Coilover vs Lowering springs

[BLKDMD]

Hello,

Why should I spend $2000 or more for coilovers instead of purchasing lowering springs. Obviously you can change height with CO but How often are you really going to be changing the height of your car when you have to go thru a camber adj each time.

There maybe something I missing so I thought no better place to ask!

 

[CL65 Captain]

Springs and shocks work together. If you are just looking to lower and not better handling... lowering springs are the way to go. However, for example I am running the Comptech Pro coilovers which are Koni 3012 racing dampers combined with 1000 lbs springs front and 600 lbs rear. On the track, for the first I can keep up with the Porsche GT3s. The shocks and springs work together, stiffer shocks and stiffer springs. Zero body roll and zero brake dive. Lowering springs are only going to give you ride hight adjustment, coilovers are adjustable... not that you change it often but you can get the exact hight you want. Also you can corner balance the car. Think of the car as a chair with four legs. If the chairs doesn't have legs that are exactly the same length than it wobbles. Corner balancing makes all the weight on each tire equal so the car doesn't wobble so to speak.

 

[OzzieJohn]

Lowering springs put extra strain on your shock absorbers, causing them to wear out more rapidly. Also, shorter springs are likely to be stiffer to prevent bottoming out, whilst your OEM shocks are designed to work perfectly in tandem with softer OEM springs - resulting in not enough damping, and a bouncy ride right from the start.

Coilovers let you adjust the ride height to get it exactly as you want it, and also let you adjust the damping force to suit your roads and driving style. Also, they may well shave some weight from your suspension.

Of the 3 cars I drive reguarly, 2 have lowering springs, 1 has coilovers - there is no comparison at all. My 2c, go the coilovers.... you get the look you want whilst improving the handling (rather than compromising it).

Edit: What CL65 Said

 

[BLKDMD]

Thanks so much!!

When I was driving the lude lowering springs were great. I think I would like to keep the performance level on par with the expensive machine that I purchased. But I would like to purchase a package because my knowledge of suspension is limited.

I looked on the sos site and the best "bang for the buck" at the level of performance that I would ever need or desire seemed to be the jic sos coilovers, any coments on these or other packages that you would reccomend?

Many thanks

 

[blodi]

Another route to take is using Bilstien shocks with the OEM springs on the lower perch. This is what I am planning on doing. It will lower the car approx. 1" and keeps the stock ride from what I understand. Maybe someone else can chime in on these who has them already. No blowing out the stock shocks and also a lot cheaper than coilovers.
Good for me since I only really drive my car on the street and will give me the lowering I need for the rough Detroit roads.

 

[NSXGMS]

Hello,

Why should I spend $2000 or more for coilovers instead of purchasing lowering springs. Obviously you can change height with CO but How often are you really going to be changing the height of your car when you have to go thru a camber adj each time.

There maybe something I missing so I thought no better place to ask!

If you're happy with the OEM feel/performance of the car then stick with Bilstein shocks and retain your OEM springs. There's no reason to change your OEM springs whatsoever unless you desire a stiffer ride for performance driving. The OEM springs are excellent quality and don't "sag" as rumored.

Simply use the lower perch of the Bilsteins which will drop the car ~0.875" from stock height. The Bilsteins are an excellent, less expensive alternative to the OEM shock and come with a lifetime warranty.

If you would like to slightly improve performance without sacrificing comfort and are willing to spend a little more I recommend the Dali progressive rate springs. Feels very comfy during normal driving but stiffen up nicely during spirited driving. A great match to the Bilstein shocks but the Dali springs alone will drop the car by ~1.25". If the ~0.875" drop you get from the Bilsteins on the lower perch isn't enough then the Dali springs are an excellent choice and allows you to maintain the high Bilstein perch.

If it's a drop and substantially increased performance you're looking for there are two options IMO:

1) The Zanardi springs on custom-valved Konis or Bilsteins or OEM Zanardi shocks. The Zanardi shocks are expensive--custom valving on Konis or Bilsteins is probably cheaper. You could use out-of-the-box Bilsteins or Konis but they will not last long under the stress of the Zanardi springs. They will dampen the Zanardi springs effectively but you might only get half the life from them you normally would. They are under warranty forever but replacing them/realigning the car often can be a PITA. Wiser to spend more money on a custom-valved shock now and have it last longer, IMO.

or 2) Coilovers of which there are many options.

