Comparo: M3 vs NSX

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4 January 2007
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DFW/Conesus Lake NY
(Ok, I posted this on M3Forum as well, but thought it's relevant for Prime as well)

After having driven the NSX a fair bit now, I thought I'd give a brief comparison between an E46 M3 and an NA2 NSX. The E46 is the previous generation of M3, 2001-2006. Current, one is E92.

Seats - M3 has pretty awesome stock seats, with the benefit of nice side bolstering and lumbar support features. I always thought the M3 seats were underrated because they do well on long trips. Seat heater is a nice add-on. The NSX seats are more spartan with only 2-way control. They are surprisingly good given their basic appearance and old design. M3's are better but not sure you could even fit those into the tighter cabin of the NSX.

Driver Position - The NSX has a very unique perspective. It has an F1 feel to it. I'm sure there may be some other cars out there like it, but none that I've driven. It tops out the M3, even though M3's is excellent as well.

Interior - Without a doubt, the NSX interior is dated. There are not many comfort conveniences like a usable cupholder, Satellite radio, or even digital odometer. I think Honda did a poor job of updating it. My NSX is newer but inside you would never know. But the NSX is a pure driver's car, so you don't really miss those things--and most can be found on the aftermarket. The M3 interior (and mine is old, 01) has perfect ergonomics almost. Of course, newer cars will always have newer bling but the M3 gives you what you (pretty much) need. And not any additional clutter.

Power - Both are naturally aspirated, 3.2L engines with 8K redlines. The delivery is therefore similar and both cars become more fun as you rev high and scream to the limit. Acura has a nice VTEC kick later on. At 290hp, the NSX produces less output than 333hp for the M3, but the power/weight ratios are similar. I think 0-60 times of both cars are in the high 4's and low/mid 13's for 1/4 miles. Don't drag race, and neither are muscle cars but both quick enough. The NSX feels a bit faster, but the M3 might actually be. This difference might be accounted for by the lower weight, and the fact my NSX has suspension and is lowered. I would call this even.

Style - I am obviously quite biased but I think these are 2 of the best looking cars around. Both have a timeless appearance. LSB paint makes the M3 look exotic. NSX is an exotic by design. I really like them both. I think the 02+ update makes the NSX look better than the M3. Although I prefer the look of the M3 to the pre-02 NSXs, which are dated. Both cars look excellent modded, but I think a well-modded NSX is a class ahead. Obviously this is very subjective, as is all of this post. The M3 is a an E46 on steroids. The NSX is very unique and gets attention everywhere. Everybody asks what kind of car it is, people take pics, etc. M3 doesn't get that kind of love--which maybe better off for some people, depending on what you want. BTW, I think you ned to get north of $100K or into Italian exotics to really get better looking vehicles.

Daily Driveabilty - M3, hands down. As mentioned, the interior conveniences and add the large trunk, extra cabin space, and rear seats and it's way more useful. NSX has more rattles and squeaks, especially with the targa. M3 is an almost perfect daily driver. If you are tall, the NSX cabin is small and that may be a bit too much all of the time.

Reliability - M3 is quite quirky as many of you know. It requires alot of money for upkeep and there are always things that come up. Repairs, etc. It runs amazing as long as you put the $$ into it. I haven't had the NSX for that long, but thus far it's been aproblematic. That's a gem in a sports car. Honda reliablity in a higher end car is the hidden secret behind the NSX.

Gearbox - NSX has shorter throws and is more sporty. For some reason M3 has a broomstick which never really made sense given the whole sport version of the series. Again, this can be modded. I've kept mine stock and for me there is some appeal on the clumsy shifter as I've grown used to it. I like it.

Exhaust - Both cars have a nice stock note. I like the NSX because of the MR, you hear the howl right behind your ears. That's definitely an advantage and makes you really want to rev high. You do that in the M too, but the feedback from the engine position in the NSX is superior.

Suspension - Because I have a suspension on the NSX and not on the M3, it is isn't really a good comparison. I actually prefer the M3, maybe because I don't like modded suspensions as much. You get a nice road feel on both cars. I feel more planted in the M3, and have more confidence on single lane overtaking. I think I really know the M better due to having it for such a long time. As I learn the NSX more, this may even out. It's also easier to overtake in an M3 because in the NSX you are so low, that you can't see over the car in front of you so don't know what's ahead.

I guess I could keep going on, but both are great cars. I was contemplating which car to FI, and I think it will be the NSX. Stock is quick, but a nice SC or Turbo kit makes it really fast, on par with the newer fast cars of today. NSX looks like it should go faster, and I think there are more relative gains in this route. I still consider doing it to the M3, but the M3 feels fast as it should. Plus the reliability will be further compromised whereas the NSX chassis can more likely handle the extra boost with less consequence.

