Collector Car Insurance

[calexand]

I have become concerned recently that should anything happen to my NSX, whether stolen, totaled, etc., my insurance company would end up undervaluing what the car is worth. I would likely get some median bluebook price, not accounting for the excellent condition or the rare color. So I looked into collector car insurance where we would agree on the value of the car ahead. I wanted to share the results with the rest of you.

Chubb Collector Car Insurance had the best rates of all, but they said they would only add a car that new to an existing policy of older cars, not create a policy around such a recent car.

Grundy had the second best rate of the companies I tried, and would have insured my NSX, but they were unwilling to cover me since I occasionally drive it to work and other non-pleasure things. This might be a good option for those of you who only drive your NSXs for fun and events, though.

The third best premium was with Hagerty (the folks with the funny ad on Speed Channel about the guy who won't enter his date's driveway to pick her up, because it isn't paved and he has original paint on his Porsche). While they specifically said they would not cover a daily driver, they were OK with my occasionally driving it to work on nice days (I asked specifically), so long as the miles remained low, and I had other cars and other insurance on them for regular use.

I took the Hagerty policy. In the end, I am paying roughly what I was paying with regular insurance, but with an agreed value on the car ($50K) which reflects what I think I could get for it in a private party sale to someone who wants a rare blue/camel NSX in great condition with a few small improvements, which makes me much more comfortable.

Price: I set high liability limits just in case, but I have a good driving record and live in the suburbs instead of San Francisco itself, and am paying about $1000 a year. It came with coverage for flatbed towing of a short distance as well, should I break down somewhere. (Grundy had been about $735 in my case, for those of you who qualify for them.)

Of course, I have yet to go through a claim, so don't know how that would be. But I hope this is helpful to others anyway.

Chip

 

[nsx1]

Thanks for posting this information. I've been tempted to do the very thing you're talking about. I believe I will do the research as you did. Thanks!

 

[NSXGMS]

I have become concerned recently that should anything happen to my NSX, whether stolen, totaled, etc., my insurance company would end up undervaluing what the car is worth. I would likely get some median bluebook price, not accounting for the excellent condition or the rare color...

Did you confirm with your previous insurance company that book value is the method they use in determining payouts on total losses? I ask because it is extremely atypical for an insurance company to calculate value on a total loss claim based on any kind of book or guide. Standard procedure for determining value in the insurance industry is to pull current comparable sales based on a combination of sold and active public listings such as those found on Ebay, Autotrader, Cars.com, etc.

I'd also be interested to know exactly what methods Hagerty uses for calculating value. I would imagine when claim time comes they're going to use exactly the same comp checks as any other insurance company would to confirm that your car is indeed worth what you say it is. Surely they don't simply take your word for it.

I'm not sure how many miles you have on your 97 but if it is indeed pristine, very well maintained, has around 35K miles or less and is the rarer MC Blue/camel you certainly might be able to get around $50K on the open market if you find the right buyer. The comps should support that price for the most part.

FWIW, I have AAA and pay around $800/year for full coverage on my NSX and I pay more than someone else would with a cleaner record and more experience (although I'm pretty close to perfect--I missed a stop sign right in front of a cop last year...) Their method of calculating value is based on comps, not book/guide value, which is typical of the industry. I don't need to have any other cars insured with them and I can also drive my car whenever and wherever I want and have up to 7,500 miles/year allowance. :wink:

 

[skillz4587]

Did you confirm with your previous insurance company that book value is the method they use in determining payouts on total losses? I ask because it is extremely atypical for an insurance company to calculate value on a total loss claim based on any kind of book or guide.

I contacted my current provider, Gieco a couple of weeks ago and they told me they use book value.

I have been considering getting classic car insurance but just have not really had the time to do the proper research. Thanks Chip, I appreciate the information.

 

[calexand]

Did you confirm with your previous insurance company that book value is the method they use in determining payouts on total losses? I ask because it is extremely atypical for an insurance company to calculate value on a total loss claim based on any kind of book or guide. Standard procedure for determining value in the insurance industry is to pull current comparable sales based on a combination of sold and active public listings such as those found on Ebay, Autotrader, Cars.com, etc.

