Civic SI has better aerodynamics than NSX??

[Joshs]

I was reading the October issue of Wired on the plane back from Costa Rica, and there was a one page featurette on the new Civic SI. It talks about how Honda is trying to get some market share back from the Corolla and Scion modder market. They go into ways to soup up the SI, talking about Engine, I/E, Transmission, Aerodynamics, Suspension, and Wheel upgrades.

Here's what it said under Aerodynamics:

---------
4) Aerodynamics
COMES WITH: A sharply angled windshield that improves drag (it beats Honda's 90K Acura NSX). The front spoiler directs air to cool the disc brakes.
MODDER UPGRADE: More style - Honda's got the aerodynamics nailed. Jack up the flight aesthetic with Lamborghini-style doors by Vertical. They work with the existing frames, no welding or cutting required. Installation while you wait!
---------

So my question is, does this imply that the just the SI's windshield has relatively less drag, or that the SI itself has a better aerodynamic profile than the NSX? It seems to me that it implies the latter. Considering the NSX was designed in the 80's, I suppose it's understandable that a more modern design could be better, but the 'old' nsx design sure does look like it'd be better aerodynamically. Aerodynamics is complicated though, so looks can be deceiving!

link to full article: http://wired-vig.wired.com/wired/archive/13.10/play.html?pg=12

-Josh

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I stopped at a local dealer the other night and looked at one of the 2drs they had on the lot. It wasn't an Si since they aren't out yet.
I was shocked at how big the windshield was and how small the hood is. It reminds me of the 'cab forward' design of the Chrysler products.

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

I wanna know more about your trip to costa rico..... :biggrin:

 

[NSX-Racer]

Just a remark: An improved drag doesn't necessarily mean better aerodynamics. The NSX needs less upforce moments than the Civic due to high speed stability. More downforce is usualy leading to more drag (unless you do that with some kind of ground effects like Ferrari tried). Race cars have very high drag (or cw due to a lot of downforce) but that doesn't mean they have bad aerodynamics, right?

 

[heathbar0]

1 aerodynamicly challenged NSX for sale.
Want to buy a 06 Civic Si :biggrin:
JK
I think 15 years is long enough for Honda to come up with better aerodynamics.
Lambroghini doors on a civic

 

[skynet0419]

I think the fact that the best mod that they can suggest is Lamborghini Doors shows the intelligence of whoever wrote the article is questionable

 

[redshift]

Interesting, although I still like my drag challenged NSX better. The Lambo doors mod is just a bad idea on the Civic (unless it's for show). I do like the Si though, I'd consider the 4-door version as a daily driver; though I'll probably go with a TL.

Back to the aerodynamics question...

 

[khappucino]

haha well the new SI might have a lower Coefficient of Drag than the nsx, (alot of cars actually do have lower Cd) BUT you still have to multiply that by frontal surface area which i believe is still alot bigger than the nsx front profile =o

 

[Joshs]

I wanna know more about your trip to costa rico..... :biggrin:

I had a fabulous time and would certainly recommend the trip to others!

I'm working on putting together the 700 pictures from the trip, so since you asked I'll post a thread in OT once they're ready.

Just a remark: An improved drag doesn't necessarily mean better aerodynamics. The NSX needs less upforce moments than the Civic due to high speed stability. More downforce is usualy leading to more drag (unless you do that with some kind of ground effects like Ferrari tried). Race cars have very high drag (or cw due to a lot of downforce) but that doesn't mean they have bad aerodynamics, right?

Good point on seperating drag from aerodynamics, as drag is just one part of the overal aerodynamic performance. Since the two vehicles would have different operating speed ranges, and thus different drag requirements for optimum performance (however you measure 'performance'), it does seem a bit out of place to say the SI has 'better' drag than the NSX.

I think the fact that the best mod that they can suggest is Lamborghini Doors shows the intelligence of whoever wrote the article is questionable

The author seemed to think that it would be hard/impossible to improve on the SI's aero setup. Without serious development, likely requiring access to a windtunnel for testing/verification, this is probably true - but I find it hard to believe that you couldn't improve upon it. I agree that the lambo door suggestion is kinda silly, especially since it has nothing to do with aerodynamics. For the record, the author's name is Brian Lam.

haha well the new SI might have a lower Coefficient of Drag than the nsx, (alot of cars actually do have lower Cd) BUT you still have to multiply that by frontal surface area which i believe is still alot bigger than the nsx front profile =o

I would assume that the 'drag' referred to in the article would include any spatial considerations applied to the coefficient, yielding an overal drag value (measured in Newtons?). It would seem that mentioning relative coefficients without factoring in size would not mean much. Then again, the article really just doesn't have enough information to determine what exactly he's talking about, so your guess is as good as mine

Here's a link to the actual article on Wired.com, complete with pix:
http://wired-vig.wired.com/wired/archive/13.10/play.html?pg=12

-Josh

 

[splitz]

It doesn't matter what the drag on the Si will be, Ricers will buy crazy body kits that serve no purpose and look ugly.

 

[khappucino]

perhaps they were calculating drag when the car's going sideways (a la drift')
lol but yeah usually in most magazines aren't so precise and usually only quote the Cd. actually as a thought, i wonder how the effective drag changes as a function car angle (i.e head one vs 45 degree change vs 180 degree etc)
i bet some cars that have wonderful frontal drag might have some big jumps in effective drag with small angle, bleh =) just a thought

 

[Shumdit]

I had read the Civic Coupes windshield was more severely raked than the NSX, but that does not translate to more aerodynamic automatically.

 

[Jetpilot2112]

Josh is correct...

As a pilot, I can tell you that aerodynamics is a simple, yet complicated issue; The operating speed ranges of the NSX and the Civic are like apples and oranges. Remember, as speed increases, drag increases as a square. (At 120mph, you have twice the speed of 60mph, but 4 times the drag.)
So, it would stand to reason that perhaps (giving Civic the benefit of the doubt here) the Civic could have better low speed drag numbers, but I'm willing to bet that, at the higher speeds, the NSX's numbers would put it to shame.

Good point on seperating drag from aerodynamics, as drag is just one part of the overal aerodynamic performance. Since the two vehicles would have different operating speed ranges, and thus different drag requirements for optimum performance (however you measure 'performance'), it does seem a bit out of place to say the SI has 'better' drag than the NSX.



-Josh

 

[jalnjr]

drag is a relative term

having to own/drive a civic would be a greater drag [ in the long run ]
than owning/driving an nsx... $0.02 :wink:

 

[Patdeisa]

What they're probably talking about is the Coeffiecient of Drag (Cd). 1991-2001 NSX's have a Cd of 0.32. 2002+ NSX's have a Cd of 0.30. Since they only mentioned a '90s NSX, that probably means the Cd of the new Civic Si is 0.30-0.31, which is pretty good, but not abnormal for a car (the insight has a Cd of 0.25, and the new Civic hybrid has a Cd of 0.26 [not sure, but what I found on-line so far]). What this means is that it has less drag per surface area than an older NSX. What it does not mean is that it has less drag, because the frontal area of the NSX is likely a bit smaller, thus less drag.

 

[brahtw8]

I had read the Civic Coupes windshield was more severely raked than the NSX, but that does not translate to more aerodynamic automatically.

This is my understanding as well. The only thing the article is saying is that the windshield of the Si is steeper than than the NSX.