DAL Grand-Am Mont Tremblant

Joined
20 February 2002
Messages
604
Location
Hoschton, GA, USA
What a track… set in a beautiful ski resort mountain village in French speaking north east Canada. Mont Tremblant is a technical and very fast 2.65 mile road course with 15 turns and steep grade changes. We came here optimistic and energized! Over the first three races in 2004 we have been fine tuning the performance of our cars, and perfecting our skills as a team. All of the previous races have been Rovals (Converted oval tracks into road courses), this race was on a dedicated road course and that’s what the NSX is suited for.

Thursdays practice went as expected, both cars and drivers made consistent progression on this new track. I mentioned that Mont Tremblant was a fast track… 5 of the 15 turns reach speeds over 100 MPH, many tracks have 1 or 2 high speed turns but this course featured a third, in a range that would be impossible to have adequate runoff for protecting the car and driver. She is also known to have an appetite for eating cars. During the first day we witnessed many incidents including a roll over and a few total losses (Vehicle not driver :) One of those loses was a sweet looking new GT Ferrari.

Fridays practice almost included us in the statistics. One of our drivers dropped a wheel in turn 1, a super fast off camber high speed turn. The car slid down the hill hundreds of feet in the slippery grass, just missing the gravel trap by inches as if the track didn’t allow mercy. The car hit the tire barrier straight on, fortunately the damage was repairable with the creativity of our crew… and a neighbor teams hydraulic push press. She gave us a warning that reminded us every time we got a high speed glimpse of the long signature in the grass.

Even after our better then average amount of practice and finally racing a dedicated road course, our lap times were not competitive with the upper cars in our class. Both of our team drivers had very similar times and have proven driving ability. These results were discouraging, so we discussed a plan to see if the series would allow us to have a G-A veteran professional driver test our car in the final practice before qualifying on Saturday. This plan is an attempt to prove our ability and emphasize the ability of our car. This could accelerate our request for part concessions to make our entry more even with the rest of the series. Every car except the NSX has major concessions to make them competitive… and beyond! In real world production form the NSX would share the honor of winning the fastest lap times with only one other car competing in our series. Our choice of drivers was a paid Pro driving for the GT NSX of Honda American Racing Team, Pete Halsmer was delighted to help our efforts and even “enthusiastic to contribute with our young energetic team”. His times were better, but not far off our eventual best. We can equate his better time to having much more experience on this track and maybe he’s a little better driver :)… he does have more experience there too. Pete added that the car was well balanced and we had a good handle on it’s tuning. His best time would have only qualified him in 21st place, this should help our cause with the series officials.

Qualifying went well we dropped even more time with the fresh tires and mental advantage of knowing someone else had gone faster in the same car.

The race- After 10 laps we developed a fatal overheating problem, were only guessing was caused by a leaking head gasket. Our cooling water was getting consumed by the engine until we didn’t have enough to cool the engine. We packed up and headed home… not discouraged, and already working towards Watkins Glen. “What doesn’t kill you will make you stronger”

32 cars entered in our class at Mont Tremblant and only 18 crossed the finish… she was full-

DAL Motorsports would like to thank our major sponsors: Goodson Acura, Valvoline, American Honda, and Exedy Clutches- Without them we would not be able to compete.
 
Thanks for the update. Do you know when the race is on SPEED channel.

good luck
 
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I loved your post,keep them coming.Is the cars weekness only hp/wght or is there more mechanical grip to be had,or both.Good luck,and I know it is nice to be in competition (and we are proud of you all campaining an nsx )but I also can tell that you guys want and expect to have top ten finishes,or wins!And that is the only attitude to have when really racing.
 
Thanks DocJohn-

DAL chose to compete in this series because it represents a variety of showroom stock cars. Each of us owns an NSX, and anyone who frequents DE’s knows the remarkable capabilities of this car. Three of us instruct regularly and can draw on our experience to evaluate the competitiveness of the NSX vs. other cars in the Cup series. The 350Z, M3, A4, Mustang, Firebird, or the Cadillac wouldn’t stand a chance in stock form. On a technical track, I have witnessed the NSX (In the right hands) run times comparable to Z06’s, and 996 awd turbo cars… and these cars are in a faster class then ours. What the series tries to do is even out the cars, short of the Porsche none of these cars can handle or brake like the NSX, so they are given concessions to compete. For example; Big brake kits, ground affects, rear wings, cams, headers… the Cadillac has a full carbon body kit to bring the weight down. Years ago the NSX was the bench mark in this class, but through OE evolution and series concessions the other cars are now equal in handling and some make near double the horsepower. In the last race at the carousel before the longest straight, we could exit strong enough to run into the car ahead and still loose 10 plus car lengths before the next turn. Don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining, just stating facts. This too is part of racing. We have developed the car quite well within the current rules, and have surpassed track records for previous NSX’s (even with newer weight penalties). Were now working with the series to revisit the rules and will hopefully be competitive again. In the meantime we will just do our best and will welcome improvements in the future NSX/HSC… especially HP.
 
Rob, What would be the top 3 or 4 wish list items if you were to be able to get the concessions you want?
 
Gene,
The number one item by a large margin is CAMS. Horsepower alone wouldn’t make us dominant, but they would give us a fighting chance. Cams would also be consistent with concessions allowed other cars like the 350Z (they already make more HP in stock form). With this we could likely be competitive, but would have to run the entire race les conservative as many of the other entry’s. That would increase our odds of making mistakes or having a mechanical failure, but would make the idea of winning possible.