Unless you heavily track the car the Zanardi suspension is about as aggressive as you'll ever need and I highly recommend it. The Zanardi springs drop the car about 0.5" and using the custom valved Bilsteins on the lower perch will get you another ~0.875" for a total of ~1.375".

FYI: I would not exceed 1.5" for total drop if you would like to keep from scraping the front lip on public roads. As for going even lower, approaching a 2.0"+ drop may begin to exceed the alignment's limits.

 

[BLKDMD]

1.5" is about what I would like to lower the car, but only time will tell if this ends up not being enough over time.
The zanardi springs interest me , but with my limited knowledge im not familiar with custom valved dampners. Is this something that is special made or are you just refering to adjustable dampners. If they are "Special Made" what would I be looking for?

 

[02#154]

You could use out-of-the-box Bilsteins or Konis but they will not last long under the stress of the Zanardi springs. They will dampen the Zanardi springs effectively but you might only get half the life from them you normally would.

I hope this doesn't take the thread too far off topic; at any rate, it should prove useful to the OP, though not directly related.

I've only ever heard of re-valving dampers to properly match the spring (rate)s for which they'd be used, not to increase their longevity. I'm unsure how the valving can do this, especially if going with stiffer springs since the "work" the damper has to do diminishes as the spring rate goes up. My understanding is that longevity is compromised due to the damper constantly having to work at one end of its stroke length instead of near the middle, meaning that it's the fact that it's working with shorter springs, not because the springs are stiffer. Can you elaborate on this, please? Perhaps my understanding is incorrect, but I'd like to hear why you say what you did before I start changing my thinking.

J

 

[NSXGMS]

1.5" is about what I would like to lower the car, but only time will tell if this ends up not being enough over time.
The zanardi springs interest me , but with my limited knowledge im not familiar with custom valved dampners. Is this something that is special made or are you just refering to adjustable dampners. If they are "Special Made" what would I be looking for?

You can simply call Bilstein or Koni, give them the spring rate information and they will custom valve the shocks for you to match the springs. The Bilsteins on the lower perch plus the Zanardi springs will give you a drop of ~1.375". Expect the ride to be significantly firmer than OEM but performance to be significantly greater.

I've never heard anyone complain about the firmness of the Zanardi suspension as I have regarding the Type-R, so it seems very livable for daily driving.

The Zanardi shocks sell for about $900/set of 4. You should be able to get custom valved Bilsteins or Konis for a few hundred less and with a lifetime warranty.

 

[NSXGMS]

I hope this doesn't take the thread too far off topic; at any rate, it should prove useful to the OP, though not directly related.

I've only ever heard of re-valving dampers to properly match the spring (rate)s for which they'd be used, not to increase their longevity. I'm unsure how the valving can do this, especially if going with stiffer springs since the "work" the damper has to do diminishes as the spring rate goes up. My understanding is that longevity is compromised due to the damper constantly having to work at one end of its stroke length instead of near the middle, meaning that it's the fact that it's working with shorter springs, not because the springs are stiffer. Can you elaborate on this, please? Perhaps my understanding is incorrect, but I'd like to hear why you say what you did before I start changing my thinking.

J

You are correct and I am assuming a bit. True, the shock is going to do less work the higher the spring rate but only if the shock is valved to that spring. If the shock is question is valved to dampen an OEM spring and a Type-R spring is installed the shock is going to be damping more and more often. Since a shock only has a finite amount of damping until it dies I suppose I am logically thinking it will simply die sooner under increased frequency and amount of damping.

I should not have made the statement as if it were gospel. It might or might not be true that a under-valved shock will die sooner.

True, the main purpose for damping is to simply properly match the damping rate to the spring rate to provide the most effective combination.

 

[enkrypt3d]

I'm considering the same thing here. I want to lower my car and give it better handling...

Coilovers replace the shocks and springs correct?

I have been dreaming of getting these for the longest time:

http://scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/TEIN/

With the EDFC of course! :biggrin:

Another question is - since I never track my car, and want to keep the ride quality for street use (and for my GF's comfort), which would be the best?

Type Flex or Type Mono Flex?

Hopefully soon I will get my wish!

thx
-enkrypt3d

 

[NSXGMS]

I'm considering the same thing here. I want to lower my car and give it better handling...

Coilovers replace the shocks and springs correct?

