Christmas puppy dilemma

Joined
22 January 2003
Messages
151
Location
Seattle
My daughter was given a 6 mo. old Siberan Husky for Christmas. I thought it would be a "good" thing. We have an aging (13 yr.old) Husky and my thinking was that a puppy would make the older dogs remaining days more enjoyable and the transition easier to deal with when he does pass.

Now we all know that puppies are naughty little creatures that might chew up your favorite slippers. But the trail of destruction from this animal is beginning to be quite costly. On top of the $500.00 in initial expense there has been an expensive dining room table and chairs used as chew toys, siding on a new garage addition, patio furniture, garden hoses and extension cords, and numerous items my daughter "forgot", essentially ANYTHING that might normally be left outside. In addition the dogs tunneling ability makes the boys in The Great Escape look like rank amateurs.

As a result our sizable back yard is beginning to resemble Stalag 17 with redundant fencing and obstacles like railroad ties and cement blocks. Yet the dog continues to tunnel further under these obstacles.

Tie the dog up you say? It took 15 seconds for the dog to chew through heavy nylon rope. After upgrading to chain the dog yelps and leaps in the air like a Marlin being reeled in.

This unfortunately is what it has come to though and my desire to take the dog "for a ride" has meet the expected resistance.

Suggestions?
 
Have you consulted a Husky rescue agency? I am not suggesting that you take the dog there yet. Tell them about your puppy's behavior. Perhaps a lot of Huskys are energetic like that when young. Perhaps the rescue agency folks have a good idea on how to eliminate that type of behavior.

I would utilize the above recource. If that does not work, then you can look at taking the dog..."for a ride".
 
Edwardo said:
...you can look at taking the dog..."for a ride".

Are you saying to drop the dog off somewhere on the side of the road. I really hope that is not what you intended to say.
 
Dr.Lane said:
Are you saying to drop the dog off somewhere on the side of the road. I really hope that is not what you intended to say.

No. Of course not. The Ride would be to a shelter, pound or some rescue outfit.
 
Just because the dog has some behavioral problems doesn't mean you should euthanize it or take it to the pound. Owning a dog is a large responsibility, part of that responsibility is helping the dog live well in your environment. I think this dog could benefit well from proper training. I'd suggest you look in your phone book for dog trainers in your area, or contact your humane society, tell them your situation and I'm sure they will be able to suggest some places that can help you.

If none of that works, or is too much for you then contacting a husky rescue group would be a good way to find the dog a good home. If you can't do that, PLEASE take the dog to your local animal shelter so it can find another home. This dog's behavior is no reason to euthanize it.
 
I agree with Chris. This puppy's behavior is a training issue, not a behavior issue. The puppy needs to be trained to chew on the appropriate things (I assume you are providing chew toys, nylon bones, etc) rather than furniture, and needs to be trained not to howl when chained. Owners frequently make mistakes such as "giving in" to the puppy's howls and letting him use them as a way of getting whatever he wants, providing reinforcement for his bad behaviors. He needs to understand that YOU are top dog, not him - and this can be done by proper training, using positive reinforcements for his GOOD behaviors, and appropriate negative reinforcements (NOT physical punishment) for bad ones. If you want to keep the puppy and allow him to grow into a well-behaved adult, you will need to commit to spending time training him yourself, under the supervision of an experienced dog trainer.

If that is not an option and you decide you do not want the dog, the first place to turn is the dog's breeder. Any reputable breeder will take back a dog whose home isn't working out. If returning the dog to the breeder isn't an option, you can find a list of local contacts for Siberian Husky Rescue here.

PLEASE don't take this dog for "a ride". That is the cruelest thing you can do (but perhaps it is an indication that you should not be a dog owner).
 
How anyone got the idea I would put the dog to sleep by my post is beyond me.

I have read through the husky rescue tips. It appears we can look forward to several years of this behavior. Training MAY help.

Let me point out that I have had many years of experience with dogs. My parents had a kennel that bred Old English Sheepdogs, Shitzus, and Chinese Crested. My mother continues showing and breeding dogs to this day. I also have worked with veterinarians for years.

This dog KNOWS what she is doing is wrong. It is a game for her. She is doing this for attention and the pure joy of being chased around afterward. When she has managed to get past the 3 fences it is pointless to pursue her. Once she ran 2 blocks to a fairly busy street. I thought, well, that's it. I turned to walk back home and as soon as I pushed the button to close the gate she ran through and returned to the back yard.

It is cruel to keep the dog chained up to only run loose occasionally. But my wife and daughter would rather keep the dog in this fashion than to give it to someone else.

This is the dilemma.
 
snapper said:


It is cruel to keep the dog chained up to only run loose occasionally. But my wife and daughter would rather keep the dog in this fashion than to give it to someone else.

