Does anyone know how to stop selling scammers?

GBL1 · 21 September 2009

Here's the e-mail communication timeline between myself & this guy. I KNOW this guy is a SCAM. He is trying to STEAL $15K from me. I would love to see him in jail, but attitude I get is "we can't arrest him until after he steals from you and then we'll probably never catch him anyway..." Nice. Ideas?

Hi Ben. I've just tried to call you but I got your answering machine and left a message. Anyway you said you will call me today so I just want to let you know that I am available so don't hesitate to call or email with any questions that you have or if you need guidance trough the transaction steps. I look forward to hear from you and I hope we will manage to seal this deal today so that I can initiate the shipment before the weekend, as I really don't want to pay the storage for 3 more days to the shipping company.

Thx,
Jack

********************************

Subject: RE: Owner 64462175: AutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead 1992 Acura NSX
Jack,

I got the e-mails from eBay. I will call you tomorrow.

George

********************************************
From: [email protected] [mailto

[email protected]]

Subject: Re: Owner 64462175: AutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead 1992 Acura NSX

I've started the transaction with eBay and i already received a copy of the invoice.
Please let me know when you will be able to make the deposit to the eBay account, because at my end it's all setup and I'm ready to start the shipping.
I look forward to hear from you, and please confirm that you received the invoice from eBay.
Jack

*****************************
Subject: RE: Owner 64462175: AutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead 1992 Acura NSX
Jack,
Here is my address:
Ben, XXXX any st. Texas, USA
I need you to call me today about this at XXX-XXX-XXXX

Thanks, Ben
**********************
Subject: Re: Owner 64462175: AutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead 1992 Acura NSX
Hey Ben next i will need your full name and shipping address where you want the car delivered and ebay will guide you the rest of the way .
****************************
Subject: RE: Owner 64462175: AutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead 1992 Acura NSX
Jack,
Consider it sold. I love the car. I can have the financing arranged within days. What do you propose that we do next to complete this deal? Call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX.
Thanks, Ben
*********************************
Subject: Re: Owner 64462175: AutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead 1992 Acura NSX
Hi there Ben

Thanks for contacting me; something came up and I had to leave urgently on
a business trip. I wanted to let you know that the car is still available.
I am selling it for $15,300. The 1992 Acura NSX looks like new; it has never
been scratched or wrecked. The car is in great condition inside, outside and
mechanically. It will come with a clear title, bill of sale signed by me as
well and all the papers (including the original manuals and keys) that you
will need to register it under your name. I want to sell it because I don't
have much use for and I could use some quick cash right now, rather than
waiting for a better offer (selling takes a lot of time too...). So I'm
willing to let it go for $15,300.00 and since I only have one, First come,
First served.

Although I am not home, we can still make the deal through ebay. I have a
purchase protection program with them (Condition Guarantee by Seller
Program), so ebay will guarantee up to $50,000 for any vehicle I sell.
Shipping is already paid, because I recently moved from Dallas TX, to
Glenwood MD and before leaving I have made arrangements to ship the car here
to me in Glenwood. Now that I am selling it there is no point in shipping it
here anymore. The trucking company will not refund me in full but offered to
ship the car anywhere within continental US, so I've left it at their
warehouse and it's ready to ship at anytime.
Also, this purchase protection guarantees that the car is exactly as I
described; basically, once delivered, you'll have 5 days to inspect it at
your home and if you decide not to keep it you will get refunded in no time
and they will charge me with the return costs.

If you agree with these terms, please email me your shipping name and
address so I can start this process through eBay and I will also get back to
you with more details on how the ebay process works. You should know that
it's not necessary to be a registered user with eBay to benefit from their
vehicle purchase protection program so don't worry if you are not a
registered user with ebay. I have more photos with the car hosted on the
internet at the following link:

http://s1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/jackacuraoioioi/

I await your email with the requested details if you are interested in the
car.