I have been dreaming of getting these for the longest time:

http://scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/TEIN/

With the EDFC of course! :biggrin:

Another question is - since I never track my car, and want to keep the ride quality for street use (and for my GF's comfort), which would be the best?

Type Flex or Type Mono Flex?

Hopefully soon I will get my wish!

thx
-enkrypt3d

If you want to retain the stock suspension feel I've always felt coilovers are not the best choice, even on the softest settings. It's certainly not the most cost-effective solution.

Unfortunately there are very few options which increase performance while retaining the stock feel. The Dali springs on Bilsteins or OEM springs are the closest to stock feel IMO and do provide improved handling while lowering ~1.25".

If you never track the car I, for one, really don't think anyone needs coilovers. The Zanardi setup offers about the most performance one will ever need for the street and the Dali springs are great for the street.

But, if you want coilovers, get coilovers. The Tein & JIC setups offered by SOS are very good. To each his own, I suppose.

 

[STB10-7]

I thinking of lowering my car, so far i'm leaning toward coilovers.

my reason is that as you look above there are all sorts of combinations you can have, this spring with that shock will give you this drop...

I got to think what will look good in my car. do i want a 1", 1/2", or 2" whatever.

once you get the combo you want your stuck with it, hopefully you get the drop you want.

i bet more than offen it's you think "just a little bit lower would be good (or a little bit higher). Alot like breast implants, women often say after the surgery "i should've gone bigger".:biggrin:

for this reason i decided to get coilovers....which ones i don't know yet.

 

[enkrypt3d]

If you want to retain the stock suspension feel I've always felt coilovers are not the best choice, even on the softest settings. It's certainly not the most cost-effective solution.

Unfortunately there are very few options which increase performance while retaining the stock feel. The Dali springs on Bilsteins or OEM springs are the closest to stock feel IMO and do provide improved handling while lowering ~1.25".

If you never track the car I, for one, really don't think anyone needs coilovers. The Zanardi setup offers about the most performance one will ever need for the street and the Dali springs are great for the street.

But, if you want coilovers, get coilovers. The Tein & JIC setups offered by SOS are very good. To each his own, I suppose.

Well my ride is pretty damn harsh as it is....... im thinking thats mainly b/c of the worn out stock shocks.... so I am kind of used to the stiff ride... I dont mind the ride to be stiff as long as its not harsh...

And im dying to have the look of a slammed NSX... just so damn hot!

I think the best option might be the first option on SOS's site:

http://scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/TEIN/

So yea of course there are going to be some sacrifices when lowering the car... I plan on putting on some stiff ass swaybars as well.. so yea Thx for the input

 

[CLEANSX]

Just get some used H&R w/alignment & you'll love it! Then when you save up go coilover!

 

[NSXGMS]

Just get some used H&R w/alignment & you'll love it! Then when you save up go coilover!

I would not put H&R springs over stock shocks, let alone worn stock shocks. The spring rates are about 25-30% greater than OEM. Get Bilsteins or Konis for those.

They also drop ~1.50" which is a lot. Make sure you want to go that low.

 

[adriannsx]

anyone gone with the D2 coilovers? They are 800 bucks! and are fully adjustable coilovers. I am thinking about it about but dont knwo what settings to get for the springs. I daily my NSX and do some track from time to time. Much cheaper solution....

Adrian

 

[fourringpilot]

What size wheels/tires do you have on now or plan on installing with the lowered look? I ask because a 18 35 225 tire will have significant rub in the front when car is lowered and you are cornering or driving hard. You must consider tire size when dropping a vehicle. If you are into mods you will probably change wheels/tires like people change shoes. Coilovers will give you the greatest flexability with tire sizes. If you decide to sell coilovers they will be quickly purchased by me or other prime members. This makes them a solid investment for any future show car or track car application. Just like shoes not all springs are the same quality or function.

 

[NSXGMS]

What size wheels/tires do you have on now or plan on installing with the lowered look? I ask because a 18 35 225 tire will have significant rub in the front when car is lowered and you are cornering or driving hard. You must consider tire size when dropping a vehicle. If you are into mods you will probably change wheels/tires like people change shoes. Coilovers will give you the greatest flexability with tire sizes. If you decide to sell coilovers they will be quickly purchased by me or other prime members. This makes them a solid investment for any future show car or track car application. Just like shoes not all springs are the same quality or function.

I don't recall him stating his wheels weren't stock size...