I'd also be interested to know exactly what methods Hagerty uses for calculating value. I would imagine when claim time comes they're going to use exactly the same comp checks as any other insurance company would to confirm that your car is indeed worth what you say it is. Surely they don't simply take your word for it.

I'm not sure how many miles you have on your 97 but if it is indeed pristine, very well maintained, has around 35K miles or less and is the rarer MC Blue/camel you certainly might be able to get around $50K on the open market if you find the right buyer. The comps should support that price for the most part.

FWIW, I have AAA and pay around $800/year for full coverage on my NSX and I pay more than someone else would with a cleaner record and more experience (although I'm pretty close to perfect--I missed a stop sign right in front of a cop last year...) Their method of calculating value is based on comps, not book/guide value, which is typical of the industry. I don't need to have any other cars insured with them and I can also drive my car whenever and wherever I want and have up to 7,500 miles/year allowance. :wink:

I asked my regular car insurance company to tell me what they thought my NSX was worth, to see if it was worth doing this. My agent tried, and said the company would not say what they would consider the car was worth without my actually having a loss. Not real comforting.

Regarding what Hagerty will consider the car to be worth, it will be the $50,000 agreed value created as part of the policy. They already agreed to that value as part of the terms and wrote it right in the policy, so there is no further discussion needed if it ever comes up.

Last, I am not clear what you meant about having other cars insured with them -- I just have my NSX with them -- but yes I am now more limited in how much I can use the NSX. In fact, if I start driving it a lot more, I will have to call them and see if I am still within the terms, or maybe even go back to regular insurance. But for now, I feel a bit more secure.

Chip

 

[calexand]

Thanks for posting this information. I've been tempted to do the very thing you're talking about. I believe I will do the research as you did. Thanks!

No problem. Glad it's useful. If any of you find something better for agreed-value coverage, I would appreciate if you would drop me a note and tell me (just use the links on my name in this thread to PM or email me so I can't miss it please). You may want to post to this thread for others too -- up to you.

Chip

 

[TyraNSX]

Chip:

So you have liability, comprehensive, & collision with them? Or just comp & collision? Any idea how harshly they look at tickets? How often & to what extent are you allowed to revise the agreed value (either up or down, I'm more worried about up)? I have been thinking of doing this for a while because I get the distinct impression that if anything were to happen, I would lose at least $10K because they have no idea what the car is worth & how rare & desirable it is (at least in the NSX community).

How do they know if you were do drive it to work? And how could any owner fire up their crystal ball & know that? For example, I've driven mine to work once so I could run it by the insurance agent at lunch to prove it was in good shape prior to writing the policy. I almost drove it to work when I had a nail in my tire on my Corolla XRS a few weeks back so I could drop that wheel off, but ended up putting the dough nut spare on the Corolla & dropping the wheel off in that. No one can plan or predict the future & sometimes circumstance dictate driving the "baby" to work.

I have posted on this before, but one of these companies won't let you drop coverage for the winter & put it back on in the spring, you have to wait a year. Not a problem for you & not a problem for me now that I've moved down here, but a problem for guys in the craptacular north.

Thanks for putting this idea & info out there.

Tony

 

[tom4416]

I've had classic car insurance for years on everything from a 64 Corvair Spyder to special edition Miatas and now the NSX. There are a couple of things that people need to aware of on these declared value policies. Not that they are bad, they aren't, but aren't quite what they seem either.

Most companies require that the car be stored on your property in a locked garage. This almost completely eliminates theft as a loss category unless you spend a lot of time in public parking lots but with their mileage limits, not likely because it will be a weekend joyride or show car.

They are also counting on you not destroying the car in a single vehicle accident which is why they are so concerned about driving records and tend to like "older" drivers. If you wrap the car around a tree and total it, then their agreed upon value comes into play (or in a theft situation).

They are anticipating that any accident you may be involved in will be the other drivers fault since you are going to be extremely careful driving your classic car. If that's the case in a non no fault state, then it's the other drivers insurance company you are dealing with.