Thanks
Regards, Jack Rivas
***************************
----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Sep 7, 2009 1:45 am
Subject: Owner 64462175: AutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead 1992 Acura NSX
***VEHICLE LEAD***

The following lead was generated from AutoTrader.com's web site at

http://www.autotrader.com.

To view the vehicle, click the link below:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=266511415

VEHICLE INFORMATION
Make: Acura
Model: NSX
Year: 1992
Price: 15300
Mileage: 75218
Body Style: Coupe
Color: Red
Cylinders: 6 Cylinder
Transmission: Manual
Doors: Two Door
Stereo: Unavailable

Description: This is a great running and driving car. It has 72,600 miles as of this listing but I do drive it a little. It is #76 in production for the
1992 model year. It is in great condition and garaged most of the time. A lot of people call it a Japanese Ferrari but I can tell you it's NO Ferrari. It doesn’t fuss when it's hot outside, it doesn’t cost 5k to tune it up, It
doesn’t brake down every other time you drive it, It always starts with No
smoke, and everything works with the excuses, but I must admit the pony
does look nice on the fenders.

BUYER INFO
Name: Ben
E-Mail Address:

Comments: I tried to call, but the recording said this is a wrong number for the NSX for sale. Please call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX. I would like to come see the car for purchase as soon as possible. Also call or e-mail me if it is no longer available.

Ben

GBL1 · 21 September 2009

Total BS e-mail from "ebay":

Dear Ben,

You are about to participate in a fast, efficient and secure transaction. eBay Motors Vehicle Purchase Protection Program is the independent third party that will be overseeing the inspection, ownership transfer, and securing and disbursing the funds. Please follow our instructions in order to complete the transaction safely

Item: 1992 Acura NSX

Mileage: 72,600 miles
VIN JH4NA115XNT000076
Warranty No
Title: Clear
Exterior: Red
Overall condition: Excellent

Buyer Name: George LaFleur
Address: 9705 Presthope Dr.
Frisco, TX 75035
United States

Seller Name: Jack Rivas
Address: 85 Kilamey Dr
Dallas, TX 75218
United States

(this bogus address of his does not exist)

Payment Details Shipping Info:

Invoice # : 8852026301230 UIFS#: 6185583

Subtotal: US $ 15,300.00
Shipping: -paid by seller- Shipping Company: Dependable Auto Shippers, Inc
Sales Tax: US $ 0.00 Service: DAS Insured Ground Shipping
Total Due: US $ 15,300.00 Reference # BOL-084143905

(they do not hold cars, do not use sealed containers, this is not one of their reference numbers, and they've never heard of this guy)

Payment instructions

1. Go to your bank office or access your online bank service
2. Payment must be submitted via bank-to-bank wire transfer to our Transaction Officer Bank Account bellow
3. Fax us the receipt at +1 (206) 338-1026 so we may start validating your transfer

Bank account information:
Bank Name:
CHASE Bank

Bank Address:
71 W Chicago Ave - Chicago, IL 60654

Account Number:
839282969

Routing Number:
071000013

Beneficiary:
Vicente Mirente Domene

(he claims that he doesn't know this guy & that is is a randomly chosen employee of eBay set up to receive the escrow funds - what total BS!)

Insurer Company:
Motors Ltd. (NOT a Beneficiary Name)

When should I pay?
All sellers appreciate quick payment and most ship after receiving payment, so it's good to pay as soon as you receive the invoice.
If you make an online payment, you can just login to your bank account and make the payment using wire transfer to the provided bank account in the invoice.
In order to validate your deposit (payment) we need a tracking number or a faxed copy from the wire transfer receipt.
The payment must be made before the transaction expire (see due date in your invoice)

Payment must be submitted via bank-to-bank wire transfer to eBay Motors Representative Bank Account. eBay Motors will secure the payment until the Buyer receives, inspects and accepts the vehicle. Or, if it is the case, eBay will refund the payment to the Buyer

When payment is received, it will be verified and secured into a non-interest bearing trust account. Payment verification process usually takes less than 24 hours. After payment is secured, the Seller is authorized to ship the vehicle. Your funds will not be released to the Seller until you have received and inspected the vehicle you are purchasing.
The Buyer receives the vehicle and has 3 business days to inspect it. If the vehicle is in the condition described, the Buyer should accept the vehicle.
After the inspection period is over, the Buyer must contact eBay Motors Customer Support with the result of the inspection. If the Buyer refuses the vehicle, the refund will be sent to the Buyer after the tracking number for the returned shipment is verified. If the vehicle is accepted, eBay Motors Financial Department submits the payment directly to the Seller within 3 business days.

