Corner balancing costs
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
Don't hold me to this but I believe doing the alignment and corner balancing here by Darin at Westend Alignment ran about $250. You can give Darin a call to compare what his prices are to yours. The only thing is that if that is the only reputable shop around where you live then you have to work with what you got unless you are willing to drive your car further out to get it done.
18008 South Vermont Avenue Gardena, CA 90248-4007 - (310) 808-9233
Just called. It's $250 allright. I don't see why such a difference
Be cautious of paying ridiculous prices for having your car corner balanced. I've heard of and seen many 'reputable' shops completely ruin the setup of cars (which visually look wrong from the stance of the car alone) to hit the 'magic' 50% cross weight -by doing it wrong and/or being lazy.
When in doubt, save your money, and just make sure the dampers are the same height Right to Left.
It's better to have your damper lengths all even than a poor corner balancing with a >0.5" difference from right to left.
0.02
When in doubt, save your money, and just make sure the dampers are the same height Right to Left.
It's better to have your damper lengths all even than a poor corner balancing with a >0.5" difference from right to left.
0.02
So Dave after your posts about not finding a place to help adjust your susp...who did you find????
BTW Billy, update your glen thread we would love to hear about the experience vs your regular mustang ride,,how does the stock car perform vs the grand am car?
BTW Billy, update your glen thread we would love to hear about the experience vs your regular mustang ride,,how does the stock car perform vs the grand am car?
+1 to West End. Darin did my alignment a month or so ago. No complaints.
So Dave after your posts about not finding a place to help adjust your susp...who did you find????
I don't know some kid on the forum named Billy Johnson emailed me and told me in detail what to do with them and how to set them up. I was like "whatever dude, talk to me when you learn how to drive".
LOL... no $hit. He just comes on the forum and starts posting as if he just had a day at the office.... lol...
Billy now you got me worried. Whats the "proper" way and how do I know if they will do it? I think both shops I contacted are involved in racing, although none know the NSX.
Dave, here's the thing.... don't stress over it.
Billy is right. You are setting up a street car not a race car. Think of it as a table. If one corner is shorter than the other the table wobbles. So the most important thing is that the ride heights are close. If you take that table and put a basket of fruit on one side then the legs aren't really supporting equal weight but since the legs are even it doesn't wobble.
It doesn't matter if your cross weights are 50% or 49/51% etc because the truth of the matter is that is under one specific condition at static rest. Gas weighs 6/lbs a gallon so your "corner balance" is off as you burn through fuel. Throw an instructor or passenger in the right seat - 200 lbs, etc, etc.
So Billy's point is if your ride height on the L is close to the R than that will get you close enough. So what happens if you are a little off? Well, in theory the car may understeer on L turns and be neutral on R or vice versa, etc. But what happens if tire pressure is 1/2 lb higher on one side than the other? Same thing. Or what happens if you had a big lunch?
So you have to look at theory and reality. In theory, yes you want a perfect 50% cross weight. Reality - there are too many variables at play in a high performance car hauling ass around a track. If your ride at on the L rear is with a 1/8" of the right and same with the fronts, then that will be close enough that you won't mess up the handling. A good alignment after install is more important.
Just my $0.02
So why do people corner balance cars - well it's a starting point to kind of zero out the table and legs. :wink: But as I said, it's theory more than reality.
PS: If both shops have experience setting up race cars it doesn't matter if they even know what an NSX is.... they'll do just fine. My guy was the chassis engineer for Champion Porsche's race cars and the Audi ALMS, F1 many years ago, etc, etc. I tell him what the car is doing on the track and he goes in the back for a couple of hours and brings the car around front when he is done. I'm also lucky in that he likes teaching too - he tells me what he changed and more importantly why, what the anticipated results should be. Now, if I could just drive the damn car better.
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Jim Billy said "damper height" and you say "ride height" which to me can be different. If I get the 4 dampers the exact same length before I put them in is that good enough? Not sure if this is what Billy meant or if you guys are talking different things. Its easy to get damper heights the same before install.
I think these cannisters will be a PITA to mount though....
I think these cannisters will be a PITA to mount though....
yes, my bad.... damper height. But the front and rear will be different and should be. Want you want to pay attention to is both the fronts are the same and both rears are the same - the car has about 38mm of rake. Ride heights should end up pretty close (with in a 1/4") as well L to R.
Dave to be honest, if you are taking it to a shop that has experience setting up race cars or even HPDE cars, they'll probably do a pretty good job for you. They usually look at the OEM setup (manual page 18-2), drop it equally all the way around and check the rake (front to rear height) and then corner balance from there. Corner balancing usually only requires small changes. I think I read that NSX2tall installed his coilovers and bought scales and it turns out it was with a 1/10% right off the bat without adjustment.
But you only have to corner balance once and it's set (unless you change out springs or drastically change ride height), so $100-200 + alignment isn't bad and will give you peace of mind it's setup right. BTW: My guy charges by the hour and it ends up being around $350 to corner balance and align. And he always takes it for a quick spin to make sure the wheel is perfectly straight and car tracks without pulling. He takes pride in his work. One of my pet peeves is when you drive away from an alignment shop and the wheel is ever so cocked when the car is going straight.