Finally, since the declared value is $50,000, they get to set the total limit much higher. Let's say you've suffered $30,000 in an accident that was your fault. Based on book value, that car would have been totaled and a check for about $38,000 written (assuming a low mileage 97 example). However, they can force you to repair the car for $30,000, saving them $8,000. However, most of us are not going to want an NSX with $30,000 worth of repairs and it would be extremely hard to sell now. So, you take the $30,000 and part out what's left of the car. Now, if the car was totaled beyond repair (or at least the estimate is above the declared value), you'll get the $50K payout.

The savings are significant enough that it's the route I go but know they aren't necessarily going to stroke me a check for $40,000 just because that's the declared value.

BTW, if you are one of those people that fudge the selling price with the DMV to save tax money, it can come back to bite you on the butt when trying to determine the actual value of the car. If you paid tax on $10K when you registered it and then try to file a declared value claim of $40K, you're going to have a problem because they will pull that DMV info to claim the value was falsified.

Just read the fine print and ask the right questions before assuming it's the best policy for you and your driving habits. If it is, significant savings can be had. All this information came from long discussions with my regular car agent from Allstate (who strongly recommended the classic car insurance route) as well as the underwriters for Sneed Insurance.

 

[calexand]

Chip:

So you have liability, comprehensive, & collision with them? Or just comp & collision?

Full coverage, with $500K Liability, just in case.

Any idea how harshly they look at tickets? How often & to what extent are you allowed to revise the agreed value (either up or down, I'm more worried about up)?

I don't know either of those things. But regarding tickets, I could always put the car back on my regular policy if I got a ticket, couldn't just go to traffic school, and it made the rate unattractive. Moreover, their best rating was for 0-1 points, so that even leaves me one free point.

How do they know if you were do drive it to work? And how could any owner fire up their crystal ball & know that?

Mostly from my telling them, since I want to be honest about how I will use the car. But like any time one would be dishonest, it also could come back to bite you if things didn't go as expected. For example, if I drove to work, and someone did a hit and run on the car at work, it might be hard to explain why it was there. ;-)

As far as knowing how you will use it, I just estimated based on how I have been using it. I wouldn't think weird exceptions would break that too much, but could be more problematic for coverage like Grundy that was more strict about usage.

Chip

 

[calexand]

...since the declared value is $50,000, they get to set the total limit much higher. Let's say you've suffered $30,000 in an accident that was your fault. Based on book value, that car would have been totaled and a check for about $38,000 written (assuming a low mileage 97 example). However, they can force you to repair the car for $30,000, saving them $8,000. However, most of us are not going to want an NSX with $30,000 worth of repairs and it would be extremely hard to sell now. So, you take the $30,000 and part out what's left of the car. Now, if the car was totaled beyond repair (or at least the estimate is above the declared value), you'll get the $50K payout.

Really interesting point. Thanks. But it seems like there's a small window between when the car would be totaled based on book value and when it would be totaled based on my agreed value, so I think it is worth that chance.

I'll just checked into Sneed Insurance -- a company which I hadn't heard of before -- per your posting, and their premium was fantastic ($377/year!). But that was for leisure use only. However, the site mentioned that I can purchase an option to allow driving the car to work up to 2 times a week, so I will be calling them Monday about that.

Have you been happy with them, Tom? I may be calling Hagarty and checking about prorated refunds to switch if so. At the least, this is another good option for you other NSX owners, as this was by far the best premium I have seen yet.

Chip

 

[TyraNSX]

Just tried online quotes with Hagerty- won't take a '99. Grundy- won't take anything less than 25 yrs old, Sneed- $1037 for $61K value. OUCH!!! That's way more than I pay Geico now.

 

[tom4416]

Have you been happy with them, Tom? I may be calling Hagarty and checking about prorated refunds to switch if so. At the least, this is another good option for you other NSX owners, as this was by far the best premium I have seen yet.