Next e-mail:

Dear Ben,

We've recently sent you the invoice for Case ID # 8852026301230. Please follow the payment instructions from the invoice.

eBay Vehicle Purchase Protection covers buyers purchasing a vehicle from a verified member of our program.
The eBay Vehicle Purchase Protection program protects your vehicle purchase against fraud and material misrepresentation. This
program is provided by eBay Motors on all eligible transactions completed on eBay Motors and on partner sites. There is no sign-up,
opt-in, or registration necessary. Your vehicle purchase is protected for up to $50,000.00 or the vehicle purchase price, whichever is lower.
Currently, the seller can provide an eBay Vehicle Purchase Protection Coverage up to US $50,000.00. Transactions with this
eBay seller are covered by purchase protection against fraud and description errors. For your safety, this account will be locked , until the vehicle will be on your custody and you will give us your accept to release the funds to the seller. The seller is unable to withdraw any money from it, within this period.

Complete your eBay transaction in 5 easy steps:
1) Buyer and seller agree on the transaction terms and a selling price. Seller contacts eBay with the transaction details;
2) eBay accepts the transaction and offers purchase protection to the buyer (if the transaction is declined, no further action is required from
either the buyer or the seller);
3) The buyer receives the invoice and completes the money transfer to eBay's Vehicle Purchase Protection Program department. After the payment is received by eBay's Vehicle Purchase department and approved, the seller will initiate the delivery.
4) Buyer receives the merchandise and has 3 days to inspect it. If it is complete and as described, the buyer should accept the merchandise.
5) After the inspection period is over ( 3 business days ), the buyer must contact us with the result of the inspection. If the buyer refuses the
merchandise, the refund will be sent to the buyer immediately.
Should you need a refund for this transaction, the insured amount will be taken from the seller`s purchase protection account and sent to you.
The refund is sent to your bank account, or by check or money order. The way you are refunded is at your choice. You have 30 days from the
above verification date to request a refund. Refund requests are processed within 3 days.

***** CONDITIONS TO BE MET BEFORE YOU MAY ASK FOR A REFUND *****

Here are the situations suitable for a refund request:
1) If the item doesn't arrive and/or the seller stops communications after the payment was received;
2) If the merchandise you receive has different specifications than the ones you agreed on;
3) If your merchandise arrives in a much longer period than the one you agreed on (more than 15 days from the payment clearance day);
For cases 2) and 3) you have to send back the merchandise to the seller prior to ask for your refund.
Once we`l receive the payment confirmation, we will instruct the seller to start the shipping process. We will secure the funds for you until you`l receive the vehicle and we will release the funds only with your approval. If the vehicle will not be as described, you will have to send it back on the seller's expense and we will give you a full refund.

Please check your bulk/junk folder too for the invoice.

Thank you for using our services!

eBay Motors Financial Department Vehicle Purchase Protection © 1995-2009 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. eBay and the eBay logo are among the registered trademarks of eBay Inc. Kelley Blue Book® and Blue Book® are registered trademarks of Kelley Blue Book Co., Inc. Other trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. Some automotive images © eVox Productions LLC, all rights reserved..

GBL1 · 21 September 2009

I have checked & ebay's buyer protection does not work like this & they do not hold funds in this manner for buyers & sellers.

I would just love to see this guy in jail simply for trying to steal from people.

Ideas?

