Coolant Hose Ruptured- Need info

[ilya]

A large coolant hose ruptured yesterday on my drive home from San Diego. Since I have no engine cover, I saw a huge splash all over the inside glass. It looked like somebody dumped a bucket of water on the car... excpet inside the engine compartment.
The temp automatically began to rise so I new it was a coolant leak.
I pulled over within a minute before the temp got too high ( a couple notches below red) and had a flatbed tow it the rest of the way home. This happened late last night.

Being the always helpful guy that he is, Larry will be driving over today to replace the busted hose and check everything to make sure there are no other problems. I want to drop by the dealer and buy a brand new hose for him to replace. Problem is, there are so many sizes and variants I have no idea what to ask for from the dealer. Larry won't be up until later in the day and I wanted to have it ready to go for his arrival. Can anyone give me an idea of the name/size/info on the hose I need.

I looked into the motor this morning in the light. It's a short, very thick, curved hose. It runs from under the intake (approx) into an opening in the engine bay wall(center) where it's tightened over a large metal tube. That tube also has some sort of small knob on the end.
Does someone know which one I am referring to and what info I need to give the dealer to get the right one? Thanks

On second thought, should I just replace all three (or four???) coolant hoses in there while I'm at it. If one was old and needed replacing, I'm sure they all do. The hoses aren't expensive anyway. Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 08 April 2002).]

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Reference/1991-1992_parts_catalog/1-g2.jpg

Ilya,

what you need is either #10 or #11. I would recommend to replace both. The hose clamp can be reuse.

 

[NSXTC]

The Porsche guys at the track are always amazed to find out that many NSX'es are still running around with 10 or 12 year old hoses!

REPLACE THEM ALL!!

 

[ilya]

Thanks for the info Andrie. I can use that to get the right hoses.

When you guys say ALL the hoses, how many are there? Just the three big ones or are there a lot more?

I will be upgrading to AAA plus today. I had to pay $100 to get it towed 20 miles yesterday and that's unacceptable. Plus will cover me for over 100 miles. Wish I knew that before hand.

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 08 April 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

I replaced my hoses a couple of years ago as a preventive. If I'm not mistaken, I recall that there were five of them.

 

[Saturn]

ilya, just curious, how many miles were on the hose when it ruptured ?

What's the typical life span of these hoses under normal (no track, racing) driving conditions?

 

[ilya]

I don't know if the previous owner ever replaced them or not. It's a 92 with 90K so if they are original I guess it's not surprising it did.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by Saturn:
ilya, just curious, how many miles were on the hose when it ruptured ?

What's the typical life span of these hoses under normal (no track, racing) driving conditions?

From my experience the big coolant hoses on most cars are typically good for at most 8-9 years. Being older and wiser now I no longer wait that long. It only takes one (ok, 2 if you're a bit slow...) blown hoses and ruined trips to wise up and replace them. At the very least, if taking a long trip I would carry hoses and belts but you're much better off replacing them in the shop than on the side of the interstate.

from Gates Rubber Company, hose & belt manufacturer:

What you can't see can hurt you. That's what Gates engineers discovered during four years of field testing on fleet vehicles. In these tests, they identified the primary cause of coolant hose failure as an electrochemical attack on the rubber tube compound in the hose.

The phenomenon is known as electrochemical degradation, or ECD. It occurs because the hose, liquid coolant (ethylene glycol antifreeze and water), and the engine/radiator fittings form a galvanic cell or "battery." This chemical reaction causes microcracks in the hose tube, allowing the coolant to attack and weaken the hose reinforcement.<snip>A replacement interval of four years for all coolant carrying hoses -- especially the upper radiator, bypass and heater hoses -- can help prevent unexpected failure from ECD. The incidence of hose failure increases sharply after four years for most vehicles.

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[ilya]

Could this be a DIY job or is there too much involved? When I checked this morning, it looked like I could access both hoses by simply removing the RM intake in the way. They were attached by a simple clip on each end.
Since almost all the coolant has leaked out of my system already, is it as simple as:
1. Unclipping and removing old hoses
2. Fitting on new one and reclipping
3. Pouring new coolant back into the system

I would like to save Larry the trip to LA if I could just do this myself. Out of curiosity, I checked at the local dealer and they want 3 hours labor (approx. $240). That seems too high, considering three hoses can be swapped in under an hour.