Chip

Very and they were the ones who took the time to explain the whole stated value concept. Their rates always tend to be better for "mature" drivers with a clean record. My NSX with a stated value of 40K and way higher than normal liability limits (500K because that is required by my umbrella policy with another company), 500 deduct, runs $460 a year but it also lowers my premium on other cars I have with them. They charge the full rate for the most valuable and then apply a multiple car discount to subsequent cars.

 

[calexand]

Just tried online quotes with Hagerty- won't take a '99. Grundy- won't take anything less than 25 yrs old, Sneed- $1037 for $61K value. OUCH!!! That's way more than I pay Geico now.

That doesn't sound right regarding Grundy. I was able to get a quote online (just did it again in fact to check nothing had changed), and even formally apply, but they rejected me later due to my stated usage. My NSX sure isn't 25 years old!

Odd that Hagerty will take a 97 and not a 99, but maybe its because of the magic 10-year-old mark between us. Also amazing that your Sneed quote is three times what mine was for just 20% higher agreed value, but maybe it is a difference in where we live or our ages or something.

Chip

 

[NSXGMS]

I contacted my current provider, Gieco a couple of weeks ago and they told me they use book value.

If you have an NSX or any other low-production vehicle I would drop Geico like a hot potato. NSX book values are notoriously low since too few move in auction to get an accurate market value. Book value for a 1991 NSX might be as low as $19K depending on which book used.

KBB has recently updated their numbers (thanks in part to Prime member Patricio's diligent letter writing campaign) and now actually reflects a fairly accurate range for 1991 NSXs (24-26K) for an average mileage NSX. However NADA lists average retail price at around $25K which means private party value is well below that, which is too low. And Edmunds lists a 1991 NSX with average mileage at about $13K for private party and about $17K for retail!

If one has a low-production or more rare vehicle I would strongly suggest getting an insurance company that calculates value based on the market. I would not want to be getting a $13K check in the mail from my insurance company if my NSX were totaled.

FWIW AAA blew Geico away in premium and I have not heard great things about Geico claims. AAA is top notch with actual branches everywhere.

 

[NSXGMS]

I asked my regular car insurance company to tell me what they thought my NSX was worth, to see if it was worth doing this. My agent tried, and said the company would not say what they would consider the car was worth without my actually having a loss. Not real comforting.

I'm not surprised by this. Your agent isn't the one who analyzes comps and can't speak to the methods the analysts use. It's subjective analysis, to be sure, but as long as they confirm the use of the market as their guide I'd feel fine. Also, if you're not happy with the figures market analysis can be appealed. Rote book value cannot be.

Regarding what Hagerty will consider the car to be worth, it will be the $50,000 agreed value created as part of the policy. They already agreed to that value as part of the terms and wrote it right in the policy, so there is no further discussion needed if it ever comes up.

Interesting. Apparently they do take your word for it to some extent. I'd think the amount of payout would certainly be factored into the premium in this case.

Last, I am not clear what you meant about having other cars insured with them -- I just have my NSX with them...

Got it. This statement threw me off :smile::

...and I had other cars and other insurance on them for regular use...

 

[calexand]

Update: Sneed had fantastic rates for me and where I live, but only allows driving the car for pleasure. They have an additional coverage in some states which allows driving to work up to twice a week, but not in California (yet at least).

Chip

 

[TyraNSX]

Called Hagerty today. I was on the edge of being covered since the car is 10 model years old & almost 10 calender years old (ie- a little too new but they would do it). 100/300 liability, $500 deductible on comp & collision, valued at $61K---> $1252/yr (includes my 2 tickets).

They had a book for exotics & had it valued at $54K for the Zanardi. Told him I was pretty sure they were low since KGP sold #13 for that much almost 2 yrs ago in a day, which to me says it could have gone for a few K more easily.

Also, based on recent finds on here, there are a good 6-8 cars that are beat to piss or have had iffy body work & the one in VA on ebay with the salvage title theft recovery that may or may not have sat open in FL for a while. #20 got totaled, one car is totally MIA so I figure there are probably ~40-42 Zanardis left that are in good shape & desirable.

Will try Grundy tmrw & retry Sneed over the phone sometime to see if it will drop some.

