Does RLX mean bad news for NSX

[NetViper]

Looking at the press release, the 3.5l v6 only makes 310hp, and the two electric motors make a combined 60 more hp. In other words, not very much.

I would guess the NSX electric motors will probably be very similar if not the exact same as these.

So that means the 3.5 will have to make 420hp if they want to get the 480hp that has been talked about.

How likely is that?

What do you guys think?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/04/acura-rlx-concept-revealed-new-york-2012/

 

[docjohn]

a 3.5L motor would have to make 120hp/L which they have done in the S2000......still they will need to knock somebodies socks off with something noteworthy/surprising to justify the expected pricetag.

 

[sahtt]

Looking at the press release, the 3.5l v6 only makes 310hp, and the two electric motors make a combined 60 more hp. In other words, not very much.

I would guess the NSX electric motors will probably be very similar if not the exact same as these.

So that means the 3.5 will have to make 420hp if they want to get the 480hp that has been talked about.

How likely is that?

What do you guys think?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/04/acura-rlx-concept-revealed-new-york-2012/

Would not expect a 3.5ltr from honda to produce 420hp+. Not that I do not think they have the ability to, more so that they are very conservative engine builders for road cars. Anything over 100hp/ltr is probably wishful thinking. The only way I could see justification is if they produce a 3.5-4ltr that revs to the roof with terrible low end but formidable peak power (think F20C on steroids) but have the electric motors to make lower RPM driving acceptable.

 

[docjohn]

formula 1 will be going to a turbocharged formula in 1-2 years,so maybe the new nsx engine will be boosted.

 

[NetViper]

formula 1 will be going to a turbocharged formula in 1-2 years,so maybe the new nsx engine will be boosted.

500hp 3.5l turbo with 60hp electric would be pretty sweet.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

60hp electric motors that can run FLAT OUT on the track for 20 minutes straight would be pretty sweet.

500hp 3.5l turbo with 60hp electric would be pretty sweet.

 

[BD]

Well, it is the SOHC engine, can't do much with that.... But it is an interesting concept... It will either catch on or plunge down to the bottom of the ocean...

 

[HBui39]

going to a DOHC will certainly net more power, but the electric motors can certainly produce more than that. i don't see why you should worry about the numbers based on this... but you can certainly still worry about the NSX sucking up until reviews come out.

 

[chrisbailey13]

Looking at the press release, the 3.5l v6 only makes 310hp, and the two electric motors make a combined 60 more hp. In other words, not very much.

I would guess the NSX electric motors will probably be very similar if not the exact same as these.

So that means the 3.5 will have to make 420hp if they want to get the 480hp that has been talked about.

How likely is that?

What do you guys think?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/04/acura-rlx-concept-revealed-new-york-2012/

Not sure the specs of the RLX will directly affect the NSX...consider that in 1991 the Legend posted
Horsepower: 200 hp @ 5500 rpm
Torque: 210 ft-lbs. @ 4500 rpm
with a 3.2L engine compared to the 1991 NSX's

Horsepower: 270 hp @ 7100 rpm
Torque: 210 ft-lbs. @ 5300 rpm
with a 3.0 L engine, I am sure the Honda Power Gods will figure something out to get more power out of the motors.

 

[effer]

The NSX 2 will be Honda's new flagship car, they cannot bring an engine producing less than 120 hp/L like the S2000 did in year 2000, in other words, more than 10 years ago!!! Moreover they will want to beat the actual Ferrari 458 Italia engine output at 125 hp/L.

With direct injection and today's technology we can expect this engine to easily produce around 135 to 145 hp/L.

IMVHO 130 hp/L would be a true disappointement ...

 

[N Spec]

You can't expect them to use a SOHC engine designed for everyday cars as the flagship sports car. DOHC 9K rev with ~120hp/liter would be ideal. A V6 with that kind of rev would have better torque characteristics than a 2.0 I4. Although 3.5 or 3.7 is quite large for a V6 and probably a bit harder to super rev. How many production NA V6s have broken 100hp/liter?

I do see 130hp/liter happening from all motor before Honda would take the turbo route though, but both are very unlikely. Honestly, I'd prefer it to be NA. Then aftermarket can come in later with a turbo to add a little 5-7 psi and almost double the hp again

 

[White98LS]

Looking at the press release, the 3.5l v6 only makes 310hp, and the two electric motors make a combined 60 more hp. In other words, not very much.

