the possibilities of 17" wheels before I give up and go with 16" wheels.)
This started out as a Type-R or racing question and has now become a "Wheels and Tyres" question. whew. Sorry about that.
To boil the long winded question down:
Will lowering the car by 3/4 inch (so it sits in droop, or bump by 3/4" more than stock) affect its handling especially on bumpy or undulating roads? (note, I don't presume to be a "Senna" so maybe I won't notice. But maybe I will especially if it rubs badly in extreme conditions. And the ring and other places take the car to extremes)
Peter
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I wouldn't recommend the Type R suspension to anyone in Europe. It is incredibly harsh, and in some respect makes the handling worse. You can achieve a better drive my simply playing with geometry first.
For the money, it is not effective either. It may be a famous 'Type R' piece, but the suspension is no match for a quality aftermarket coil-over kit for the same price.
The Nitron's we had on our first NSX were amazing, and i believe comparable in price despite the additional range of adjustment. Also made from aluminium, so light and won't corrode.
http://www.nitron.co.uk/nitron09/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_17_59
I'm not sure on prices, but Quantum (they make the shocks for the Super GT NSXs) are measuring up our Type R replica for a kit... so i can provide you details on this when available.
I would say pretty much any other coil over kit is better than Honda's own though. The key is the complication of setting the suspension up...
For the money, it is not effective either. It may be a famous 'Type R' piece, but the suspension is no match for a quality aftermarket coil-over kit for the same price.
The Nitron's we had on our first NSX were amazing, and i believe comparable in price despite the additional range of adjustment. Also made from aluminium, so light and won't corrode.
http://www.nitron.co.uk/nitron09/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_17_59
I'm not sure on prices, but Quantum (they make the shocks for the Super GT NSXs) are measuring up our Type R replica for a kit... so i can provide you details on this when available.
I would say pretty much any other coil over kit is better than Honda's own though. The key is the complication of setting the suspension up...
THe Nitrons are suppose to be pretty good. The Lotus crowd loves them.
I agree (and am putting my flame suit on) that the NSX-R suspension is good, but for the price -you can get better performance and a better ride quality out of a good aftermarket coilover.
0.02
I would what to keep my shocks and spring settings about stock. Having said that, I have not yet tried NSX with any other suspension, so maybe i don't know what I am missing. You guys do.
The stock shocks and spring rates are not harsh, I find them comfortable. Maybe a bit soft, but I like them. And with 150,000km on the shocks, they still hold the car very steady, well, steady enough to be able to keep the car under control even when the road tries to throw the car off it.
And when I drive long distances, I am happy I still have the stock settings. In the past year I have done I don't know how many kms between the middle on Germany and the Belgium border, maybe 20,000kms, at around 220kph for hours it seems. The car handles that beautifully (with stock suspension).
I am very curious though, what do you mean by "setting the suspension setup"? Is it possible to alter the A-arm mounting point positions, caster etc?
If so, this would mean that I can compensate a bit for the over sized diameters of the tyres. I would not what to change it much from stock though.
Since writing the original post, I have also come to the conclusion that maybe having the car 1/2 inch higher than normal, or maybe 1/4 inch, might save me some money in broken spoilers. Especially when I go to Holland! (as you know!)
So to summarise, I would be looking for either coil-overs or slightly shorter springs. Slightly shorter springs can be made easily at a spring company. But coil-overs would be handy and easy to get the height right.
And the shock settings I would want would be close to stock, so softish. But again, I know how handy adjustable shocks can be, as long as I don't get lost in the forest of adjustments, so to speak.
Peter
The stock shocks and spring rates are not harsh, I find them comfortable. Maybe a bit soft, but I like them. And with 150,000km on the shocks, they still hold the car very steady, well, steady enough to be able to keep the car under control even when the road tries to throw the car off it.
And when I drive long distances, I am happy I still have the stock settings. In the past year I have done I don't know how many kms between the middle on Germany and the Belgium border, maybe 20,000kms, at around 220kph for hours it seems. The car handles that beautifully (with stock suspension).