Not sure where TiDave mounted his JRZ 3 ways, but there are some pics on Prime of where John@Microsoft mounted his on the engine strut bar. Also SOS sells mounting brackets for the Motons which probably are the same size as your KWs (ask Billy). --- ScienceofSpeed Moton / JRZ Suspension Reservoir Billet Clamp $124 (each) - ouch, never mind these.
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+1Dave, here's the thing.... don't stress over it.
Billy is right. You are setting up a street car not a race car. Think of it as a table. If one corner is shorter than the other the table wobbles. So the most important thing is that the ride heights are close. If you take that table and put a basket of fruit on one side then the legs aren't really supporting equal weight but since the legs are even it doesn't wobble.
It doesn't matter if your cross weights are 50% or 49/51% etc because the truth of the matter is that is under one specific condition at static rest. Gas weighs 6/lbs a gallon so your "corner balance" is off as you burn through fuel. Throw an instructor or passenger in the right seat - 200 lbs, etc, etc.
So Billy's point is if your ride height on the L is close to the R than that will get you close enough. So what happens if you are a little off? Well, in theory the car may understeer on L turns and be neutral on R or vice versa, etc. But what happens if tire pressure is 1/2 lb higher on one side than the other? Same thing. Or what happens if you had a big lunch?
So you have to look at theory and reality. In theory, yes you want a perfect 50% cross weight. Reality - there are too many variables at play in a high performance car hauling ass around a track. If your ride at on the L rear is with a 1/8" of the right and same with the fronts, then that will be close enough that you won't mess up the handling. A good alignment after install is more important.
Just my $0.02
So why do people corner balance cars - well it's a starting point to kind of zero out the table and legs. :wink: But as I said, it's theory more than reality.
PS: If both shops have experience setting up race cars it doesn't matter if they even know what an NSX is.... they'll do just fine. My guy was the chassis engineer for Champion Porsche's race cars and the Audi ALMS, F1 many years ago, etc, etc. I tell him what the car is doing on the track and he goes in the back for a couple of hours and brings the car around front when he is done. I'm also lucky in that he likes teaching too - he tells me what he changed and more importantly why, what the anticipated results should be. Now, if I could just drive the damn car better.
But - Corner balancing is done to have equal cross weights with you in the car. Throw a passenger in the car, put something in the trunk, or eat a big lunch - and your corner balancing is now useless. Fuel load shouldn't affect it since the fuel tank is in the middle of the car, even R-L. To "zero out the table and legs" - you set the dampers to the same length L-R.
The shop dosn't need experience with the NSX. But again, I just caution you because so many have had their ride heights goofed up. IMO because of the above, save yourself a few hundred $ and just set them the same R-L. In all reality you wont feel a 1-2% off of 50% cross. Many racers don't.
I'll post something about the Nascar race later, I gotta catch a plane for my next Grand Am race in Quebec in about 4hrs...
Jim, Ross told me that to get the cannisters into the body you have to have a hole some place that you can fit the cannister through. I thought they came off and reattached, but he said no. John had modd'ed the snot out of his NSX so I don't think cutting a 3" home some place was beyond him.
I'll find some solution... hopefully I won't be black flagged for having a cannister dangling behind me on the track at WGI next month.... hahaha
I'll find some solution... hopefully I won't be black flagged for having a cannister dangling behind me on the track at WGI next month.... hahaha
For $500 you're halfway there to buying your own scales and doing it yourself. That's what I recommend since you have a fancy race suspension and will most likely in the future want to change the ride height, balance, etc. Do you want to pay someone in the future $500 a pop, or $100 a pop (for basic alignment after you've corner-balanced)?
On your newer '05, I agree with setting up damper height before installing it in your car as a baseline. However, for others with older '90's models and over 125000 miles, the car itself is probably tweaked to some extent. Corner balance is good peace of mind if you can't explore the cars limits in a controlled environment. Remember, Honda designed the aluminum frame for a 20 year design life :wink:
Dave
On your newer '05, I agree with setting up damper height before installing it in your car as a baseline. However, for others with older '90's models and over 125000 miles, the car itself is probably tweaked to some extent. Corner balance is good peace of mind if you can't explore the cars limits in a controlled environment. Remember, Honda designed the aluminum frame for a 20 year design life :wink:
Dave
ya, I guess I didn't really think that one through...
PS: Dave I wouldn't bother with the corner balance at this point because you may be changing those 1200+/900+ lbs springs out. :wink: Although, when I was running 1000/800 with my Comptech Pros it wasn't that bad even on the street.
Try dropping the Compression setting (bump) way soft in the rear for a comfy street setting. Another Primer turned me on to this setting with our JRZs for the street which he found by accident --- I leave the fronts at my normal track setting and drop the rear compression to the second softest but leave the rebound at the track setting. The car gives a better ride than dropping both front and rear comp and rebound and doesn't bounce or float. Seems to work.
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ZIP TIE the canisters to your tow hooks in the rear, or subframe, something solid. DO NOT velcro it to anything! (I hope I did not catch the sarcasm).
ZIP TIE the canisters to your tow hooks in the rear, or subframe, something solid. DO NOT velcro it to anything! (I hope I did not catch the sarcasm).
Billy I think you've been in a hot nascar too long if you think I would velcro canisters to calipers.... hahahahahaha....