The electric motor in the transmission makes ~40hp while each wheel motor makes ~28hp for a total of ~96hp from electric. These plus the 310hp V6 add to "370hp+" because the power of the motors and the engine peak at different rpms (ex.: electric motor torque peaks at 0 rpm and declines gradually after that), so like every other hybrid on the market you cannot simply add the numbers together to get a combined output.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

500hp 3.5l turbo with 60hp electric would be pretty sweet.

That seems like a longevity nightmare. The turbo would have issues along with the batteries as time went on, and that would really suck. One of the reasons the NSX is so great is it withstood the test of time.

 

[NSX2398]

The problem with the 120hp/l in the S2000 is that the low end torque sucked. But don't forget that electric motors excel at low end torque so this could be a beautiful partnership.

 

[N Spec]

The problem with the 120hp/l in the S2000 is that the low end torque sucked. But don't forget that electric motors excel at low end torque so this could be a beautiful partnership.

That's true, but you can't expect any low end torque from a 2 liter 4 cylinder that has no turbo. A 3.5 v6 will have sufficient displacement to have a flat torque line like the 3.0 does, except with more torque of course. The issue is each cylinder will have more volume, so super revving is going to be harder.

 

[effer]

There is no doubt that Honda can beat Ferrari.

458 Italia engine specifications:

V8 @ 4 499 cm3

Power: more than 560 hp @ 9 000 rpm

more than 125 hp/L.

Torque: 540 Nm @ 6 000 rpm

Amen.


Honda could bring that kind of engine:

V6 @ 3,5 to 4,0L @ 140 hp/L redlining @ 10 000 rpm ...

 

[N Spec]

There is no doubt that Honda can beat Ferrari.

458 Italia engine specifications:

V8 @ 4 499 cm3

Power: more than 560 hp @ 9 000 rpm

more than 125 hp/L.

Torque: 540 Nm @ 6 000 rpm

Amen.


Honda could bring that kind of engine:

V6 @ 3,5 to 4,0L @ 140 hp/L redlining @ 10 000 rpm ...

I hate to be THAT guy, but your expectations are ridiculous. The new 458 is something of a performance titan. It is not the 1980s or 1990s anymore. Ferrari has stepped their game up considerably. The whole 458 setup is damn near perfect and even the $400K LFA is put to shame considering that they took a decade to develop a 4.8 V10 that produces less power than the lower displaced V8. Also the 458 supposedly gets better gas mileage too.

Extracting 125hp per liter all motor is not as easy as it sounds. Plus, the 458 dynos have shown 450whp, so Ferrari may be over estimating the 125 hp/liter since 21% drivetrain lost seems high for a mid engine car, so the actual output is probably a bit less than 570 hp. Lexus spent over a decade developing a V10 that only gets ~115 hp/liter at the same engine redline and they put down about 20 less hp than the 458.

If Honda is gunning for the 458, then the new NSX better weigh around 2700 lbs if 480 hp is the projected output. The engine should redline at 9000 rpm with a similar 5.xx final drive ratio and short gears in the DCT to achieve the low 3 second 0-60. I am not saying Honda can't do it, but it certainly will not be easy with strict safety regulations and emissions to meet that ~5-6 lbs per hp target if they want to compete with Ferrari.

I hope Honda can extract ~120-130 hp per liter out of a 3.5 V6, but I wouldn'
t expect the higher number to appear. That alone will be sufficient enough in a sub 3000 lb car and then we can let the electric motors supplement the off-the-line and out-of-corner performance.

 

[WingZ]

What's really interesting is that the old 3.7 was rated at 305. The new engine is netting only a five hp increase with the smaller size. It's a 10hp increase since they rated the RL 300hp but the the TL 305hp.

In the 3800lb TL manual the 3.7 got the Car to 60 in 5.2 so a 3200lb car with the new engine plus 175hp and almost 500lbft of tq should easily hit within the 3sec mark with a good DSG. Not to mention that most of the tq will be instant.

The Ferrari does it in 3.3. NSX 2.0 will be right there.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Lightweight is going to be the key to everything in the future. Remember that little Enzo looking concept from Ferrari that hinted at sub 3000lb weights for their cars from now on. I think the 458 and mclaren mp4 have reached the pinnacle of what a ton of power can do on the street so to get more performance they are going to focus on weight reduction. Of course no one is going to give up their amenities now, so maybe the next NSX will be all carbon fiber (very expensive) just like they used aluminum in the first one when it was prohibitively expensive to do so. I see 2500 lb exotics in the future so hopefully Honda will kick it off!