If I had to own one car only, it would be the M3 simply because of its practicality and every day ease of use. Not neccesarily because it is the better car. I don't really have a favorite yet--both are phenomenal in their own rights and I am fortunate to have driven both. I am very loyal the M as I've had it for over 6 years and know its ins and outs and have pushed it near its limits with supreme confidence. I think the cars are actually more similar than different, and it takes those who understand handling, balance and style are more important that HP & torque, to truly appreciate either one.
 
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Like the M3 a lot... Like BMWs in general and have owned a few (current daily driver is an 06 330xi)

Cant agree that an E46 M3 looks better than a pre-02 NSX, but thats subjective. To me the E46 M3 looks like an E46 which means it looks like a basic two door sedan. The pre facelift NSX is "dated" but its dated in the way that the Ferrari 308 or Lotus Esprit are "dated".

That said, I have never seen a sedan I think is interesting. Unless a car is a low slung two door, two seat, wedge type shape I tend to think its boring :D

Driving the M3 is a lot of fun though. A friend of mine had one back in 01 and I spent a couple of weeks out in CA with him just driving the hell out of it. His was a convertible with SMG.

This was in the wild innocent days before the engine failures and SMG melt downs! Yikes!
 
I had an 05 M3 same time as when I got my NSX. Miss it terribly but hardly drove it. Now that the E46 M3 are really cheap I'd love to pick one up again but that new one is sooo tempting and it's losing value quickly vs the old one that held it's value for quite awhile. Can't figure out why:confused:
 
Nice writeup, thanks for posting. Regarding the squeaks of the targa NSX, you absolutely need to get the upgraded chassis and sway bars. I would also recommend regularly lubricating the weatherstripping with Shin-Etsu grease (Honda product).

Agree that you should boost the NSX over the M3. If it were me, I would probably go the SOS SC route as I think that provides the best blend of reliability and a more linear power application.
 
Great write up. I've been eyeing the 01 thru 04's since the market on them plummeted. I'm on the forums weekly and wonder about the expensive service. Expensive service as in "dealer maintained"? How about the doityourselfer? I do most everything I can myself so would that ease the pain on "expensive upkeep?
 
I've never owned an E46, but have driven them some. I agree with most of the OPs comments, except the comments on the M3 seats. I personally think that E46 seats are hard as a rock, and combined with a seemingly stiffer suspension, make the car a heck of a lot more rough riding. I'd rather sit on a vibrating stadium bleacher.
 
GREAT WRITING, Thanks!

I think the 02+ update makes the NSX look better than the M3. Although I prefer the look of the M3 to the pre-02 NSXs, which are dated

well,

DSC02231.jpg


the E46 M3's are sweet looking cars, but even with a TON cosmetic mods. --like on the pic above-- they don't come close to the NSX in looks (I am lowered/spacers with a lip, that's it, vs crazy bumper crazy hood crazy headlights crazy mirrors. lowered etc etc on the pic above) ... yet, the only "dated" thing an pre 02 NSX are the pop-up, but that is subjective issue ...

Again, the M3's are gorgeous cars too.

OScar
 
....Daily Driveabilty - M3, hands down. As mentioned, the interior conveniences and add the large trunk, extra cabin space, and rear seats and it's way more useful. NSX has more rattles and squeaks, especially with the targa. M3 is an almost perfect daily driver. If you are tall, the NSX cabin is small and that may be a bit too much all of the time.
.....

My friend that sold me the NSX had a E46 M3 'vert prior to getting a 335 'vert.

Prior to the 93 NSX he bought a '00 NSX.

Conclusion: all cars with targas or 'verts tend to rattle and feel loose.

*trying to hold back on squeezing in FD is great, starting with the timeless look portion*

*must resist*
 
Excellent write-up... and I would tend to agree with most of the conclusions, save a couple that are, as stated, individally subjective.

At the track, the better overall balance of the M3 (any M3) makes it easier to drive/handle over the rear weigh bias of the NSX... but, that does make for some additional fun, once you learn how to catch and control it :eek:

Both great cars, but I'm still partial to the NSX... and the original M3 (e30).

-Wick
 
GREAT WRITING, Thanks!



well,

DSC02231.jpg


the E46 M3's are sweet looking cars, but even with a TON cosmetic mods. --like on the pic above-- they don't come close to the NSX in looks (I am lowered/spacers with a lip, that's it, vs crazy bumper crazy hood crazy headlights crazy mirrors. lowered etc etc on the pic above) ... yet, the only "dated" thing an pre 02 NSX are the pop-up, but that is subjective issue ...

Again, the M3's are gorgeous cars too.

OScar
Oscar you got any side pics of that M? Thanks.
 
