Coolant filling question (no water in block?)

[d.n]

Hi all,

Hopefully somebody has an answer for this one. I recently did the whole drain / refill of coolant (drained block, tubes, and radiator). I noticed when refilling that I was only able to put in ~3.5-4gallons of water and water never come out of the thermostat housing bleeder even when I completely remove the bleeder. I also don't hear any rushing air when I open the thermostat bleeder. I raised the rear of the car ~2-3' to try and burp it, but I noticed the water level didn't drop much. Perhaps another 1/2 cup of water went in.

That was yesterday. So I slept on it and I was a bit suspicious of this still so today I put the car up in the air and opened the block drains on the front and rear to see if there was anything in there and sure enough no water came out even when the bleed screws were completely removed (no rushing air sounds either). I'm assuming this is not normal and I have some blockage here? Any ideas on how I can trace this or clear it out? Should I go through and pull off each hose to see which ones are full and which are empty or is there any easier way ie thermostat commonly blocked and causes this?

[edit] I should mention that water flows out of the other 3 bleed locations just fine (heater core plug, radiator top plug, water pipe fitting in the firewall access hole)

 

[ftuhy]

Questions: Total mileage? History of coolant changes - ie, how often was it changed in the past? Did anyone ever add stop-leak? Did they use an antifreeze that at least claimed it was compatible with aluminum?

The silicates problem with certain anti-freeze solutions from about 10 years ago caused leaky seals, but from what I understand it should not clog drain plugs. Sure, using Acura/Honda antifreeze is the safest choice. However, if whatever antifreeze was used did not contain anti-corrosion additives to protect aluminum, that could be problematic.

It sounds to me as if there is a lot of crud in the block. Remove the drain fittings (thermostat and the two on the block) and insert a small screwdriver or a fat wire (a #12 copper wire will work) and see if you can ream out the crud in that area to get the drains working.

With 60k mi on my '96, water reliably comes pouring out of all the drains. So, you definitely have something unusual.:frown:

 

[pgilliam1]

Did you start and run the engine? That may open the thermostat and solve your problem (if you followed the bleed procedure in the service manual you shouldn't have to do this - it is important that you follow the exact sequence in the manual). Keep a good eye on the temp guage, it should rise slowly. If it rises quickly be sure to shut the engine off. Was the old fluid you removed clear and clean?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

DO NOT run the engine if you think there is no water in the block.

What I have found is that the block drains can clog over time. I would remove the drain ends from the block drains, and insert a pick or maybe even an end of a wire hanger to see if they can be cleared. There is no way that if you have 3.5-4 gallons in there that the block really is empty. There is no place for that much coolant to go, unless it is all over the floor.

But, until you prove that, do not run it.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[LJSB]

DO NOT run the engine if you think there is no water in the block.

:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[d.n]

Thanks guys, awesome advice here. Particularly the piece about there being no way that the block is empty. My fear was that no water coming out of the thermo housing bleeder would mean that there would be no water behind the temp sensor. In any case I'll give the coat hanger idea a whirl.

The history here is that I saw a bunch of hard caked deposits while changing the water pump along with some goo, but the main tubes in the tunnel forward looked fairly clean. The motor is not the original and I suspect it had all sorts of different coolants mixed in there.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Again, just make sure you confirm there is coolant in there, BEFORE you start it up.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[d.n]

Thanks Larry. If I can't get the drains/bleeder working, I'll look for a coolant hose in the block that I can pull off to make sure coolant is in there (I assume this is the best way to check that).

 

[nikey22]

If you remove the oil cooler (which you should as you'll need to replace the figure 8 gasket, and those 2 pesky short hoses), that should drain the block almost completely.

