After seeing the Stark car and reading all the opinions of what it may look like.. do you think the new NSX successor will be as timeless in design as the original?
Do you think the new NSX will be as Timeless as the original?
- Thread starter arista5
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No. It will be a great car, no doubt, but it will not be the same. The original NSX was a culmination of a national spirit that cannot be repeated. It was Japan's statement to the world that, after rubuilding from the ashes of WWII, they were an economic force to be reckoned with. It was also a consumer distillation of the incredible success Honda was finding in Formula 1. In many ways, the NSX is a national icon of Japan and reflects the heady sentiments of those times- a swagger and confidence wrapped up in traditional Japanese modesty..with a wink. 
Such sentiments no longer exist. Japan is slowly exiting from 20 years of persistent stagnation. Honda is not racing in Formula 1, and exited in 2008 as a mediocre team resigned to perpetual defeat and bad cars. Honda also is getting slammed in the press for poor quality, watered down products and boring styling. This is not the environment that produces greatness.
Indeed, if you look at how these two NSX cars were developed, it is clear. The original was a slow, thoughful process that took years, starting in the mid 1980's and constantly refined, tested and refined again. The direction was "build the best sports car in the world" and was backed up with a blank check. Honda turned its engineers loose and they came up with our beloved NSX.
Fast forward to today. This NSX is the result of the company hitting the panic button. It was hastily thrown together over the past 18 months after the HSV was scrapped. The accountants and marketers are the ones running the program now, not the engineers. Instead of making the statement "we are the best in the world" like the original, this car appears to be intended to state "we are still relevant." I imagine the direction was something like the accountants/marketers telling the engineers "um, so we need a halo car now...can you get us one of those in 18 months and at X budget? Thanks so much." Totally different mentality. Almost like going to Target and pulling one off the shelf.
Look, I am elated that Honda is going to do a super sports car again. I think they should. And, I am very happy they will apparently be sticking to the "purist" mid-engine platform. I hope the car looks great and initiates a turnaround in the company. I just don't think it will have the same effect as the original. That's why my 91 is staying right where it belongs- in my garage.
Such sentiments no longer exist. Japan is slowly exiting from 20 years of persistent stagnation. Honda is not racing in Formula 1, and exited in 2008 as a mediocre team resigned to perpetual defeat and bad cars. Honda also is getting slammed in the press for poor quality, watered down products and boring styling. This is not the environment that produces greatness.
Indeed, if you look at how these two NSX cars were developed, it is clear. The original was a slow, thoughful process that took years, starting in the mid 1980's and constantly refined, tested and refined again. The direction was "build the best sports car in the world" and was backed up with a blank check. Honda turned its engineers loose and they came up with our beloved NSX.
Fast forward to today. This NSX is the result of the company hitting the panic button. It was hastily thrown together over the past 18 months after the HSV was scrapped. The accountants and marketers are the ones running the program now, not the engineers. Instead of making the statement "we are the best in the world" like the original, this car appears to be intended to state "we are still relevant." I imagine the direction was something like the accountants/marketers telling the engineers "um, so we need a halo car now...can you get us one of those in 18 months and at X budget? Thanks so much." Totally different mentality. Almost like going to Target and pulling one off the shelf.
Look, I am elated that Honda is going to do a super sports car again. I think they should. And, I am very happy they will apparently be sticking to the "purist" mid-engine platform. I hope the car looks great and initiates a turnaround in the company. I just don't think it will have the same effect as the original. That's why my 91 is staying right where it belongs- in my garage.
No. It will be a great car, no doubt, but it will not be the same. The original NSX was a culmination of a national spirit that cannot be repeated. It was Japan's statement to the world that, after rubuilding from the ashes of WWII, they were an economic force to be reckoned with. It was also a consumer distillation of the incredible success Honda was finding in Formula 1. In many ways, the NSX is a national icon of Japan and reflects the heady sentiments of those times- a swagger and confidence wrapped up in traditional Japanese modesty..with a wink.
Such sentiments no longer exist. Japan is slowly exiting from 20 years of persistent stagnation. Honda is not racing in Formula 1, and exited in 2008 as a mediocre team resigned to perpetual defeat and bad cars. Honda also is getting slammed in the press for poor quality, watered down products and boring styling. This is not the environment that produces greatness.
Indeed, if you look at how these two NSX cars were developed, it is clear. The original was a slow, thoughful process that took years, starting in the mid 1980's and constantly refined, tested and refined again. The direction was "build the best sports car in the world" and was backed up with a blank check. Honda turned its engineers loose and they came up with our beloved NSX.