I am very curious though, what do you mean by "setting the suspension setup"? Is it possible to alter the A-arm mounting point positions, caster etc?
If so, this would mean that I can compensate a bit for the over sized diameters of the tyres. I would not what to change it much from stock though.
Since writing the original post, I have also come to the conclusion that maybe having the car 1/2 inch higher than normal, or maybe 1/4 inch, might save me some money in broken spoilers. Especially when I go to Holland! (as you know!)
So to summarise, I would be looking for either coil-overs or slightly shorter springs. Slightly shorter springs can be made easily at a spring company. But coil-overs would be handy and easy to get the height right.
And the shock settings I would want would be close to stock, so softish. But again, I know how handy adjustable shocks can be, as long as I don't get lost in the forest of adjustments, so to speak.
Peter
By the sounds of it you will very disappointed with the Type R suspension, even on those smooth roads near Spa Francorchamps!
Of course, putting coilovers on and setting them at a height that you like visually could result in odd handling characteristics. Really, you will only find out when you push to the limit. You can adjust pretty much all geometry settings easily on the NSX.
By the way, Nitron took our stock NSX suspension and NSX-R suspension to develop their kits. The kit was pretty much as soft as stock yet performed well on track (it was the track spec damper) I'm not trying to be a fan-boy of them, because i'm sure many coil-kits are good, but it's the only one i've tried.
I'm sure Billy would agree, just because it came from Honda, doesn't mean it's better than aftermarket. The Type R suspension gives a good lap time at the expense of being a good road car. They couldn't justify passing on the cost of dampers that are $4/5k a set.
Of course, putting coilovers on and setting them at a height that you like visually could result in odd handling characteristics. Really, you will only find out when you push to the limit. You can adjust pretty much all geometry settings easily on the NSX.
By the way, Nitron took our stock NSX suspension and NSX-R suspension to develop their kits. The kit was pretty much as soft as stock yet performed well on track (it was the track spec damper) I'm not trying to be a fan-boy of them, because i'm sure many coil-kits are good, but it's the only one i've tried.
I'm sure Billy would agree, just because it came from Honda, doesn't mean it's better than aftermarket. The Type R suspension gives a good lap time at the expense of being a good road car. They couldn't justify passing on the cost of dampers that are $4/5k a set.
Do you really have a 26R by the way? You should get some pictures up by the way...
Also, was it you looking for a shorter LHD or RHD steering rack?
Also, was it you looking for a shorter LHD or RHD steering rack?
yes Rob, a 26R in pieces. Totally stripped. New body from Tony Thompson. Have all the other parts except the chassis. Working on the chassis. Project number 3,052,287. What a cute little car. Here is a picture of Tony in his 26R (an S1):
And here is a picture at Spa of what mine will look like one day (an S2):
BTW before I forget, next weekend are historic races in Spa. Lots of beautiful cars will be there from all over the world. Including lots of 26Rs! Well 5 or 6. Only cost €20 and that gets you in EVERYWHERE, paddock etc, and it's easy to accidentally wander into the pits too. All very informal, like it was 50 years ago. You should hop over. I'll be there partly for both days, we could meet somewhere again.
Steering, yes, next week I get a part back from machining. It is not the rack I'm making anymore, too many needed (manual LHD, manual RHD, power LHD, power RHD, too many racks).
It is a kit that, when you saw the steering arms off your uprights (in situ, only remove the brake rotor), you connect my steering arms of varying lengths with 2 bolts, and a bracket with 3 bolts.
It's the jig for sawing off the existing arms and drilling a hole in the upright that I should have next week. The jig I will include in every kit. Quaife will machine the critical parts.
Thanks for your advice on the Type-R suspension and ride height. I'll go with the 17" wheels on the front with 45 series tyres (205 or 215). And take the risk on rubbing a bit.
I can always change to 40 series later if the 45s rub. Then while away from home racing in the hills I'll carry a spare front tyre in the boot. And adjust the ride height to be the same as now. And run a bit in bump. If running in bump is not good, then I will raise the car 1/4" to let the suspension run at normal level.