This is the dilemma.

Sounds like you know what the right thing to do is. Both you and the dog could be better off in this case, perhaps a rescue service or shelter would be able to place the dog in a more suitable situation.

As for your household, perhaps you can replace the dog with another pet (preferably a less energetic breed) this time. I personally prefer smaller dogs. The larger dogs are a bear to handle when they are young and can cause alot of damage (as you know).
 
First, most working breeds make poor house pets in general. And pets-as-surprise-gifts are a terrible idea. But I guess that's a bit of a moot point now.

Most Huskies require considerably more effort to train than the average pet dog. They require a lot of persistence and patience as well, because most are quite strong-willed. If your 13-year old Husky was mild mannered his whole life, you had an exception to the rule.

I realize you say you have a lot of experience with dogs, breeding, and working with vets... But most of the issues with this dog still sound like training issues! I'm sure if you re-read what you wrote you will agree. Have you ever trained a difficult dog before? Many people who are around dogs a lot assume they know how to train them, but are really not very good at it. If you feel you have done your best so far to train the dog, I would suggest working with a professional trainer.

If the dog has been poorly trained thus far, it will require even MORE effort and persistence to make up for that fact. But they are great dogs, very smart, friendly, and activity-oriented, so if you will put in the effort I think you and your family will end up with a good friend for many years. It is also critical that the dog respect and obey EVERY member of your family, including young children, which can take time even after you have trained it to obey you because you need to show your children how to work with the dog properly as well.

If, however, you are not willing to put in the time and effort this will require, you should take it back to the breeder or place it with another family that is able and willing to do so. A shelter is a not a nice place for a dog, especially one like a Husky.

Digging is a trait of the breed, but the dog may simply be bored. Huskies are generally very intelligent and energetic. They need to be provided with regular challenges and considerable exercise outlets on a regular basis. If you do not do this, the dog will make his own challenges and find outlets for his energy (typically mischievous, inventive, and destructive.) I don't think a Husky should be left unsupervised out in the yard for extended periods... They get bored, and bored usually leads to mischief.

As for the chewing and howling and escape attemts, at over a year old he's definitely old enough to know better, so I suspect he has simply either not been trained properly and persistently enough (you need a LOT of persistence with Huskies), or you have not established proper dominance with this dog.

Additionally, for chewing, make sure you provide and train him on things he CAN chew, and also use some don't-chew-on-this flavor spray on stuff you don't want chewed. But again, you should not be leaving this dog alone in the back yard for extended periods. It WILL get bored and it WILL chew if you leave it out there with nothing else to do.

For howling... Some howling is common for the breed, but to get to the point of being a problem the dog must be left alone outside a lot, and it shouldn't be. It needs to be properly trained so it doesn't have to be left chained outside, because it will never be happy that way. If it is howling during brief trips outside, constant negative reinforcement works wonders. Start with spray of water, if you religiously do that for weeks with no improvement (unlikely), you can try a no-bark collar, but you need to TRAIN with the collar, not just slap it on the dog. But I've never seen a Husky that was a problem howler if it wasn't left outside for long periods.

Huskies can be a little difficult to establish dominance with, particularly once they are a little older, but it is critical with a breed like this (a working pack dog) that you establish that you are alpha. Until you have done that, the dog will not reliably respect or obey you. Since it sounds like you have a good dog background I'll assume you know that establishing dominance does not mean "bullying" (and certainly not hurting or abusing!) the dog. However, for the benefit of others, here are some ways to establish dominance (in order of increasing "severity").

First, the most important thing to know is that you cannot ignore ANY challenge to your dominance from the dog. Your dominance will be challenged frequently by a dog like a Husky, particularly in the 6 - 18 month range. Whether he is trying to "squeeze you out" walking through a door or starts taking a game too seriously, I cannot emphasize enough that you must deal with every single challenge. You must always (1) win the contest (2) establish dominance (3) praise the dog.

You should have the attitude of "I am always right, you (the dog) will do what I want, and I will not put up with disobediance, period." NEVER get angry with the dog. They do not respond well to that, and you are likely to hurt the dog doing some of these things if you are angry. Teaching the dog to fear you is not good or effective. You want the dog to love you but respect you. You should be calm, firm and direct. Always use the minimum correction necessary.

Timeout - Put the dog on a down stay (if not trained, put it in its crate). 15 minutes is fine. No yelling, no fuss, no big deal. Can be surprisingly effective, especially with a "pack" dog like a Husky. When you end the timeout, praise the dog and play with it.

Eye contact - Stare the dog down. If your dog does not back down in a stare contest, start a verbal correction. As soon as it backs down, praise it.

