Crank bolt and RH Axle nut are OMG fused !!!

[Bravo]

I've been turning wrenches for some time, but I have never, ever come across a bolt and nut that have given me such a hard time.
The LR axle nut came off without too much fanfare, but the unstaked RR nut is proving to be wicked. I'll get it, but ugh.

The crank bolt is the tightest mf'r I have ever experienced with this size of bolt. WTH?
Records show my timing belt was done 9 years, and 17K miles ago, so I'm pulling the engine and doing the rear main seal, LMA's, hoses, and TB/WP. I have all the goodies, just time to get things loose.

I have the crank tool, and it works just fine, but I've snapped the heads off of two breaker bars (1/2" craftsman, and 1/2" snap on). This thing defies all logic. I've hit it with a 1000ft/lb Ingersoll Rand Ti impact. Warmed it (not too hot, just wanted to soften any loctite if some idiot before me used red). I've used 5ft pipe as my leverage inducer... 2"ft 1/2" mac extension supported by jackstand, and been applying my ample mass to the cheater pipe. It's absolutely insane. I'm really nervous if I go big and get some 3/4 or 1" drive leverage applied, I'm going to start snapping either the bolt, or crush the crank holding tool. It's that tight. The breaker bar on the crank tool actually almost lifted the car off the lift pads as it countered the force to the concrete floor.

I'm taking a break now as I'm soaked from the workout...

 

[nsxot1c]

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...shaft-pulley-bolt?highlight=crank+pulley+bolt

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

There's these things called... I forget the exact term but they're pretty common amongst nsx owners. They come in pairs, and they seem to sag slightly as they age.











Oh yeah, nuts.

JK, the link above should solve your problems.

 

[OLDMNSX]

Those 1/2" drives are for sissies, they shear off like butter. I NOW use a 3/4" drive breaker bar and 3/4" drive socket. Don't forget ear plugs too, when they let go they sound like a 9MM firing off.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

3/4 drive 1000ft.lb.+ reverse torque impact, takes at least 10 seconds.

BTW, if you are using a 1/2 drive impact I do not care what they say, it is not 1000 ft. lbs. reverse torque, and frankly NEVER worked for me.

Also make sure the trans is in gear and the e-brake is set, or lock the crankshaft another way.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Bravo]

Got it!!!

 

[Daedalus]

I must have "old stock" Craftsman tools lol. I don't even have tools larger than 1/2", except for a few large sockets I bought to use as drifts on a press. I used the exact same setup in the pic--extension out to a jack stand, 1/2" Craftsman breaker bar, and a 4' cheater bar on top of that (~5' lever length). I kept just enough weight on 1 foot to steady myself, and put the rest of my weight on the cheater bar, I'm guessing about 150 lbs or so. Then I started gently bouncing the bar up and down several times until she gave. I was certain the breaker snapped, but it was the bolt giving up. Done it 2x the same way. Just *slightly* easier the 2nd time.

 

[ATERPAK]

Also I would recommend a 6 point socket rather than a 12 point socket for these types of bolts with high torque needs. There will be less chance of rounding off the nut or bolt head with a good quality 6 point socket especially if your 12 point socket set has been used for awhile. I've never broken a 1/2" drive from an early model Craftsman breaker bar but I wouldn't trust the newer Craftsman tools even though they have a lifetime replacement policy just like the older ones. They don't seem to be made as well in my estimation. I also remember when I replaced my crankshaft harmonic pulley last year just as a precaution, Shad and I easily found the crank bolt came off with our 200 lb. air tool with no problem. In fact it was almost too easy. Supposedly Shad said that the spin direction of the engine crank pulley ends up tightening against the bolts normal tightening direction which should keep it from coming loose on it's own.

Al

 

[warrenw]

My father was a H/D mechanic his entire carrier. (40 + years) I inherited all his tools. He had a 3/4 drive socket set that stared at 1.5" and 40mm and went to socket size beyond 3 inch. There was a 3/4 ratchet (3 ft long), extensions, etc. Most were 6 point, but there was the odd 12 point, as some bolts in that world are actually 12 point bolts (Cummings). There was a SnapOn 3/4 impact set as well. I thought, I would never use this stuff, so I sold it all for thousands of dollars. I never thought I would need this kind of thing in the future. Hind site is 20/20, but I have needed just a bit of this big stuff for things like a crank pulley or spindle nut.