I'm still really curious to hear from other circuit racers if they have lowered their NSXes or are running 17" with 45 series tyres.
Peter
And here is a picture at Spa of what mine will look like one day (an S2):
BTW before I forget, next weekend are historic races in Spa. Lots of beautiful cars will be there from all over the world. Including lots of 26Rs! Well 5 or 6. Only cost €20 and that gets you in EVERYWHERE, paddock etc, and it's easy to accidentally wander into the pits too. All very informal, like it was 50 years ago. You should hop over. I'll be there partly for both days, we could meet somewhere again.
Steering, yes, next week I get a part back from machining. It is not the rack I'm making anymore, too many needed (manual LHD, manual RHD, power LHD, power RHD, too many racks).
It is a kit that, when you saw the steering arms off your uprights (in situ, only remove the brake rotor), you connect my steering arms of varying lengths with 2 bolts, and a bracket with 3 bolts.
It's the jig for sawing off the existing arms and drilling a hole in the upright that I should have next week. The jig I will include in every kit. Quaife will machine the critical parts.
Thanks for your advice on the Type-R suspension and ride height. I'll go with the 17" wheels on the front with 45 series tyres (205 or 215). And take the risk on rubbing a bit.
I can always change to 40 series later if the 45s rub. Then while away from home racing in the hills I'll carry a spare front tyre in the boot. And adjust the ride height to be the same as now. And run a bit in bump. If running in bump is not good, then I will raise the car 1/4" to let the suspension run at normal level.
I'm still really curious to hear from other circuit racers if they have lowered their NSXes or are running 17" with 45 series tyres.
Peter
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If you see my friend Roberto Giordanelli at Spa in his 26R, please say hi to him! He has raced his Elan very successfully since buying it a year or so ago...
Maybe you've already met, as i see he is mention on Tony's website.
He can also give you recommendiations on the NSX, considering he helped develop it...
I will be with Britcar at Spa next year i'm sure, or maybe with Dutch Super Cars or Lotus Trophy. We'll have to meet up.
Good luck with the NSX suspension! We're getting a RHD make made up right about now by Tilton. I now remember your solution... it sounds like a good idea.
Maybe you've already met, as i see he is mention on Tony's website.
He can also give you recommendiations on the NSX, considering he helped develop it...
I will be with Britcar at Spa next year i'm sure, or maybe with Dutch Super Cars or Lotus Trophy. We'll have to meet up.
Good luck with the NSX suspension! We're getting a RHD make made up right about now by Tilton. I now remember your solution... it sounds like a good idea.
710: What's your ride height front and rear (measured at the front and rear jacking points -to the ground)?
Billy,
what height do you recommend f and r with a height adjustable coilover? and that would be from bottom of jack point? the tab sticks down from car good 1/4 inch i think. thanks.
what height do you recommend f and r with a height adjustable coilover? and that would be from bottom of jack point? the tab sticks down from car good 1/4 inch i think. thanks.
It depends on many factors primarily what size wheels and tires you are running. Problems with excessive camber gain, too low of roll centers, and bumpsteer are greatly different between 15/16" wheels and 18/19" wheels.
at the track running 15/16 because they fit in the car for transport to/from track. 
don't do much street driving except to get to and from track with 16/17. comptech pro suspension and sways, non compliant rear beam and links, nsxr chassis bar.
don't do much street driving except to get to and from track with 16/17. comptech pro suspension and sways, non compliant rear beam and links, nsxr chassis bar.
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stock at the moment (has the stock wheels and tyres on, no suspension changes)
This is exactly what I figured, thanks Billy.
When I go to 17/18 wheels and tyres (they are 18mm bigger diameter than stock) , the car will sit 9mm higher off the ground using 40series tyres (or 15mm higher off the ground using 45 series!).
According to prime members, 45 series will rub: "anything over 24" diameter will rub" says one Prime member and it is backed up by what another told me, 225/40-17 will rub, (which has 24" diameter).
