Champ Car street circuits; fun but for whom?

[92 white 0650]

In the business world or anyone’s world, you have to have an angle these days, because our western culture is all about one-ups-manship. And we all know that Champ Car has a new angle that may very well prove to be an excellent business plan. But the drivers, mechanics and engineers have got to be screaming in agony and wishing for a return to natural road courses that aren’t so damn short, bumpy, narrow and unforgiving. That Houston circuit last nite looked almost as bad as San Jose. The drivers can’t pass in a civilized way or hang it out at 10/10ths, the engineers don’t have a clue how to set the car up and the mechanics are fixing stuff 24-7. Brutal. I’m all for putting on a show, but what’s next? A moat to jump?

 

[schuey1010]

Keep Long Beach, and maybe Toronto, and dump all those other street courses. As you stated, there is no passing, attendance is subpar at best, and the racing STINKS.

"Fun but for whom." Only the fans who sit around all day and drink themselves silly at the local bars around the circuit. Those people need to stick to NASCAR. Sorry if I offended any fans who enjoy NASCAR and miller lite. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[NSXDreamer2]

well, but is TX supposed to be a truck nation with die hard nascar fans just kidding...

If they ever bring it to Seattle, I would think it will be rock... nah, it could only happen in GT3/4, as I couldn't even drive normally without some zigzagging in Seattle city roads...

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Racing: dumbed down

Only the fans who sit around all day and drink themselves silly at the local bars around the circuit.

Yeah, the racing is definitely secondary to the carnival going on outside the track. With that dumb blonde showing us the volleyball, mechanical bull, snow-cones or whatever, you'd think it was spring break on MTV. And similar to Ralph and Derek calling the F-1 race on CBS, the show is not aimed at those who know racing.

Oh well, what should I expect when Champ Car is now about auto-crossing/drifting with K-rail instead of orange cones? I guess I miss sitting in my lawn chair at Laguna Seca, 100 ft from the brake zone of T-2 and watching stuff like Oriel do a high twisting endo over the other backmarkers and landing on his wheels in the trap. We gave him a standing ovation !!! :tongue:

couldn't even drive normally without some zigzagging in Seattle city roads...

Don't worry, Seattle will have it's race eventually; How about along the trolly tracks on the waterfront? Or up on Capitol Hill? Nothing's too tight or too bumpy anymore.

 

[schuey1010]

Re: Racing: dumbed down

And similar to Ralph and Derek calling the F-1 race on CBS, the show is not aimed at those who know racing.

Don't even get me going on the coverage of F1 that CBS forces us to watch. Those two are worse than running your fingers down a chalk board. I wish I could watch without hearing their commentary.

the show is not aimed at those who know racing.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[H-carWizKid]

Keep Long Beach, and maybe Toronto, and dump all those other street courses. As you stated, there is no passing, attendance is subpar at best, and the racing STINKS.

"Fun but for whom." Only the fans who sit around all day and drink themselves silly at the local bars around the circuit. Those people need to stick to NASCAR. Sorry if I offended any fans who enjoy NASCAR and miller lite. :biggrin: :biggrin:

Apology accepted.

I was at the race in Houston on Saturday, and it was very competetive. You just have to look at the nich they are filling. Here is a road racing series that is bringing the sport to places where they might develop a new fan base.

You want all road courses with only 1 or 2 street courses- There is a series for that, and it is called F1. The thing is, not everyone is willing to travel halfway across the nation to experience the 2 North American F1 appearences.

The race in Houston WAS entertaining- the festival atmosphere was less about snow cones, and Volleyball and more about open paddocks- you could pick your way between the Atlantic, ALMS, and Champ car pits, and get up really close to the machines. It was impressive.

I wonder just how fast your pure motorsport series would die a financial death. Money makes Motorsport go round, and sponsors are the money. Sponsors want to be seen, and city streets venues that attract a more diverse crowd will accomplish that.

The racing STINKS?!?!?
The track was challenging. Smooth, no, but challenging yes. The racing was competetive- and combative. Anyone sitting in the grandstands between turn 5 and 6 were treated to Mario Dominguez's run at Bourdais- he went for the pass button on the short straight between 5 and 6 and literally threw his car into the inside of Bourdais going into turn 6- the sheer velocity of the move was one of the ballsiest pass attempts I have ever seen in motorsport. I watched F1 on Sunday- there were no such spectacles.

Yes, we live in the land of NASCAR- and you know what? It is racing too. Maybe you turn your nose up at it, but it is still a multi-billion dollar jaugernaut of a series. The reason? Because you can see all of the action from your seat. NASCAR drivers are just doing what Indy drivers do, only they do it without the benefit of massive downforce producing wings, and steam-roller sized rubber to hold them in place.
They also pass more often than any other form of motorsport, so they are constantly in red zone proximity. It is white knuckle to say the least, and my hat is off to them.

If you don't appreciate it- don't watch. It isn't killing you that the races are happening somewhere. Is it?

I ask you this- when we live in such a motorsport challenged country as the U.S. why criticize what little homegrown racing we actually have? Do you think eliminating the series, or homogenizing it into minor-league F1 will draw more fans, sponsors, and events? Do you think it will create more sponsorship opportunites to grow and develop new racing series to watch and enjoy?

I think making it a road course based series would alienate the masses, and pander to the snobs who can't enjoy anything that isn't refined enough for their consumption. But then I guess those snobs probably would have turned up their nose at the ONE (1) beer this NASCAR/ Champ Car fan consumed under a hot Texas sun. after all it was a Budweiser Can you imagine???