 

[The Kid]

Called Hagerty today. I was on the edge of being covered since the car is 10 model years old & almost 10 calender years old (ie- a little too new but they would do it). 100/300 liability, $500 deductible on comp & collision, valued at $61K---> $1252/yr (includes my 2 tickets).

They had a book for exotics & had it valued at $54K for the Zanardi. Told him I was pretty sure they were low since KGP sold #13 for that much almost 2 yrs ago in a day, which to me says it could have gone for a few K more easily.

Also, based on recent finds on here, there are a good 6-8 cars that are beat to piss or have had iffy body work & the one in VA on ebay with the salvage title theft recovery that may or may not have sat open in FL for a while. #20 got totaled, one car is totally MIA so I figure there are probably ~40-42 Zanardis left that are in good shape & desirable.

Will try Grundy tmrw & retry Sneed over the phone sometime to see if it will drop some.

My Zanardi is $1800 year for NJM and my 92 is $1400, Im 28yr, unmarried:biggrin:and have a clean record. :wink:

 

[Big_D]

I went with Haggerty because I wanted a stated value of my choosing. I added the cost of the mods that I installed and made sure the stated value covers it all. It also covers me on parade laps :smile:.

 

[MJK]

I just switched from Grundy to Amica. The daily was already with Amica.

Either way the NSX was about $600 a year. Grundy was stated value with driving restrictions. Amica has neither. Coverage otherwise was comparable.

32, unmarried & clean record (for now).

 

[TyraNSX]

Called AAA today, a policy thru them with Travelers would be cheaper than Geico & would go with actual cash value if it was totaled. Not sure it's worth the savings for the inaccurate, low book value.

 

[NSXGMS]

Called AAA today, a policy thru them with Travelers would be cheaper than Geico & would go with actual cash value if it was totaled. Not sure it's worth the savings for the inaccurate, low book value.

I just spoke with AAA and while they do use the unfortunate term "Actual Cash Value" after pressing it with the agents I spoke with they admitted they do in fact use market comps and only use the book value as one source of info. KBB was specifically singled out. Since they do use comps and since KBB's value of the NSX has become more accurate recently I feel confident that I'll get actual market value for my NSX from AAA.

 

[troca]

FWIW, I just TALKED with Sneed and they say they are not able to insure an NSX. They said that the quote engine will kick out a price for a number of cars that they, in fact, do not insure and often have people calling up and then have to tell them that they "do not have the guidelines from their underwriter to handle that vehicle". I asked them how they could insure a Corvette and not an NSX and the reply was that they didn't know, only the underwriter makes those decisions regarding what types of cars to insure. They do specifically state that they don't insure "sports cars". I always knew that a 'Vette wasn't a sports car .

 

[tom4416]

FWIW, I just TALKED with Sneed and they say they are not able to insure an NSX. They said that the quote engine will kick out a price for a number of cars that they, in fact, do not insure and often have people calling up and then have to tell them that they "do not have the guidelines from their underwriter to handle that vehicle". I asked them how they could insure a Corvette and not an NSX and the reply was that they didn't know, only the underwriter makes those decisions regarding what types of cars to insure. They do specifically state that they don't insure "sports cars". I always knew that a 'Vette wasn't a sports car .

Talk to Linda Crawford there. I've got two old special edition Miatas and the NSX with them. If they aren't the definition of sportscars, don't know what is. Now, they may have a more narrow criteria for the NSX as to geographic coverage, driver age and record, etc.. And, AFAIK, all their classic/exotic car insurance requires that the car be store in a locked garage when on your property, mileage and usage limitations, can't be your DD, etc.. Maybe if some of those requirements aren't met, they won't pick it up but I know mine's paid up for the next year with my policy in hand the NSX clearly identified.

 

[troca]

Interesting, I'll do that. Nothing my record to cause a problem, we didn't even get that far. I have other collector stuff, garage, no accidents/tickets etc. Used Condon and Skelly/JCTaylor for years, but NSX is too new. I'll check again and see what they say. Thanks.