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126477
So I will have to use a 40 series, too fragile IMO, and carry an extra front tyre in the boot on long trips.
SUSPENSION:
So when I put 215/40-17 on the front, the car will sit 9mm higher off the ground than now, and the (effective) roll centres have changed right there!
So then I lower the car, because it looks dorky when sitting 9mm higher in the air.
But now things gets even worse when I lower the car, the suspension sits in 9mm droop / bump and not only the roll centres change again, but the entire suspension geometry is changed, including the bump steer (or lack of) which Senna granted us. Gawd knows, I dont want to f**k THAT up.
When people put 18/19s on, all the geometry must have changed a hell of a lot!
That is why I originally asked what Honda decided with the Type-R.
Honda decided 215/40-17 are ok.
But they also had to lower the car 9mm so it wouldn't sit high in the air (compared to Senna's NSX which had 205/50-15 on).
So their suspension geometry has changed a lot, but judging by the results they have with the car it has not degraded the handling at all. In fact it got better. This is difficult to believe, that Senna got it wrong.
So now the next questions, on the Type-R suspension:
-Did they change any A-arm mounting points?
-Is the Type-R front cross member a different part number (this is the mount for the A-arm AND steering rack, and it should be 9mm different).
-Or did they raise the steering rack in the chassis with different bushes to hold the bump steer position? Has anybody noticed a difference in steering rack bushing part numbers for the Type-R?
-Steering rack bracket and bush changed?
-A-Arms changed?
-Eccentric bolts for the A-arms changed?
-Compliance Pivot Assembly, different or the same?
Just changing the front cross member would raise the rack and the A-arm mounting points (relative to the body), and this would solve the 9mm height difference problem. Type-R X-member has a different part number?
Or did Honda simply just slam the car 9mm and leave it at that?
710: its good that you are looking into it that in depth, but you are reading WAY too much into it.
First off no the NSX-R dosnt have revised cross braces, control arms, pick-up points, nor raised the steering rack.
You need to look at industry trends and how the NSX evolved over time. You need to take into consideration that at the time the NSX was designed, 15 and 16"" wheels were considered large while 205 and 225 width tires were wide. Both of which are now obselete by todays standards. The NSX had the biggest uprights and brake rotors that could be fit under those limitations. Ride quality and spring rates are also a compromise in a street car. Over time the NSX's wheels and tires grew to 17" and much wider. Spring rates, swaybars, dampers, brake sizes and more also advanced to modern standards. Larger wheels were needed to keep the car looking more modern while increasing the performance of the car. A larger diameter wheel makes more grip as does a wider tire. With larger wheels can fit larger brakes. For the most part, OEM manufacturers haven't made the brakes on production cars as powerful as they should. Only recently have automakers put more needed attention to the brake systems. In the 80s and 90s, almost all cars (except maybe Porsche -who was known for their high performing brakes) were under-braked, and not up to the same level of performance as the rest of the car. The NSX is no different.
To get back to your question, cars are designed to have the suspension work in a specific operating range. This range is centered around the cars ride height which is often determined for streetability purposes.
The NSX-R has much higher spring rates than the original car, the higher rates = less suspension travel when cornering. In effect, the NSX-R still works in an acceptable range of travel, with the original pickup points.
Take it a step further to the Turbocharges Spoon NSX-R GT that I drove with a far lower ride height than the NSX-R, with more camber and even stiffer springs. With the higher rates and more camber! The car reduces travel when cornering and lowers the cars Center of Gravity even further (good) while also lowering the roll center. The NSX-R GT handles better than the NSX-R despite possibly approaching the edge of acceptable operating range.
Lowering the cars Center of Gravity by lowering the car is a good thing. Lowering the roll center affexts the roll stiffness of the car. This means a 500lb spring will act like a softer spring with a greatly lowered roll center. Lowering the RC isn't too bad until the geometric point goes below the ground. We at FXMD calculated this point as well as the cars camber-gain and bumpsteer during through its range of motion.