RSO 34 · 21 September 2009

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104987

White92 · 21 September 2009

The first thing I noticed is the selling price. There aren't any nice NSX's selling for $15,300. The second thing I would have done is googled the VIN. You'll notice it was for sale here on Prime last year for $32,500. It would not have gone down in value by more than half in one year.

The best way to stop these sellers? Don't waste your time with them. It was an obvious scam to begin with. You should have never communicated with the guy in the first place.

GBL1 · 21 September 2009

Yeah, I was going to have a friend with a dealer license run the VIN to see whose it really is; didn't know I could just "Google" it. Thanks.

I know I should not have played ball with this guy, but I'm just PO'd that he's trying this stuff...wish I could shut him down, but I really do have better things to worry about, so I guess the best thing is to just let others be aware...

I'll call & verbally blow him up.

Tomathy · 21 September 2009

life is too short to try and save the public on this .. if you have such concern forward to your local law enforcement and "maybe" they will get to it in a year or so... or join a police department

R13 · 21 September 2009

Tell him you will pay him 20k for the car as long as he can send a cashier's check to the bank of nigeria for twice that amount in order for your wealthy spouse to be allowed to return to the US to claim their Columbian lottery winnings.

The price is in the realm of feasibility for an early-year NSX (as much as some of you may not want to believe it right now), although HIGHLY unlikely for a clean car with that mileage.

The biggest tip off to me in that exchange would be the "I am not home, but we can complete the transaction through ebay". I encountered the same MO three times on Craigslist and it was always the same. "I was just transferred with my Job to (insert place inconveniently distant from the vehicle's garaging location". It usually breaks down when you ask if a friend you conveniently have in whatever town could inspect the car, or go look through a window at it, etc. Then they'll tell you they will pay to ship you the car after you put down a deposit, you can inspect the car and if it doesn not meet expectations, just ship it back.....etc. so-on and so-forth.

It's frustrating, but short of flying there and punching them in the face for being a dick...there is not much recourse.

GBL1 · 21 September 2009

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></o

>

rbilder · 21 September 2009

You can try http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx Internet Crime Complaint Center.

In 2005 I reported at least 4 separate cases of Internet fraud on NSX's. I gave them all the documentation I had... all four were similar, but they used different ads... Some would post on eBay for a really low price, get contact information and pull the bid and then try to deal outside of eBay.

eBay does protect the purchase, but you would have to purchase it off eBay and not outside... like having the person pull it and then do the deal outside eBay.

Others used Auto Trader or Cars dot com. Neither advertising site knew they were fraud & once they knew they pulled the ad's.

All my cases involved scammers, supposedly over seas... all wanted some amount of money wired to them as a deposit.

One scammer was so elaborate, they designed a shipping page you could go to... but they didn't go far enough, as most of the links on the home page went nowhere.

I jacked with them for a while, but eventually got bored with exposing their scams.

As far as I know nothing ever came of my reports. I called my local police, but since it was International Internet fraud they told me I had to report it to the federal Internet fraud people.

Thankfully, I eventually purchase a very nice 91 NSX off eBay, but it was legit and I never fell for the scammers. I was totally shocked at how many I came across in my search for an NSX. All had prices that were below 1/2 of what the market price was for the cars.

They get a person all excited about their dream car at a dream price and people sometimes tend to get caught up in the excitment and miss the red flags they are getting scammed.

tbromley · 22 September 2009

Guys, I've seen similar bs on ebay and reported it to ebay. They've taken the false ads off. There is something you can do short of going over and beating the crap out of him but maybe not as much fun! :biggrin:

But I bet Autotrader has a frued policy too. Check with them; they'll talk to you. You could get this guy dumped and at least have the ad pulled so some other unsuspecting person doesn't get beat out of their cash.

Have you contacted Autotrader about this? Scammers suck - wish we could catch this guy and beat him publicly with a 2x4. That might straighten him out or NOT.... for everyone you get there is another waiting but then that's life in the fast lane. Call Autotrader and see if they won't remove the ad. Send the ad to ebay...they have a scammer email address.