The main lesson here is, use the right tool for the job. Every once in a while I kick myself for selling his tools but you can buy or rent what you need, when you need it. Don't try and substitute the right tool for what you happen to have in the tool box. you could injure yourself, or worse, your car. I have rented big sockets, etc and the job is never held up because of tools. Most rental places rent 3/4 drive impact tools. It is amazing how much you can rent for $40.00.

I did keep Dad's SnapOn 3/4 drive torque wrench. It is a thing of beauty.

 

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Although the method of locking the flywheel or using the starter motor to loosen the crank pulley bolt is widely used on other makes and models, please do not use it on our NSX engine.
Our engine is V6 with 90deg V-angle so the crank pin has 30deg offset.
The FEA on crankshaft showed the evidence that if you applied excessive force, it could cause tiny ‘kink’ to the crankshaft.
You won’t be able to notice it by just running the engine without carrying out the detailed measurement but it won’t be the same crankshaft as before.

It could be fine for tightening process but definitely big no-no for loosening the super tight pulley bolt.
From time to time, I had to apply over 1,000Nm before I can even make tiny movement to the pulley bolt.
Please do not take any risks.

As a side note, please clean and apply the engine oil at the specified area on installation of the pulley bolt.
It makes big difference on the next time when you need to remove the bolt.


Kaz

 

[goldNSX]

I like the photo.
For those kind of things I only deal with 3/4 inch tools. I don't want to be around if a 1/2 tool is breaking.

Oh, BTW, remember to just oil the threads of the crankshaft bolt, NOT the contact area of the bolt washer orselse you'll definitly need 3/4 tools next time.

1/2 tools with a 'silencer': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DQMzZdO1_A Forget 1/2 tools.

 

[ralph cerbone]

3/4 drive 1000ft.lb.+ reverse torque impact, takes at least 10 seconds.

BTW, if you are using a 1/2 drive impact I do not care what they say, it is not 1000 ft. lbs. reverse torque, and frankly NEVER worked for m

Also make sure the trans is in gear and the e-brake is set, or lock the crankshaft another way.

Regards,
LarryB

Hey Larry is that gun still working ? Iam trying to get rebuild kits for it , my Ingersoll rep wants to know where I got it , told her too long of as story ,just see what you can do !

 

[BrakeExpert]

Just throwing this out there.

A lot of the breaker bars I see have a pin so they can rotate, and a large handle.All of the torque is going through that iron pin maybe a quarter inch in diameter, so the contact surface of all that torque is going through two little lines. I've also seen ones that they rent at Autozone by a brand called 'oem'. They have a wider head, and if you look at the contact between the head and the iron bar like disperses pressure to the actual bar from the 1/2" drive end rather than all the torque going through a little pin. I for one find that the more extensions you have increases the play and reduces the possibility of it actually coming off.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Hey Larry is that gun still working ? Iam trying to get rebuild kits for it , my Ingersoll rep wants to know where I got it , told her too long of as story ,just see what you can do !

Still working like a champ.......The other thing that matters for this is your air supply, 140PSI cranks that baby very well.

 

[ekhonda87]

There's these things called... I forget the exact term but they're pretty common amongst nsx owners. They come in pairs, and they seem to sag slightly as they age.

This gave me a good laugh!

 

[ralph cerbone]

Still working like a champ.......The other thing that matters for this is your air supply, 140PSI cranks that baby very well.

Good ,glad to hear it ,now can you imagine running that gun for 8 hrs a day, wonder why these old timers were deaf &had carpul tunnel syd.

 

[shawn110975]

gett'er done LOL never let a bolt beat you. good job.

 

[ftuhy]

:redface:

I like the photo.
For those kind of things I only deal with 3/4 inch tools. I don't want to be around if a 1/2 tool is breaking.

Oh, BTW, remember to just oil the threads of the crankshaft bolt, NOT the contact area of the bolt washer orselse you'll definitly need 3/4 tools next time.

1/2 tools with a 'silencer': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DQMzZdO1_A Forget 1/2 tools.

I think you and I have had opposite views of lubricating the pulley bolt before. :biggrin: Your comment of "threads only" must be from a '91 shop manual. My '95/96 factory manual, page 6-12, has a diagram that very clearly shows and states to lubricate both the threads and between the bolt head and the washer. It also says to clean (not lube) the side of the washer that faces the crank pulley. We can compare notes again when I do the belt for the second time in a few more years. :wink:

We fully agree on the 3/4" drive for this. And use a 6 point socket; I rounded the bolt head a little with a 12-point. Bought a new bolt and 6 point socket at the same time!:redface: