Do you think this is unethical?

[WeakestLink]

I saw a 2005 911 on ebay with NO RESERVE that I was interested in buying. Here are the emails between me and the seller (Foreign Cars Italia).
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Me: What is the name of the interior color? What was the original MSRP? What options does the car have? Thanks.

FCI: The interior color is stone grey. I don't currently have the MSRP but I can find that out for you. What is your telephone number so I can go over everything with you?

FCI: Good morning! The auction on this item 4561785426 (2005 Porsche 911) is scheduled to end on Sunday. However, if my car has not received the exact bid that I am looking for by 5:00 pm eastern time, I will remove it from the auction. If you are interested in the car, you will need to contact me today. Today is the last day of the auction. If you have any questions, please call me at the number below

Me: So even though you listed it as a NO RESERVE auction, you plan to cancel the auction if it doesn't hit your secret reserve? Interesting.

FCI: Yes, I am trying to sell it for $68,500, or a bit lower. But I can't exactly lose money and sell it for 61,100 where it is now. If you would like to make me an offer, maybe we can do business.

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Basically, Foreign Cars Italia run phony NO RESERVE auctions and then cancels them if they don't meet their secret reserve. It is a shady way of getting sales leads. I don't have an issue with dealers using ebay to get leads. But running no reserve auctions with no intention of letting the auctions run to the end is unethical in my opinion. I was about to drive 12 hours roundtrip to look at the car in person before the end of the auction. I'm glad I didn't; I would have been really pissed had I invested that much of my time into the bogus auction.

Funny thing is although I have never purchased from FCI, I always thought they were a legitimate straightforward dealer. I guess the secret reserve auctions explain why they frequently have auctions yet have only 19 feedbacks in 3 years.

Does anyone know if ebay will do anything about sellers like this? This type of behavior will cause others (including me) to have second thoughts about wasting time on no reserve auctions. This eventually leads to lower bids and hurts everyone on ebay....buyers and sellers.

I'm done venting.

 

[Briank]

It's against EBay’s rules on soliciting off site sales and just plain annoying. Report them to Ebay :wink:

 

[Ncturnal]

With the way everything is worded, it's in a grey area. Cancelling the listing could be considered a circumvention of fees. Cancelling a listing and selling to someone who became aware of the deal via eBay is definitely prohibited, but with the way it is currently worded, he can't be nailed for that. I'd bait and ask if he the deal would be conducted outside of eBay should you chose to buy it. I'd also report him stating that he would cancel the auction if it didn't meet a certain price. While they do allow auctions to be cancelled, they will step in when that function is being abused.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html

 

[4AU4LIFE]

ebay is a very good tool to have for the most part IMO. However, it seems more and more people are learning how to manipulate it. :frown:

 

[mikec]

As an ebay seller with an excellent record, yes, i consider it unethical. I would not do business with that person.

 

[WeakestLink]

I reported to ebay. Not sure if there is anything they can do.

Sad since the dealer is a new Ferrari, Maserati and Porsche dealership.

 

[liftshard]

I reported to ebay. Not sure if there is anything they can do.

Sad since the dealer is a new Ferrari, Maserati and Porsche dealership.

I bought an NSX from these guys. There was nothing like that on our sale. For the one I bought, they had a legitimate reserve price and I made them an offer outside eBay and we did a Buy It Now within eBay at that price. I flew down, was picked up, and drove off w/ the car.

That said, doing "no reserve" auctions in order to just generate interest is bullsh!t. FCI's showroom is chock FULL of big-dollar Ferraris and Astons. I have no clue why they would need to resort to this type of crap.

 

[NSXFreak00]

I think a lot of people do that.

When I purchased my car, the highest bid did not meet the reserve on ebay, because the seller put the reserve so high that it wouldn't hit it.

When I called and offered $2k over the highest bid, he said, "ya, we just market it on ebay to get people interested in the car-we have higher bids that what you are offering, sorry"


anyways, called back one month later, car still wasn't sold, and he made a deal with me

 

[liftshard]

I think a lot of people do that.

When I purchased my car, the highest bid did not meet the reserve on ebay, because the seller put the reserve so high that it wouldn't hit it.

When I called and offered $2k over the highest bid, he said, "ya, we just market it on ebay to get people interested in the car-we have higher bids that what you are offering, sorry"


anyways, called back one month later, car still wasn't sold, and he made a deal with me

I got the same crap from another seller on another NSX. I said, "look, this car will sell, but not for the price you're asking." And, THEN, he comes back with some counteroffers.

 

[steveny]

Me: So even though you listed it as a NO RESERVE auction, you plan to cancel the auction if it doesn't hit your secret reserve? Interesting..

The same way about 99% of the "no reserve" auctions on ebay operate and end. I always like the line " I have the item for sale locally and reserve the right to end the auction early." Some how all these people manage to "sell the car locally" just before the end of the auction.
Interestingly enough if you check almost any ebay vehicle auction there will always be bids just about 10-30% below what the vehicle is worth. The vehicles seem to get bid up pretty fast to that range and then the bidding stops. If the car is priced what it is worth and no reserve then there will be no bids at all. I always laugh at those auctions too. It is like the seller is saying I will sell this vehicle for what it is worth or more than what's it is worth. :biggrin:
Ebay will not put an end to any of their problems of fraud until they have competition and I think that may never happen.

 

[WeakestLink]

I don't have an issue with auctions with really high reserves. At least you know there is a reserve and a good chance it won't sell.

I also have no issue with being able to cancel the auction early if it is sold locally. As long as it has actually sold to someone.

I do have an issue with a no reserve auction when the seller has no intention to sell at the highest price.

Generally speaking, I think ebay auctions only meet true market value when there is no reserve...or when the reserve is actually met. Therefore, I usually only search for no reserve auctions. (I also only sell with no reserve auctions) And I'm usually willing to invest some time for due diligence on a big ticket no reserve auction.

The thing that baffles me is that they do not know what the auction would actually end at. By cancelling the auction 20 hours before the scheduled end, you have no idea what the auction would have reached. A lot of people (myself included) wait until the last few minutes to put their bids in. I have experienced the same behavior on my own auctions. I've seen bid prices quadruple in the last 60 seconds of an auction.

I think ebay should include a rating system for number of auctions withdrawn, or number of auctions that did not hit reserve. Ebay is successful b/c it balances the power between and retailer and a buyer. More information only furthers that goal.