You can lower the NSX more than the NSX-R without too many problems. Rear camber-gain can become an issue but the Thoms kit can fix that. But as you approach the limit, higher spring rates are necessary to keep the roll resistance in check.
The NSX-R is an iconic car for Honda. Yes it performs a lot better than the original car Senna drove. If you want your car to be like how Senna drove it, theirs nothing wrong with that, but the tires, brakes, and handling will be out-dated at a lower performance level.
It dosnt take a whole lot to make a NSX out-handle the NSX-R.235/275 width tires, wider 17/17 or 17/18" wheels and a good set of suspension and alignment can out perform the mighty NSX-R, similarly a S2000 can handle better than the CR with similar modifications.
KW tested their coilovers on an NSX-R at the nurburgring to be faster than the NSX-R. And that's with a far better ride quality and adjustable damping through modern technology. There are also other dampers out there that are better than the NSX-R, but is the name or performance more important to you (no wrong answer, its all personal preference, tastes, objectives)
Don't get me wrong, I think the NSX-R is an awesome car, but its prestige often clouds reality.
First off no the NSX-R dosnt have revised cross braces, control arms, pick-up points, nor raised the steering rack.
You need to look at industry trends and how the NSX evolved over time. You need to take into consideration that at the time the NSX was designed, 15 and 16"" wheels were considered large while 205 and 225 width tires were wide. Both of which are now obselete by todays standards. The NSX had the biggest uprights and brake rotors that could be fit under those limitations. Ride quality and spring rates are also a compromise in a street car. Over time the NSX's wheels and tires grew to 17" and much wider. Spring rates, swaybars, dampers, brake sizes and more also advanced to modern standards. Larger wheels were needed to keep the car looking more modern while increasing the performance of the car. A larger diameter wheel makes more grip as does a wider tire. With larger wheels can fit larger brakes. For the most part, OEM manufacturers haven't made the brakes on production cars as powerful as they should. Only recently have automakers put more needed attention to the brake systems. In the 80s and 90s, almost all cars (except maybe Porsche -who was known for their high performing brakes) were under-braked, and not up to the same level of performance as the rest of the car. The NSX is no different.
To get back to your question, cars are designed to have the suspension work in a specific operating range. This range is centered around the cars ride height which is often determined for streetability purposes.
The NSX-R has much higher spring rates than the original car, the higher rates = less suspension travel when cornering. In effect, the NSX-R still works in an acceptable range of travel, with the original pickup points.
Take it a step further to the Turbocharges Spoon NSX-R GT that I drove with a far lower ride height than the NSX-R, with more camber and even stiffer springs. With the higher rates and more camber! The car reduces travel when cornering and lowers the cars Center of Gravity even further (good) while also lowering the roll center. The NSX-R GT handles better than the NSX-R despite possibly approaching the edge of acceptable operating range.
Lowering the cars Center of Gravity by lowering the car is a good thing. Lowering the roll center affexts the roll stiffness of the car. This means a 500lb spring will act like a softer spring with a greatly lowered roll center. Lowering the RC isn't too bad until the geometric point goes below the ground. We at FXMD calculated this point as well as the cars camber-gain and bumpsteer during through its range of motion.
You can lower the NSX more than the NSX-R without too many problems. Rear camber-gain can become an issue but the Thoms kit can fix that. But as you approach the limit, higher spring rates are necessary to keep the roll resistance in check.
The NSX-R is an iconic car for Honda. Yes it performs a lot better than the original car Senna drove. If you want your car to be like how Senna drove it, theirs nothing wrong with that, but the tires, brakes, and handling will be out-dated at a lower performance level.
It dosnt take a whole lot to make a NSX out-handle the NSX-R.235/275 width tires, wider 17/17 or 17/18" wheels and a good set of suspension and alignment can out perform the mighty NSX-R, similarly a S2000 can handle better than the CR with similar modifications.
KW tested their coilovers on an NSX-R at the nurburgring to be faster than the NSX-R. And that's with a far better ride quality and adjustable damping through modern technology. There are also other dampers out there that are better than the NSX-R, but is the name or performance more important to you (no wrong answer, its all personal preference, tastes, objectives)
Don't get me wrong, I think the NSX-R is an awesome car, but its prestige often clouds reality.