All's I know is ... lately I've been wanting an FD. Can't explain it.

and I want a Z06, I need TORQUE and MUSCLE, v'6's are for girls! .. lol .. OK

back_on_topic.jpg
 
Liquid -- one of the reasons my car feels less planted or stable is this: when I'm changing lanes, it feels like the car is stuck in a groove on the road which quickly, almost violently shifts the car laterally. Not sure if it there is really a groove or not but it makes it feel less stable. Could this be due to tires or suspension? It doesn't happen that often but has somewhat decreased my confidence.

Oscar/Spookyp - your car looks amazing. I think all modded NSX's look really nice. I didn't meant to put down pre-02 styling. I like alot of older cars--E30M3, Supras etc. And in fact, many would consider the newer Nsx and E46 M3 dated as well.

Ski - alot of people would agree with your assessment on the seats. I like them, and have had good luck even with back issues. I guess people react differently. They're definitely not plush like an SUV.

davidf - The M3 is expensive to maintain. Problems come up, they cost money. If you can DIY and have a cheap, indy shop you can probably save alot of money. That goes without saying. But German is not bulletproof like Japanese.

Wingz - E46's have depreciated alot--now's a good time to pick one up. Even the newer ones fell, so you migh even get one with existing warranty if you like. I think the E92 didn't generate the buzz like the E46 did--which had sales over sticker, waiting lines, all that nonsense, etc. I think the E92 styling is less impressive (for its time) and you have competitors putting up bigger engine numbers. Couple that with this economy where there excellent deals to be had on used cars and you get less than stellar sales. Also the older M3 (like the NSX) was a landmark car in styling, peformance, etc.
 
Liquid -- one of the reasons my car feels less planted or stable is this: when I'm changing lanes, it feels like the car is stuck in a groove on the road which quickly, almost violently shifts the car laterally.

Type-R chassis bars should solve your problem.
 
Well thought out write-up. However, the ride is rougher in the M3. Not necessarily "stiffer", it just doesn't absorb bumps well. The gear box is just awful considering the package. The seats aren't even close to me. As far as looks go, it's 95% identical to a regular BMW coupe of the same years. Good looking car but it is what it is. I prefer the M3 motor though. I have never complained about NSX storage, beats the hell out of any other MR car. The real killer besides the gear box was the #$@#$! maintenance costs. Exactly 400 miles before the 36k warranty went out my 02 had 12k in PARTS replaced by the dealer (rear diff, throwout bearing, some other garbage). I sold it soon after.
 
Does the M3 really have poor reliability?

I read that the pre 2004 models have crank bearing issues, crack subframe. How about the 2004 + models? Any issues with the SMG or the convertible tops?
 
Type-R chassis bars should solve your problem.
I'm not sure how this recommendation was drawn from the given information.

Ozone: what tires and sizes are you running F&R, what's your alignment, and list of suspension mods?
 
i own an E46 M3. slightly modded. i drive/detail NSXs. if you want to drive a car and have fun with it, get the M3. if you just want to drive it occasionally, get the NSX.
 
Does the M3 really have poor reliability?

I read that the pre 2004 models have crank bearing issues, crack subframe. How about the 2004 + models? Any issues with the SMG or the convertible tops?

If you are interested, you can post some question on M3forum.net under the E46 M3 section--some good info there. There is a recall for inspection on the E46 subframe I believe--they will repair if cracked. It's not very common but it was the result of a class action lawsuit, so there must be enough examples. There was a rod bearing recall, probably not applicable to 04+ but don't remember off-hand. SMG failures are scary--but i'm a 6MT guy so I don't know too many details on that, nor on convertible tops.
 
I'm not sure how this recommendation was drawn from the given information.

Ozone: what tires and sizes are you running F&R, what's your alignment, and list of suspension mods?

Bridgestone Potenza 17's: F 215/40, R 255/40

As for suspension, I don't know. I think the car is a bit lowered. The dealership I got it from didn't know. I tracked down the PO on Prime and he didn't know either (only had it for a short time, and he was 2nd owner). I need to solve this mystery soon.
 
I'm not sure how this recommendation was drawn from the given information.

Ozone: what tires and sizes are you running F&R, what's your alignment, and list of suspension mods?

Agree with Billy. I will say that when I drove my stock NSX home from the dealership (Chicago to Boston), I had a similar issue with excessive tracking of grooves in the road. It was raining very hard and it was very scary to drive. When I took it to the dealership, they found out the rear alignment and toe were completely out of spec. After bringing it back to the factory specifications, it has been a huge jump and now the NSX is a joy to drive. I suspect your suspension and alignment are out of whack. I would suggest taking the car to LarryB (he's in Warwick NY) and getting it "shaken down", if possible for you.

I also strongly recommend the upgraded chassis and sway bars for all targas to nearly eliminate cowl shake and tighten up the front end.
 
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