Fast forward to today. This NSX is the result of the company hitting the panic button. It was hastily thrown together over the past 18 months after the HSV was scrapped. The accountants and marketers are the ones running the program now, not the engineers. Instead of making the statement "we are the best in the world" like the original, this car appears to be intended to state "we are still relevant." I imagine the direction was something like the accountants/marketers telling the engineers "um, so we need a halo car now...can you get us one of those in 18 months and at X budget? Thanks so much." Totally different mentality. Almost like going to Target and pulling one off the shelf.
Look, I am elated that Honda is going to do a super sports car again. I think they should. And, I am very happy they will apparently be sticking to the "purist" mid-engine platform. I hope the car looks great and initiates a turnaround in the company. I just don't think it will have the same effect as the original. That's why my 91 is staying right where it belongs- in my garage.
Well said!
Agree with you 100%.
I agree with Honcho, he is keeping it realistic. However, a revolution like the one that occurred when the NSX first debuted is not needed. More refinement of the original formula is all that is needed.
It is still probably 2 years away from an actual production model. Plenty of time to get the design and engineering down, and they will need every bit of it.
It is still probably 2 years away from an actual production model. Plenty of time to get the design and engineering down, and they will need every bit of it.
Like sex, the first time is always the most timeless and most memorable, but not always the best. :biggrin:
The same sentiment was shared by the Lamborghini guys as the Aventador was being developed. It would never be in the true spirit of the brand, would never be as exciting to drive, could never compare to the looks of past flagship models, etc. Then it came out and all of that changed.
I'm not so sure that it takes 5-10 years to develop a proper super car these days. What makes our NSXs so amazing to drive isn't earth shattering anymore. At $30,000 the EVO captures a lot of the same fun-to-drive that my NSX does. If it's going to cost upwards of $100,000 I'd give the boys at Honda a chance before we write off the new car. I can't afford it regardless so I'll probably be in another 20 year waiting pattern if it's as good as I hope it is
I'm not so sure that it takes 5-10 years to develop a proper super car these days. What makes our NSXs so amazing to drive isn't earth shattering anymore. At $30,000 the EVO captures a lot of the same fun-to-drive that my NSX does. If it's going to cost upwards of $100,000 I'd give the boys at Honda a chance before we write off the new car. I can't afford it regardless so I'll probably be in another 20 year waiting pattern if it's as good as I hope it is
Honcho, that was incredibly well said. I believe that the length of time required for the first NSX was longer due to Honda having to learn how to do things such as manufacturing the aluminum chassis, etc and construct the facilities to actually build the car. Fast forward to today, Honda has a vast knowledgebase and will no doubt pull from that pool to complete the task at hand. I must admit, though, the timeframe does seem a bit abbreviated which does concern me a bit. But if there is a company that can pull it off, I believe that Honda will actually be able to do it. I for one am absolutely excited to see what will be presented in Detroit.
I will believe it when I see it.
Showing us a model of it at Detroit? Here we go again...
Showing us a model of it at Detroit? Here we go again...
Thats what Im thinking also. This has been rumored so many times I never get my hopes up anymore. Even if it makes it to the show the car might just be a concept and we will never see it go into production. Yeah Yeah it was told to dealers its going to happen but acura can always back out. Will the car have timeless styling? Not like our cars EVER! Its going to be know as a copy of the R8 but it will be cheaper and slower.
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So the evolution of the original NSX is a copy of the R8?
From that which has been shown, it already looks better than the R8. The Audi is not a that good looking.
BTW, Honcho made a great statement, but the OP asked about design, not engineering. So looks or human taste, not measurable technology and performance. The final design is yet to be seen, but if it has the proportions of the original NSX, but with clean and futuristic cues, then it could be another fine example of timeless beauty for the next two decades or so.
The fact that this car is being designed in a couple of years vs near a full decade doesn't surprise me. Back in the 80s computers were massive slow and engineers were still hand drawing/calculating parts/dimensions out. Fast forward to 2011.. almost 2012 and now you have small computers that have programs that can handle finite element calculations with ease in a couple of minutes and can change one dimension with a click of a button. It would be ludacris to think Honda can't design a proper sports car in a couple of years given the state of our technology. I'll wait until I see the actual design before I make judgement on the car and whether it will be a timeless design.
Honcho although you seem to be right about Honda's past efforts with the original NSX, you are looking at it with a pessimistic view for their latest effort. Couldn't you flip it around and say this next effort could be related to Honda being in a slump for about a decade now and their pride/reputation is at stake. They would like to revive the brands image and make a statement that they do build great cars. This next NSX may not represent "Japans" statement to the world but "Honda's" statement to the world saying, we are still one of the best car makers in the world.