Am I missing a step? Do I need to bleed the system (don't have the equipment for that). Just checking on the difficulty to possibly save the guy an hour drive each way.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by ilya:
Could this be a DIY job or is there too much involved? When I checked this morning, it looked like I could access both hoses by simply removing the RM intake in the way. They were attached by a simple clip on each end.
Since almost all the coolant has leaked out of my system already, is it as simple as:
1. Unclipping and removing old hoses
2. Fitting on new one and reclipping
3. Pouring new coolant back into the system

I would like to save Larry the trip to LA if I could just do this myself. Out of curiosity, I checked at the local dealer and they want 3 hours labor (approx. $240). That seems too high, considering three hoses can be swapped in under an hour.

Am I missing a step? Do I need to bleed the system (don't have the equipment for that). Just checking on the difficulty to possibly save the guy an hour drive each way.

For me, this would be a DIY unless the car was in for some other service that required them removing a hose anyway. If someone else is doing anything involving belts and hoses always get it replaced. It is cheap insurance.
For someone who is not a real big DIY type: hoses that have been in place for years are often reluctant to leave their nice comfy homes. Frustration and skinned knuckles are high on the list of side-benefits of doing this type of work. It is good for you, however, to experience these things in the greater scheme of owning and driving an exotic sports car.

Not sure what equipment you think you need to bleed the system??

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[ilya]

***Not sure what equipment you think you need to bleed the system?? ***

I assumed some wrenches and sockets to remove the 'large black piece' under the car to get to some bleed points. Also proper jack stands which I don't have. I could reach into the engine bay and unclip some hoses, but doing a full bleed is a bit beyond my experience level. I read up on Brent's tech about this and it doesn't seem like something I would attempt on my own the first time. Is this something I would have to do right away? I was thinking about replacing the two/three hoses under the coolant bottle, filling up the system, then driving it to NSX Modified to have a proper flush done. It would save them the trip.

I will not do this if it's a bad idea or unsafe. I'm trying to get a gauge on whether I should do what I mentioned above, then drive it down or whether that would be unsafe.

OR wrap the tear with DUCT tape, fill the system, and drive it to the shop.

Is that safe for a 45 minute drive down the freeway?

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 08 April 2002).]

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Ilya,

it is pretty simple, especially if your airbox is out of the way. We did it in the track!

Just replace both at the same time. The problem is to catch all the coolant for recycle.

Bleeding is easy. If I recall correctly, there are 4 bleeder point for NSX. 2 up front and two in the engine bay. It is easy to locate, but for first timer, better refer to the owners manual. No need shop manual for this.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by ilya:
***Not sure what equipment you think you need to bleed the system?? ***

Oh, ok, I didn't realize you meant basic stuff like stands and wrenches. Here I thought you were picturing some sort of specialized stuff with lots of dials and switches and so on...

It is a simple thing to do - but things like this are always best done the first time with an experienced friend guiding you. As for changing the hose, filling the system, and driving to the shop - the problem is if air is trapped at the high points in the system you are not going to get full flow and you're risking big-bucks type damage. Finally, duct-taping the damaged hose and driving to the shop is a bad idea. It can be done as a limp-home emergency measure - but it is not worth the risk in your situation. BTW, if you ever do try to limp home this way - heater on full blast and turn the radiator cap to the first notch to avoid pressurizing the system. These two little tricks have saved me on other cars in the past. I've had a couple of mid-engine cars that were notorious for cooling system problems.


------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[Hiroshima]

Ilya,

Andre is correct the top two are not *THAT* hard to replace. After all he replaced one of my brother's hose at the track (Thanks again Andre)

But as for what Lud mentioned, "Replace them All" I would. I replaced them all as a DIY and did all but a few. I *DID* skip one of the big ones that is under the center tunnel because I just could not get up under there. I also did not replace the two smaller (14-16mm in dia) hoses that go to the oil filter housing. I could not for the life of me figure out out the get them off much less get them back on.

In all I think I spent about $150 on hoses and who knows how much time in the garage. Bleeding is easier if you only bleed the the hoses and radiator and NOT the engine. I know that if you do it that way you will not replace all the fluid but it is alot easier to get air bubbles out of the pipes and radiator than it is the engine with all the nooks and crannies.

As for tools the absolute most important tool you can have is a good pair of mechanix (or griots in my case) gloves. They protect your kunckles from the sharp crap down there, they give you extra grip even with sweaty or coolant soaked hands, and they give you the confidence to really twist the hoses on all the way because you are *NOT* worried about your hands getting gouged.

To answer your question, no it is not safe to duct tape it. Chances are you will pop the tape and have to get towed again :-(

If the dealer is charging 3 hours for ALL the hoses I would say spend the moeny and do it. As A. Henderson said, it is a bit of a pain in the a$$ and IMHO the 3 hours of labor the dealer wants to charge MAY be worth your wild in NOT doing it yourself.

I hope I shead some light.