Good luck!

davidf · 22 September 2009

Where is the car located? Call his bluff. Tell him you will fly down asap to personally examine the car. Suddenly the story will change from his end. String him along. You know he's a theif, have a little fun with him.:wink:

GBL1 · 22 September 2009

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ther; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> I decided that the best revenge is a dose of his own medicine.

Since he provided me with his bank routing and account number (& his, presumable, real name - the account does check out with Chase as a legitimate account) I will simply input that personal banking information into every spam-scam e-mail I get from all the Nigerian Barristers that are needing personal banking information in order to send my the $18,000,000.00 that was left to me by a long lost deceased relative.
We’ll see how he likes having his bank account cleaned out by a rip-off artist…
<o

> </o

>
PS: Since I posted his bank info above, everyone else feel free to do the same…

GBL1 · 22 September 2009

For those that missed it...

Bank account information:
Bank Name:
CHASE Bank

Bank Address:
71 W Chicago Ave - Chicago, IL 60654

Account Number:
839282969

Routing Number:
071000013

Beneficiary:
Vicente Mirente Domene
(this is the correct name for this account (I checked and Vicente is the Spanish spelling of Vincent)

DocL · 22 September 2009

What if this guy gave you someone elses name and bank info and now you've posted a legit account.

R13 · 22 September 2009

That is a real routing number, but it is not for a Chicago bank, it is a Chase bank in Belleville, MI.

GBL1 · 22 September 2009

I can assure you it is a legit account that does match up to that name...an account number and name that the scam seller sent to me as the account that he wants the money deposited into...most likely either his real name (he goes by Jack Riva) or it is his accomplice.

Either way, the account holder, Vicente, is in on the scam to steal money from some unsuspecting NSX buyer, and he'll deserve what he gets if some nigerian scammer cleans his clock....

YellowHaze · 22 September 2009

Better to leave revenge for Clint Eastwood characters and the like. Life is beautiful until you start down the wrong path (revenge, getting mad, etc.). Like Tomathy said, you can't save the public on every scammer in the land. Make a report to Ebay, chalk this up to experience, and be glad you were smart enought to not be taken.

EuroBoutique · 29 September 2009

Two sides to every arguement from my point of view.

Scammers suck and I wish they can all be arrested but they must know they can get away with it if they are willing to give out their REAL bank account numbers. I always thought doing leaves a paper trail that any half decent cop can track down pretty easy. Example: Scammer can create any story but in the end, follow the money trail and it leads to a person's bank account so seems like an easy arrest no????

Other side of the arguement is that if you are stupid enough to fall for these clear cut scams then you must be an idiot yourself.

SIMPLE RULE: If deal is too good to be true then it is :biggrin:

Shinebox · 30 September 2009

Yo, I very rarely interject here but I have been in the market for an X here for about a year and I absolutely recognize this skammin pieice of shizz. His so-called e-bay arrangement reads like it was written by borat.Please.....

tosugrad · 4 October 2009

So, to the OP, at what point did you think this was a scam? It seems like you STILL may think its possible with all the calling around to local real companies.

99% of the people on this board could have told you from the price alone this was a scam.

Don't waste your time on this guy. You won't have any luck "shutting him down" because there are LOTS of stupid people out there.

caeavesrsx-s · 30 October 2009

Still a funny idea of giving the info the scam emails. I bet there is no money in the account though.

ChitownNSX · 30 October 2009

yea. but over draft fees suck and so do returned check fees!

xxjohnny830xx · 21 December 2010

Thanks to a fellow member, he advised me about this scam that is going on. The seller is using my VIN #. I am currently selling my car on Prime only. I never ever had it on eBay or anything. I live in NY and have title in hand. Can anyone advise on who I can file a complaint with? Please let me know. Thanks

UberNSX · 3 January 2011

YellowHaze said:
Better to leave revenge for Clint Eastwood characters and the like. Life is beautiful until you start down the wrong path (revenge, getting mad, etc.).

I dunno, I think it depends on how funny your revenge is. :biggrin:

Does anyone know how to stop selling scammers?

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