Tap under the chin - Alpha dogs correct subordinates with a nip under the chin. You do it by tapping (NEVER hitting) the dog under the chin with 1-2 fingers. DO NOT tap the dog on top of the muzzle - that will make him afraid of your hand and can possibly injure his sense of smell.

Grab under the ears - Again this is something alpha dogs do to subordinates. Grab a handful of skin and fur under your dog's ears firmly (but not so as to cause pain) while verbally correcting. You can step this up a little by "shivering", but I hesitate to even mention it because it must be done with VERY small motions and VERY lightly, as if you were shivering from being cold. DO NOT SHAKE or you can seriously injure the dog! Do this just enough to get the point across. DO NOT grab the dog by the the neck. Praise and positive reinforce the dog after.

There is a stronger technique, but I think it should only be used if your dog is aggressive towards people, which yours is not, so I am not going to discuss it here.
 
Thank you, for the constructive comments.

The dog has many toys, all are in much better shape than the last garden hose she got a hold of. She is chained to a large dog house in an area where her digging will not do much damage.

Two things occur to me.
1. If she is kept chained up, there will be no damage for me to repair. This will allow time for my daughter and me to work with the dog.

2. The dog has not been fixed yet. DOH! Raging teen-age doggie hormones.
 
I have 2 black labs that think they are little people. I sometimes have to put the foot down and let them know who is in charge. They don't like it very much, but it has to be done.
They LOVE riding in the car though. No, not the NSX but the Integra !
 
Dr.Lane said:
Are you saying to drop the dog off somewhere on the side of the road. I really hope that is not what you intended to say.

Haha!

How did you assume that from what he said? I certainly did not. I assumed (and correctly) that Snapper was implying that he was going to take the dog back to the breeder or to a rescue agency.

I would never assume that someone on this board would abandon a puppy.

Not everyone using that phrase means something sinister. Dr. Lane, you are only allowed two mafia movies a week for six weeks. Then call me in the morning! :D
 
Might a kennel built (6'x6'x20')(?) in your backyard help in keeping the yard from looking like a war zone?
I know it isn't the place to have them 24/7 but it might give her a place to calm down and to keep out of trouble.....
 
Edwardo said:
Haha!

How did you assume that from what he said?...

I guess that I've known one too many people that have taken a dog "for a ride" and dumped it off in the woods. A terrible thing to do obviously.

Edwardo said:
...Dr. Lane, you are only allowed two mafia movies a week for six weeks. Then call me in the morning! :D

Fughettaboudit!
 
Training Tips

Lud,

Your previous comments were EXCELLENT. I so often (and ignorantly so) encapsulate peoples expertise on this board to cars. Strange logic at best....

Anyway, two additional tips I'd like to humbly suggest are an invisible fence and tobasco sauce.

The invisible fence is a bit pricey but VERY effective for our 5 month old Golden Retriever pup. (Not sure how much room you have which is also a factor).

A long time ago, I learned a trick of giving a tiny bit of Tobasco sauce (the one w/ the red cap, not the green) to a howling dog. While it "sounds" cruel, it is very safe and EXTREMELY effective. Use it each time he barks nonstop or bays. Do this AT LEAST 3x and thereafter just bring it out to threaten if he starts (bearing in mind a little barking is very normal). You'll be pleasently suprised.

I'll send you my bill......Good Luck!
 
Lud's reply is excellent. These are the techniques we have used with our dogs and they work very well. It is also important to make sure the dog realizes that it is below your child in the pecking order. Nipping will result if he tries to establish dominance over your daughter and that won't be in anyone's best interest. We have raised several Guiding Eyes puppies; dog socialization and training with different handlers makes for a dog that is trusting and unlikely to be aggressive ever. Many 4H's, YMCA's and other organizations offer these classes and I highly recommend them. It would be nice if your daughter is old enough to participate. The radio fence works great if your dog is trained to it. If there is no training lots of dogs won't "get it" and will continue to run away or will refuse to go out. As others have pointed out Huskies are very high energy. Lot's of exercise is important...A tired dog is a good dog. If you are willing to put in the time to make this work, I am sure you will be successful.
 
Edwardo said:
I would utilize the above recource. If that does not work, then you can look at taking the dog..."for a ride".
Edwardo - I think most of us here knew that your comment was not meant to be sinister. Some people are just looking for an excuse to flame others and spin things the wrong way.
 
I also agree with Lud's advise. Try to use these training techniques and also the invisible fence is wonderful for escape artists! I think that everyone needs to try to train their dogs before giving them away. Too many people just give up and return them. I got my dog at the Humane Society because a family got him as a cute 4 month old and never tried to train him. Then they brought him to the Humane Society because he barked and dug in the backyard, although they mentioned that they never tried to train him. After basic obedience, he is a wonderful dog and is going to be competing in his first agility trial in August.

Just shows that a little obedience can go a long way!
 
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