Jeff


****EDIT***
Forgot to mention that I replaced something like 18-20 hoses. I think that was one of your questions.

[This message has been edited by Hiroshima (edited 08 April 2002).]

 

[ilya]

Thanks for all the info guys.
I didn't think DUCT tape would be a good idea, but it was worth asking.

I think I'm going to have to wait on this one and have them come down. Most of the coolant has long leaked out of there. I could replace the hoses myself, but I am concerned about air in the system. If that is the case, I don't want to risk damaging anything and I am not comfortable flushing the system myself... just replacing hoses.

Alas, if it was $240 for all the hoses I would do it. The dealer wants that just for the 3 hoses under the coolant bottle, labor only. I would rather replace them myself and just have them flush the system for me. It's not the price, but the principle. An hour per hose labor just won't fly. I would go to Gold Coast Acura, but that is too far too tow the car.

One things for sure. I just purchased AAA PLUS membership for only an extra $25/year and plan to keep it that way for the rest of my days. I now get 100 miles free towing per call instead of 7. It would have saved me $100 last night. It would also have allowed me to just tow my car 50 miles to the shop, but it won't take effect until next week.
I highly recommend this option for those who have AAA.

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by ilya:
When you guys say ALL the hoses, how many are there? Just the three big ones or are there a lot more?]

Ilya,

I just replaced the radiator hoses in my '91 last summer when one of them ruptured. I believe the cost for the four hoses was around $100-120. It took my brother and me about 2 hours to flush and bleed the system and replace the hoses. The dealer suggests using their antifreeze after this procedure (I think it is already premixed). I have had no heating/cooling problems since the replacement.

Good Luck and I hope this helps.

------------------
'91 Black/Black

 

[BoneZ]

Getting old hoses off is one of the biggest pains in the ass, if you are simply "tugging" or "pulling" on them, or twisting them off.

Ive found that since I don't care about the old hoses anymore, I use an exacto blade/knife and slice the hose at the nipple down the center of the hose. Then just grab it and peel it off.

Its really easy, and since you arn't keeping the old hoses it saves a LOT of knuckle smashing.

Just my 2 cents...

-B

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by BoneZ:
Ive found that since I don't care about the old hoses anymore, I use an exacto blade/knife and slice the hose at the nipple down the center of the hose. Then just grab it and peel it off.

Yes, this is exactly what Gates recommend and it works. Another tip is to warm the new hose in fairly hot water and lubricate the pipe or fitting with something appropriate for whatever liquid the hose carries. Meaning you lube with coolant for the hoses we are talking about.



------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Guys,

Just an FYI, I just purchased the four hoses, the four main large ones, two in front, and two in the engine bay (may have to order a fifth?). The three short hoses were $18.75 and the large one in the front was $25 and change. So the four hoses totaled about $80 or so. This is Neillo pricing from Eric Milam.

If anyone can clarify the "fifth" hose I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
LarryB

 

[Soichiro]

There are a total of 8 hoses in the NSX cooling system. Here's a list along with prices from A+H Motors in PA.

Front Upper hose= $22.30
Front Lower hose= $26.25
Rear Upper hose= $22.30
Rear lower hose= $22.30
Middle Upper hose= $23.95
Middle lower hose= $26.95
Expansion(overflow tank) Hose(upper)= $5.45
Expansion hose(lower)= $6.30

 

[ilya]

Thanks for all the info and ideas guys. Slicing the hose to pull it off sounds like it will make my job much easier.
I'm going to order the 2 main hoses in the engine compartment today and give it a shot when they arrive. If it ends up being as simple as it sounds, I'll probably order some more and do them too.

If it works out, I'll just tow the car to the local dealer and just pay for the flush and bleed after I'm done with the hoses. It will save Larry a long trip down to LA.

Of course, if anyone in the Los Angeles area has the basic tools (jack stands, sockets)and knowledge to assist me with a flush and bleed, I have a large private driveway, drain, and lots of food. I'm not experienced enough to attempt it myself.

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 09 April 2002).]

 

[ilya]

Update:

I ordered the hoses, but it was a bit too late. Larry already picked up a new set at a dealer and showed up at my place last night around 11pm. In the dark and with a small flashlight, he swapped out the 2 larger hoses in about 20 minutes and poured in new coolant. We ran the heater full blast for a while and then drove the car for 10-15 minutes... running well again.

This should be enough to get me to the shop. We can then replace the rest of the hoses, flush and bleed the whole system right and be done.

A HUGE thanks to Larry and Ruben once again for saving my sorry ars and driving all the way to LA to help a stranded guy out.

And to think the local Acura dealer wanted $240 to swap those three hoses.