Honcho although you seem to be right about Honda's past efforts with the original NSX, you are looking at it with a pessimistic view for their latest effort. Couldn't you flip it around and say this next effort could be related to Honda being in a slump for about a decade now and their pride/reputation is at stake. They would like to revive the brands image and make a statement that they do build great cars. This next NSX may not represent "Japans" statement to the world but "Honda's" statement to the world saying, we are still one of the best car makers in the world.
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Anyone in the automotive industry? How long does it take to a car from concept to production if you're coming up with an entirely new platform vs borrowing liberally from existing lines? Keep in mind that it's likely that pretty much EVERY major component will be a uniquely designed and pushing the engineering envelope in this new NSX.
My guess is that advances in computers or not, there is still a good 5-6 years worth of work, particularly if you're doing innovative new work. Heck, it takes us 4-5 years from concept to production of a new CPU architecture, and that's a piece of silicon with no mechanical parts!
BTW, Honda used Cray supercomputers for their computer modeling and analysis on the original NSX. It may be slow relative to modern supercomputers, but it's not like they were using 286's...
My guess is that advances in computers or not, there is still a good 5-6 years worth of work, particularly if you're doing innovative new work. Heck, it takes us 4-5 years from concept to production of a new CPU architecture, and that's a piece of silicon with no mechanical parts!
BTW, Honda used Cray supercomputers for their computer modeling and analysis on the original NSX. It may be slow relative to modern supercomputers, but it's not like they were using 286's...
Honcho, I disagree. The new NSX also received many years of development. Because I believe we might see most of the outgoing NSX as the underpinnings of the future NSX. Right now there is almost every indication that they plan to use a modified version of the defunct frame and suspension in order to have a baseline from where to start. And the fact that the Stark car is simply a new body on an old NSX is proof enough for me.
They will add airbags and and new safety gear and some batteries and a couple of motors. Newer, lighter engine. Maybe even replace the tape deck; who knows!? But for a midengine sports car, what other data point do they have to start with???
Tapaderp
They will add airbags and and new safety gear and some batteries and a couple of motors. Newer, lighter engine. Maybe even replace the tape deck; who knows!? But for a midengine sports car, what other data point do they have to start with???
Tapaderp
Just a note (cause computer power is interesting), the Cray 2 was the fastest supercomputer in the 80s. It performed at 2 gigaflops.
A simple desktop i7 2600 performs at around 80gigaflops. With overclocking, it can get to 120+gigaflops.
That Cray 2 is probably less powerful than my current phone. I now need to look that up...
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Yeah, Honda bought a Cray XMP in 1987 and then a YMP in 1990. I don't know the configuration that Honda purchased, but I believe a fully outfitted YMP was around 2.5GFlops.
The iPad2 in comparison is about 1.5GFlops. A modern day high end GPU can actually sustain over 1 Teraflop (1000 GFlops)! Modern day supercomputers can now sustain over 1 petaflop (1,000,000 GigaFlops) with peaks over 10PFlops!
I think the difference is that what took a dedicated supercomputer and many years of compute time to calculate can now be done on engineers workstations. What was once considered extreme engineering on Honda's part is now standard procedure for analyzing frame rigidity, etc.
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no......
IIRC Ford did the GT in ~3 years, and that was with a dearth of hands on in that type of car-mid/rear, aluminum, pushrod suspension, etc, etc.
The fact that Honda has "built" this car three times, two as mid engine and one as front (not counting the S2000 prototypes) the integration of SHAWD and electric motors is the only "difficult" part to do.
Just checked Kayak:frown:
US Air round trip $383
Hotel $100
Industry ticket $95
There goes January's mortgage payment. So I will just have to watch the blogs online and hope it ends up better than the Cupertino unveiling a little while back. A LOT BETTER
The fact that Honda has "built" this car three times, two as mid engine and one as front (not counting the S2000 prototypes) the integration of SHAWD and electric motors is the only "difficult" part to do.
Just checked Kayak:frown:
US Air round trip $383
Hotel $100
Industry ticket $95
There goes January's mortgage payment. So I will just have to watch the blogs online and hope it ends up better than the Cupertino unveiling a little while back. A LOT BETTER
Yes, and I think I will own it. Just like I will own a GTR, an R8, or the 430, 458 or a Gallardo. They are all a little bloated and stuff but their performance talks the talk, not their looks. These car will be pretty affordable in not too distant future.
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