Yes, you have some very good points. Your comments about the GT suspension are very interesting to hear too.
As I went deeper into this, it was becoming more apparent that the 9mm wasn't going to be a problem.
It is clearer to me now what I need to do. It's nice to hear from other people who have experience with suspension geometry.
Thanks everybody.
As I went deeper into this, it was becoming more apparent that the 9mm wasn't going to be a problem.
It is clearer to me now what I need to do. It's nice to hear from other people who have experience with suspension geometry.
Thanks everybody.
All more "sportive" (Type-S/ Type-R) OE NSX suspension versions will drop the car a little as compared to the standard suspension.
I have the "new type-S" suspension on my car and am very happy with it, very firm without being too harsh.
It lowered my NSX about 1,5 Cm - 3/4 inch)
Only downside was that I already had a Type-R stabalizer bar installed, but with the S-suspension this caused understeer. I re-installed the front OE stabalizer and put the OE Type-S rear stabalizer on. This setup cancelled the understeer and I am extremely happy with it.
I guess the Honda engineers knew what they did with setting up the Type-R and Type-S suspensions packages differently.
By the way, I have a Bilstein setup for sale if you are interested (am in The Netherlands, so close to you), reason: I like the S-type setup a lot better
I have the "new type-S" suspension on my car and am very happy with it, very firm without being too harsh.
It lowered my NSX about 1,5 Cm - 3/4 inch)
Only downside was that I already had a Type-R stabalizer bar installed, but with the S-suspension this caused understeer. I re-installed the front OE stabalizer and put the OE Type-S rear stabalizer on. This setup cancelled the understeer and I am extremely happy with it.
I guess the Honda engineers knew what they did with setting up the Type-R and Type-S suspensions packages differently.
By the way, I have a Bilstein setup for sale if you are interested (am in The Netherlands, so close to you), reason: I like the S-type setup a lot better
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I guess that is the bilsteins with 2 height positions, right?
How hard is the Bilstein setup compared to stock?
I used to go up to Zoeteemer a lot, not much any more, pity. But wait, I need to go to Buitelaar (do you know them, tools, Waddinxveen) so I'll PM you when I go, ok?
Peter
Yep, the Bilsteins are with 2 height perches.
I tried them with (currently fitted) H&R sports springs which lowered the car too much (4,5 Cm) for driving on our Dutch streets with speedbumps, scraping the spoiler lip all the time. With these springs it was more track orientated, too harsh for my taste.
I guess that with standard NSX springs height on high perch is like standard and on lower perch is about 1,5-2 cm drop, which will be a lot better and probably just a little stiffer than OE.
As I could at that moment get a new Type-S suspension pack for a very good price direct from Japan, I didn't bother to try the Bilsteins with the OE springs, just took the Bilstein/H&R setup off the car and are stored ever since. Have been used for about 5000 Km, so very good cond.
I live just 10 KM from Zoetermeer, know the toolshop you are talking about too, is in Waddinxveen, also about 15 Km from my home.
If you are in the area, don't hesitate to contact me, we could meet.:smile:
I tried them with (currently fitted) H&R sports springs which lowered the car too much (4,5 Cm) for driving on our Dutch streets with speedbumps, scraping the spoiler lip all the time. With these springs it was more track orientated, too harsh for my taste.
I guess that with standard NSX springs height on high perch is like standard and on lower perch is about 1,5-2 cm drop, which will be a lot better and probably just a little stiffer than OE.
As I could at that moment get a new Type-S suspension pack for a very good price direct from Japan, I didn't bother to try the Bilsteins with the OE springs, just took the Bilstein/H&R setup off the car and are stored ever since. Have been used for about 5000 Km, so very good cond.
I live just 10 KM from Zoetermeer, know the toolshop you are talking about too, is in Waddinxveen, also about 15 Km from my home.
If you are in the area, don't hesitate to contact me, we could meet.:smile:
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