It burns my ass to read your criticizim of the only motorsport we have, but I can testify that no one in my area of the bleachers appeared to be intoxicated even though they were obviously enjoying the racing. You can tell when people are applauding and pumping their fists at the cars as they scream by- people were having fun, even though they were so tightly crowded in their seats (Subpar attendance?)

Sorry you disagree.

Your loss not mine.

Philip

 

[95EagleAWD]

Edmonton and Cleveland also provide some great racing.

 

[92 white 0650]

The race in Houston WAS entertaining

Absolutely agreed, it was entertaining. So were the gladiator fights in the Coliseum. :wink:

How about some more entertainment? Make the drivers wear an eye patch, boxing gloves and ski boots. And turn the lights down. And maybe have that dumb blonde try some mud wrestling.

 

[H-carWizKid]

Absolutely agreed, it was entertaining. So were the gladiator fights in the Coliseum. :wink:

Again- we differ in the perceptiopn of the event, and more importantly the definition of motorsport.

What you didn't see was the atlantic drivers commenting after the race that the surface provided additional challenges to their skills...

The series was founded to be run on street courses, and the surfaces are challenging. I guess if they really wanted to make a statement the drivers would race in the IRL, or some other "track- only" series instead.

What exactly do you think they are out there to do? The teams, and the drivers know the challenges of the series perfectly well. They still signed up to participate, and drive.

They don't need to be spoon fed.

You want all road courses with only 1 or 2 street courses- There is a series for that, and it is called F1. The thing is, not everyone is willing to travel halfway across the nation to experience the 2 North American F1 appearences.

/\/\/\/\

The good news is you don't HAVE to watch. Dumb Blondes, Sno cones, volleyball, or Champ Car auto racing. You could just watch a different series. You have F1, A1GP, World Challenge, even SCCA to choose from. Did you miss that part of my post?

As the series matures, and the commitees that organize the events in the host cities have the opportunity to learn, and prepare I believe we will see improvements. Right now a host city like Houston has very little experience prepping for motorsport. It was evident on the grounds, and in the paddocks that better organization would improve the event. The point is that the event didn't really require tremendous improvement in order to be a viable racing venue- They held a successful competition.

How about some more entertainment? Make the drivers wear an eye patch, boxing gloves and ski boots. And turn the lights down.

Don't let the marketers of RedBull get ahold of that one- they might try to make it happen. :wink:

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Ahhh, youthful exuberance. I love it.

Again- we differ in the perceptiopn of the event, and more importantly the definition of motorsport.

Well, you’ve got that right my friend, my definition of motorsport is optimizing the conditions for the drivers and crews, not making them work more, risk more and be more frustrated than conditions naturally present.

the atlantic drivers commenting after the race that the surface provided additional challenges to their skills...

What did you expect them to say? …….what would you say about your boss on camera? Racing interviews are about as lame as it gets. But we’ll save that for another thread.

What exactly do you think they are out there to do? The teams, and the drivers know the challenges of the series perfectly well. They still signed up to participate, and drive.

They are out there to make as much money as they can; it doesn’t mean it’s their first choice of where and how to race. Do you think Andretti, Penske and them went to the IRL because they suddenly got tired of turning right? It’s all about the money and the drivers, mechanics and engineers are at the bottom of the totem pole instead of the top where they were at one time. My statement implies no judgment because that’s just the way it is, but let’s not be naive about who’s calling the shots.

The good news is you don't HAVE to watch.

That’s exactly where I’m going, thank you. The more I race, the less I watch.

As the series matures, ……… didn't really require tremendous improvement in order to be a viable racing venue- They held a successful competition.

Again, the point of my post is not that Champ Car will not be successful; they will be, we’re all in agreement on that. The point is that street circuits are not where the drivers and crews primarily want to race; it’s simply too risky, too expensive and too frustrating. Get out of the grandstand and on to the grid. When you’ve been in the cockpit and balked by backmarkers on tight courses, pulled a few all nighters fixing a broken car instead of just cleaning gravel out of it and paid way more money than you’ve got, then you can tell me how great street circuits are.

 

[H-carWizKid]

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

Well, you’ve got that right my friend, my definition of motorsport is optimizing the conditions for the drivers and crews, not making them work more, risk more and be more frustrated than conditions naturally present.


When you’ve been in the cockpit and balked by backmarkers on tight courses, pulled a few all nighters fixing a broken car instead of just cleaning gravel out of it and paid way more money than you’ve got, then you can tell me how great street circuits are.

Your definition of motorsport is making it as easy as possible?

Play GT4 then :biggrin: It doesn't get much easier than that!


Oh Boo hoo for the poor unfortunate race drivers, and pit crews who working too hard and living your dream.

I suppose you REALLY feel bad for the rally drivers and crews- imagine how much time they have to spend prepping their cars for the abuse they endure. and those poor drivers having to bounce down country roads all day- it would be better if they ran their series on pavement... .

Oh wait... They probably EXPECT that kind of labor- because they know what kind of conditions they will be racing in.

Since the Champ Car teams have experience with street courses from years of CART series races it isn't unreasonable that they understood the challenges of running a series on street courses, and EXPECT the additional stresses and strains of racing in those conditions.

Yet they still do it.

I shed a solitary tear for the misery your hobby brings you. why not take up Knitting?