My next two requests arguably give more consistency then improved performance-

A VENTED HOOD for engine cooling. We are at the maximum allowed compression, and always in the upper RPM range, so cooling has been an issue. (Even with a larger radiator, were going to go even bigger soon)

AFTERMARKET BRAKES. For a more consistent threshold. The NSX brakes are remarkably good considering that they are single sided piston, but they are hardly as good as our competition that all have aftermarket 4-6 piston calipers. The series also specifies tires, and the aspect ratios mess with our ABS.

From here I would like Aero, a REAR WING, SPLITTER, and functional SIDE SKIRTS. This would make us equal to dominant depending what was allowed.

None of the items (except maybe the vented hood) are any different then what other teams are allowed. We have been working with the officials, and have presented very data rich documentation with undisputable facts including comparisons with power to weight ratios. The presentation has no logical debate, so barring any unfair reasoning we should get some resolve in our discussions in New York. From there we will work as fast as we can to implement any of the concessions. I have to add that my biggest fear is potential political differences between us and a team like Cadillac; that even before they entered the first race, were allowed prototype carbon fiber body panels that are a different shape then OE. They’re also the only team in the series that is allowed to run an 18” rim and tire with a lower/better profile. I presume this was to clear their brakes or something, but too bad… get different brakes. (We didn’t get different tires because it messed with our ABS) Our class runs a 17” tire that’s made unique for this series, it has “GAC” molded into the side. They are a harder compound then Hoosier normally makes, developed for endurance and not needing a heat cycle. Great technology, especially for weekend DE’s, but in a race I would take the better gripping fast wearing tires any day! We change tires every stop anyway. Unfortunately Acura doesn’t campaign the current NSX, so we don’t have the usual clout seen with the other brands in the series. Acura doesn’t even have a contingency in our class… only in the touring class.
 
RacerX-21 said:
It was on last Sunday :(

:o - Man i am slipping. SPEED usually shows the Grand Am race the next week or 2 weeks later. Oh well, must set TIVO for June 27th wknd.
 
RacerX-21 said:

The number one item by a large margin is CAMS. ...
Cams, wing, and brakes I would have figured (given enough time for my simple mind). Would not have guessed hood because I have little experience pushing it to the limit like you do. I am considering one for my car, but only becasue of the added heat from FI, and that the aftercooler reservoire is up front. Also assumed that any air being directed through it means less going uder the car, which is a plus. Side skirts I would have never thought of. Heck, I didn't know that there were any that were anything beyond boy-racer placebo effect for the NSX.

Mid-Ohio in August, ey? I'd love to come over to see you guys run. :cool:
 
Not all vented hoods are created equal, the RTR hood coupled with a splitter/under-trey is a not so well known way of hiding an enormous amount of down force. With a purpose built radiator ($$$$), this combo is a prototype front end hidden behind our nose (No pun intended). It’s rumored to give as much as 900lbs of down force in the wind tunnel. Rear wings are also not created equal. Height… though important is not as important as shape. An upside down wing producing lift in a downward direction gives far more force then just an angled sheet in the wind, and it works at lower speeds. RTR is also rumored to have perfected this with as much as 1200 lbs. This type of force would only hurt our overall lap times with stock hp, but would keep you glued like a slot car. Ill come back to this after the side skirts. Most side skirts are for looks, the ugly RTR ones that over exaggerate and lip out actually give down force in the turns.

Before my supercharged engine was finished for the WC car, I couldn’t resist taking the car to the track. The stock engine wouldn’t even push max RPM in fourth gear. The car wasn’t finished yet- no sway bar, wrong springs, corner balance was off, street tires, no alignment, you get the idea. Well I remember getting loose in a high speed sweeper, but the faster I took it the better the grip until I eventually went from feeling worse off then stock to being able to take the turn flat out. It was a difficult phenomenon to get over... the last thing you want to do naturally when you’re out of control... is go faster:)
See you in Ohio
 
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DONYMO said:
Rob,

Can't you make a good argument for a vented hood since the NSX-R has one?

I’m shocked and defiantly discouraged- I received a response from the series, they told us they wouldn’t give us any concessions… not even vents in the hood, and that we should go to the 3.2 and 6-speed to be competitive. With that combination we have to run a 200 lb weight increase, and spend a conservative $15k a car… to find out that the extra 20hp is a wash. It was a very educational conversation! All I can say is DAL needs help… I’m not sure we can afford their pledge process.

Oh- I talked to HART as of yesterday they are dropping out of the series (For now), because the series wont recognize that they are under powered. They wont be at the Glen.
 
Rob,

Sorry to hear this.
I hope y'all find some other good ways to get an advantage on the field.
 
brake balance (lockup/bias) issues ?

I was watching the SpeedTV telecast awhile back (taped it IIRC), and in several instances the commentators noted a bit of a "wiggle" under braking, and they inferred some sort of brake balance problems, possibly needing more F/R bias adjustment.

From your perspective, was this an issue at Mont Tremblant ?? Note: I only caught segments with Vaughn D at the wheel, in the black NSX racecar.

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RacerX-21 said:
Before my supercharged engine was finished for the WC car, I couldn’t resist taking the car to the track.
a bit off-tangent here, but...

Rob, are you still planning to campaign your SC (Vortech?) NSX in World Challenge GT class ?? Its unfortunate that the RTR NSX has retired again; hopefully you can continue to benefit from their experience and R&D investments.
 
Yes we do have a bias issue, I like to adjust bias with a balance bar (When allowed) or with different pads. We already use a less aggressive pad in the rear to minimize rear lock-up. I can go one stage less aggressive in the rear, but I’m still benefiting from stiffer and stiffer front springs so that may also help keep the rears planted.
 
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