 

[d.n]

It turns out that there was plenty of water in there. The housings that the bleeders sit in were all clogged with hard deposits. For the two block drains, I just removed the 14mm fittings that the bleeders sit in and punched it out with a coat hanger from the back (Thanks for the suggestion Larry!). It required quite a bit of force and I was surprised to see how solid the deposits where. On the thermostat housing, I didn't want to open it if I didn't have to so I used used a pair of dykes to cut the wire hanger. That left a sharpened edge that I used like a drill bit to slowly dig out the deposits in that housing. After 4-5 min of work, I was rewarded with a nice pop and hiss as the air and water finally had a way to escape.

Thanks again to all for the ideas on how to fix this one

 

[nikey22]

hard water deposits this extreme could indicate improper coolant use, reacting with the aluminum, maybe the pH was off too... make sure to use only Honda coolant, and I would probably not wait too long to do this again, 30,000 miles may be too long of an interval.

 

[ftuhy]

If you use any anti-freeze that requires mixing with water, go buy a couple gallons of distilled water. Its dirt cheap and well worth it for keeping unwanted minerals, etc out of the engine.

If you don't use Honda antifreeze, make sure what you use is compatible with and has anti-corrosion protection for aluminum cooling systems.

(I won't get into the religious war here, but I don't use Honda antifreeze in my Corvette, SLK or NSX, and they all drain clean and clear with no blocking of drains plugs/fittings. All are > 10 yrs old and > 50kmi.)

 

[robbiedawg]

If you use any anti-freeze that requires mixing with water, go buy a couple gallons of distilled water. Its dirt cheap and well worth it for keeping unwanted minerals, etc out of the engine.

If you don't use Honda antifreeze, make sure what you use is compatible with and has anti-corrosion protection for aluminum cooling systems.

(I won't get into the religious war here, but I don't use Honda antifreeze in my Corvette, SLK or NSX, and they all drain clean and clear with no blocking of drains plugs/fittings. All are > 10 yrs old and > 50kmi.)

+1 on the distilled water. i think acura coolant is good stuff.but,i got some the other day.i was at the dealer getting an inspection.i rarely go to the dealer bc we have a great independent mechanic around here named steve gooding,but he can't do our state inspections.i didn't ask how much it was,just said put it on the bill.

guess how much a gallon of acura 50/50 premix is? $27.! does that seem like a lot?

 

[Tom239]

guess how much a gallon of acura 50/50 premix is? $27.! does that seem like a lot?

It can be had for much less. The same coolant (with the same part number) is sold at Honda dealers as well.

 

[robbiedawg]

It can be had for much less. The same coolant (with the same part number) is sold at Honda dealers as well.

i checked the local honda dealer,and it was $20.,still a lot for a gallon of premix. do you know how much it is at your dealer?

 

[Tom239]

i checked the local honda dealer,and it was $20.,still a lot for a gallon of premix. do you know how much it is at your dealer?

Been a couple years since I bought it so I don't know what my local dealer's current price is. (I bought enough for a few changes.)

I found it online for $14.08.

Santa Monica Acura has an Ebay store and lists it at $11.63.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Interesting. I was told previously that it is considered "Hazardous Material", and could not be shipped locally to residential addresses.

Also the stuff is quite heavy for shipping costs. I get in locally from my Honda Dealer.

Regards,
LarryB

Been a couple years since I bought it so I don't know what my local dealer's current price is. (I bought enough for a few changes.)

I found it online for $14.08.

Santa Monica Acura has an Ebay store and lists it at $11.63.

 

[ralph cerbone]

just changed all my hoses , my honda dealer charged 10.50 gal (310. for the hoses) this guy takes very good care of me , i tried to get them from tim polinak but his fax was down ,and email didnt go thru, (iwas a little squeezed for time ) my friend at honda loves the nsx and can get anthing i need (says just give him part #) three days he had the hoses . Last summer i asked him to get me door panel clips &hardware(stuff common to honda )this was on a friday , saturday morning he calls me its in , fed ex overnight , he had an order coming and just added my stuff to it , his name is XU( (pronouced shu) , iam not saying he is the most competitive price ,he just gets the job done !