18" front wheels are not common in my experience. The vast majority upgrade to a 17 F/18 R and that is as large as I would go on the NSX. You are correct however--an 18" front wheel with a tire wider than 215mm is probably going to cause rubbing at full lock--lowered car or not. With a lowered NSX expect a lot more rubbing.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

1.5" is about what I would like to lower the car, but only time will tell if this ends up not being enough over time.
The zanardi springs interest me , but with my limited knowledge im not familiar with custom valved dampners. Is this something that is special made or are you just refering to adjustable dampners. If they are "Special Made" what would I be looking for?

If your not planning on driving your car to its limits keep the factory shocks and get the H & R springs which yeild 1.5 inch drop and are 25-30% stiffer over factory. This basic setup will be more than enough for street driving.

Zanardi springs will give you .5 inch drop. If you plan on racing then the Type R package is what i recommend. Keeping a car within OEM spec or parts IMO helps retain the value/appeal of the car.

 

[NSXGMS]

If your not planning on driving your car to its limits keep the factory shocks and get the H & R springs which yeild 1.5 inch drop and are 25-30% stiffer over factory. This basic setup will be more than enough for street driving.

Zanardi springs will give you .5 inch drop. If you plan on racing then the Type R package is what i recommend. Keeping a car within OEM spec or parts IMO helps retain the value/appeal of the car.

As I stated I would absolutely not recommend H & R springs over stock shocks. The spring rate exceeds the shocks' pre-set dampening ability. Performance will probably decrease and your shocks will wear out more quickly.

If you want stiffer springs I strongly suggest upgrading to a shock that is designed to handle those rates like the Bilstein or Koni.

Also, the ride with H & R and Bilsteins/Konis will be significantly harsher. If you'd like to increase performance, drop the car and retain the stock ride feel I recommend the Dali progressive spring/Bilstein shock combo. The Dali springs alone drop ~1.25".

 

[BLKDMD]

I have an 03 with stock 17" . Recently installed a cantrell front spolier and already took a chip off of it without it even getting painted yet (minor). I dont care though i didnt get the car to sit in the garage and it needs to be lowered.:biggrin: Jic coilover is what I have ordered, it was close between the nsx-r set up and jic but the price and ability to adjust height put it over the top. After its installed Ill post some pics thanks for all the input!

 

[ATERPAK]

Well I won't go into all the details but after many years of changing over to Eibach then H&R along with the Koni's, and autocrossing, and track schooling, I finally decided to bite the bullet and went with K&W V3 coil-overs. The settings they recommended were almost full hard on the bump and a little over half on the rebound so I decided I would try it the other way. I went for around 1-1/5 clicks on the bump and 4-5 clicks on the rebound since most of my driving is on the street. First thing I noticed the car rode much nicer. Almost stock like but with more control. I then had an opportunity to to a little track driving from a teen-driving clinic I volunteered for at Thunderhill. Didn't really expect to be doing any driving that day but all of a sudden they told the instructors to get in their cars so we could take a student out at around a 75% pace to show them how a car can handle at speed in all types of terrain. Now please remember they gave us no notice on this so my car had the safety spare in, my helmet bag and loaded back pack in the trunk so I wasn't at my lightest weight.

Well I could see an immediate difference on my first lap. Everything was much smoother and the car seemed more planted. I found that I was going faster and faster on my streetF1 Goodyear tires. They just seemed to grip everywhere on the track and the car's composure was much more predictable. Even with a passenger (up to 200 lbs.) the car handled extremely well without any funny changes in direction. I've become a total believer in going it this way if you are going to track the car a lot or want to tune it the right way. I know it's pricier but if I had a chance to drive the Comptech Pro setup I might of gone this way much sooner. Pricey but worth it. :biggrin:

 

[enkrypt3d]

I've had my KW V3's on my car for a few months now and the car has totally settled... I have the rebound set to 10 from full stiff all around... its comfortable but when I hit sharp bumps, its definitely jarring ... is this related to the compression settings? (for fast/sharp bumps its harsh but for slow bumps its soft).... thx

 

[sca037]

OK, since this thread has been bumped from 3+ years ago I'll chime in ;^D

For a street car, Ryan (blodi) has it right.....get the Bilsteins and install the original springs on the lower perch like we have on our stock NSX and call it a day.
For a mixed use / track car, the KW V3's we have on the turbo rock and have quite the range for whatever use you might have in mind.

Brian