 

[effer]

I hate to be THAT guy, but your expectations are ridiculous.

Sorry to discover that you hate yourself that much ( I hope that one day you will forgive yourself ... ) but the only ridiculous thing is the loser attitude of saying that Honda can't do it.

The power of dreams ... Obviously it was not your quote and/or your thoughts ...

You are clearly not in the same league as Soichiro ... ( I hope that one day you will accept it ... )

Please make a little step forward and believe, and moreover, have the intellectual honesty to say that using the word ''ridiculous'' is nonetheless ... ridiculous, unappropriate and truly ... cheap.

You predict 120 to 130 hp/L and I claim that Honda can do 130 to 140 hp/L.

Wow! What an incredible difference!!!
( Of course, please do not believe a single word of what I am saying, I am only a physicist and mathematician, and I have absolutely no idea of numbers ... )

So, I am ridiculous by a small margin of 7,69% over your maybe(?) absolute truth?

The new 458 is something of a performance titan. It is not the 1980s or 1990s anymore. Ferrari has stepped their game up considerably.

Losers always have tons of excuses ...

Stepped up their game ... Yeah! With ex Honda engineers !!!

Back in the 1980's, Ferrari was extracting 84,375 hp/L with the F105C. That was first class na engine output, especially from a V8 revving at 7700 rpm ...

Remember, Honda came with a new technology/ tour de force : VTEC.

If Honda is gunning for the 458, ...

Honda officially stated that the new NSX will show the same performance as the Ferrari 458 Italia ...

Sorry to burst your bubble but Honda said it ...


Believing that Honda cannot extract more than 120 hp/L more than ten years after the first appearance of the S2000 is somewhat ... candide.

And to add to this, do not forget that the new engine will have direct injection ... ( which wasn't the case with the S2000 engine ... )

I hope Honda can extract ~120-130 hp per liter out of a 3.5 V6, but I wouldn'
t expect the higher number to appear. That alone will be sufficient enough in a sub 3000 lb car and then we can let the electric motors supplement the off-the-line and out-of-corner performance.

Honda IMHO will extract at least these numbers, and future will prove me right ( still IMVVHO since I do not possess the absolute truth nor have the absolute power of declaring anything ridiculous! ).

Do you want to bet on that?

 

[NetViper]

Honda officially stated that the new NSX will show the same performance as the Ferrari 458 Italia ...

Sorry to burst your bubble but Honda said it ...


Believing that Honda cannot extract more than 120 hp/L more than ten years after the first appearance of the S2000 is somewhat ... candide.

When did they say that? I thought they said they were not aiming for the 458.

If they had that performance I would be thrilled.

 

[N Spec]

I am only a physicist and mathematician, and I have absolutely no idea of numbers ...

One would think a physicist and mathematician could control and express his emotions better...

You are taking offense like you are on the Honda development team or even a sales team at that. If you are, then I suppose I can understand your degree of offense. I never even said Honda cannot do it, but instead that it would highly improbable, but possible. 120hp/liter is already a daunting task at 9K RPM. We are talking about 10K redline to achieve levels of 140hp/liter with a 3.5 V6. If anyone could do it, it would be Honda, but what is the true probability of such a thing happening? The vehicle already presumes to be expensive with all of these lightweight materials to keep it lighter. A 10K redline V6 would be awesome! But it would also make things a lot more expensive. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but Honda has shown on several occasions to be conservative on hp output and overall value/pricing.

I am right there with you at hoping that Honda can show up Ferrari again. I know Honda has the capabilities to do so, but let's keep it realistic here with our expectations. It's going to be a lot harder this time around to outdo Ferrari's current monster. The 458's hp/weight ratio is already super low. 145hp/liter without FI is not as easy as pulling up some stats online.

Besides, we haven't even heard any concrete news about the engine. I hope that I am surprised by the high hp output, but I'm not expecting it so I won't be too disappointed. They should focus on delivering a solid car that can compete, but also just as important, it must have drop-dead proportions and looks. The 458 is not the fastest out their, but it is still a performance marvel and one of the best looking Ferrari to-date. I would rather have Honda release a car that looks better than the 458 and I know they can definitely outdo them in the interior department still.

Do you want to bet on that?

If you ended up being right, what do you want, a cookie? You are getting all pumped and bent out of shape over what? Lol, again, unless you are on the development team, I don't see how you would be instrumental or even remotely connected enough to the development to take offense. And if you are, stop posting up here and go out there to prove me wrong :tongue: