Carbotech XP10/XP8 or XP6s?

CL65 Captain

CL65 Captain

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OK, folks.... time for new pads.

I had my HP+s on this weekend and they just don't cut it.

Who has run both the XP10/XP8 combo as well as the XP6s (Panther +s)?

I swap out my pads for the street, so dust/squeal etc dont matter. My thoughts are that the XP6s being a combo pad aren't going to cut it at the track either. However, that's what SOS is recommending for 20 min DE sessions over the 10/8s for "enduro".

I run hard in the instructor group but I do only run 20 min sessions.

Oh, the other option is Cobalt XR2/3s but they are about $100 more a set.
 
Often the limiting factor is not the pads, but the tires. What tires are you running at the track?

I have been quite happy with the dual purpose Panther+ (AX6) for years on OEM calipers/RB two piece OEM size rotors on street tires and RA1s. Never had brake fade but I have hit 600+F on the rear rotors when measured in the paddock; so I am sure at the track they are probably 1000+F

With the Stoptech BBK, I am using XP10 for track and Bobcat for street. The f/r brake is balanced and they are running cooler. I can brake later (there is more torque now with 13" rotors) but again, the limiting factor is not the brake but the tires.

XP10 on OEM brakes is a bit overkill if you ask me. And you do not need to mix XP10/XP8 if you don not have brake bias.
 
Sorry Hrant, should have included the info...

Toyo R888s, stock calipers, RB 2 piece stock size rotors F/R, ATE Blue, 2" ducting F/R.

The HP+s would start fading after 4 laps in which case I would ease up for a lap and they would come back.

HP+ are fine for autocross or heavy street use, but can't hold up to heavy track use.

Chris' recommendation was XP10/8 rather than 10/10.

The reason I am questioning the XP6 is that every "combo" pad ~ HP+ and Cobalt GT Sport that I have tried has let me down with eventual fade in which case I had to back off for a lap or two to let them cool down.

The Hawk DTC60 was pretty good, but they don't make a track pad for the NSX rear (other than the Blues which is old technology, eats rotors and toxic dust).
 
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Cooling is key with the brakes. Since you have the patience to swap pads for track (I didn't with the OEM calipers), and are driving hard - a relative term, try the XP8. You will be happy.

Otherwise, you can try set of AX6 with the dual purpose.

10/8 will give you more front brake bias which is not necessaily bad if your bias was 50/50 (like Brembo GT); the Stoptech already have some front brake bias, so does your OEM calipers.
 
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Hrant said:
XP10 on OEM brakes is a bit overkill if you ask me. And you do not need to mix XP10/XP8 if you don not have brake bias.
Click to expand...

Why do you think the XP10 is overkill on OEM brakes yet OK with the Stoptechs?

Maybe XP8 front and rear?
 
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Yep XP8 front/rear shoud work.

BBK offers more torque and hence more stopping power; all that friction will go through the pads to the rotor and hence heat them up - assuming one has the tires to stop the car. You are still on R888 and already have cooling ducts. Your limiting factor is the tires unless by hard driving you also mean hard on brakes. Have you measured the temps of your rotors from a hot lap/session. The XP10 has a higher coefficient of friction and temp range.

If you plan to use slicks in the near future, and/or add FI/turbo, then you would benefit from BBK and more aggressive pads. Once I went to CTSC, the BBK was the next progression.

Give Danny or Chris at Carbotech a call. Tell them I referred you. http://www.ctbrakes.com/contact.html
 
From Carbotech's website....

"AX6™ is NOT a race compound, and should not be used as such. AX6™ shouldn’t be used by any intermediate or advanced track day drivers, and should not be used with “R” compound tires (racing tires). Cars in excess of 300hp and/or 3,000lbs should not use AX6™ for any track use."

 
I runned 5 trackdays with the Panther+/AX6 and slick tires. I NEVER had any fading even on the Bresse track in France that has the reputation of being a brake killer. Now if it is for track use only and if your rotors are resistant, I would go with XP10.
 
Agree...XP10s are great track only pads. On the street, they squeal like crazy (I'm too lazy to switch back to the Bobcats:smile:).
 
I just purchased XP8's from SOS for both the front and rear. I ran the Panther Plus in the past, and ran into the same info about the AX6's as you did in regards to it not being a track pad.

I'm very satisfied with the pads and think they are a great track pad that can still be driven on the street. I GREATLY prefer them over the Cobalt Friction GT pads I replaced them with (I could easily over temp the GT's and they were hard on my rotors).

The XP8's dust a lot, but I am able to keep the squealing to a minimum by using the factory shims and liberal amounts of high temp brake quiet.

So far I have one track day on them, with several 30 minute sessions. I ran extreme performance street tires, and didn't experience any fade. I am really hard on brakes, and these perform great. I can't comment on using them with R compound or better rubber.

I have about 350 street miles on the pads in addition to the track day, so far so good on the squealing. I did re-apply brake quiet when I cleaned my suspension, so I am not sure how well it will work or if it will bake off.
 
I used panther plus with slicks on the track and I put up with squeel on the road as i am to lazy to swap myself. The panther plus gave me good life and great breaking on the track. I have never felt any real fade even with 30 minute plus sessions at Roebling Road outside of savannah. It is a 9 turn 2 mile road course. I just put the new version carbo tech brakes on last week after my most recent session at the track where I had 3 full days and over 9 hours on track time. In addition I was an instructor and had my student in my car for 5 sessions and gave an additional 5 sessions with taste of the track participants, so I was running with an additional 200 pounds in the passenger seat most of the weekend.
 
cl65 - did you make a decision? i just had all six of my racingbrake rotors turned today (to eliminate heavy hawk pad deposits) and i'm strongly considering switching to carbotechs as well. one of my bmw racing buddies suggested xp12/xp10 for r-comps, xp10/xp8 for street tires. but i'm not sure if should go with staggered or same pads front/rear. i'll be running slicks, got four 230/610-17s yokes yesterday for $60. hope they clear my fenders!
 
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Put my XP10/8s on the car today. Going to Putnam Park on Sat. Will let you know...

What did you ever do with the RB+2 and the Enkeis? BTW: Did the RB clear the fronts?
 
CL65 Captain said:
Put my XP10/8s on the car today. Going to Putnam Park on Sat. Will let you know...

What did you ever do with the RB+2 and the Enkeis? BTW: Did the RB clear the fronts?
Click to expand...

i gave up on the enkeis for now, the 17" definitely didn't clear in back so i got rid of them. i may still do 17/18 rpf1s but i don't know if i should get front 35mm offset (for max brake clearance) or 45mm (for max tire-to-fender clearance). with only one set of wheels i'm kinda screwed - if i mount the slicks and it rains i'll be in trouble. i've tried contacting SOS to get an inexpensive set but for whatever reason they don't call back or answer emails.
 
CL65 Captain said:
Put my XP10/8s on the car today. Going to Putnam Park on Sat. Will let you know...

What did you ever do with the RB+2 and the Enkeis? BTW: Did the RB clear the fronts?
Click to expand...


Absolutely, night and day from any combo street/track pads I have driven on.

Great bite and feel stayed the same from lap 2 to lap 20. Most of the people went home by 4pm so I ran an entire hour straight and the pads were consistent and strong the entire time. No easing up on them after a couple of max effort laps like the Hawk HP+ or Cobalt GT Sport pads.

A+ for the 10/8 combo. BTW: No squealing either on the way home. Lots of dusting ~ a given. :wink:
 
CL65 Captain said:
Absolutely, night and day from any combo street/track pads I have driven on.

Great bite and feel stayed the same from lap 2 to lap 20. Most of the people went home by 4pm so I ran an entire hour straight and the pads were consistent and strong the entire time. No easing up on them after a couple of max effort laps like the Hawk HP+ or Cobalt GT Sport pads.

A+ for the 10/8 combo. BTW: No squealing either on the way home. Lots of dusting ~ a given. :wink:
Click to expand...

excellent, i'm going with them for my next set as well. pity i have a full set of ht10/hp+ to burn up first. did you use pair them with previously used rotors or were they clean?
 
Ya... I didn't turn the rotors. I did pull them off and scrub them real good with steel wool pads and brake cleaner first though. Then took them out and did a "street bed in" to transfer material. A dozen of 70-30 moderate stops until I could smell them. Let them sit over night and then did a real bed in at the tack for 5 laps and then pitted in to let them cool until the next session.

If you scrub them with steel wool and brake cleaner they are fine. I think Carbotech goes over board with their "new or turned" rotor bit so they don't get any calls or complaints. Same way Racing Brake says only use Hawk pads on their rotors.
 
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You will love them... I came from Hawk DTC60/HP+ (which is a complete mismatch - the only thing Hawk has for our rears are Blues ~ which suck).

Complete night and day from the Hawks. The hotter they got, the better the XP10/8s seemed to work.
 
Throw the Hawks in the drawer and switch. I still have 1/2 a pad of DTC60s front and 1/2 a pad of both F/R HP+. Emergency pads when I forget to order new ones and have a track day the following day. :cool:

If you just turned the rotors, get the Carbotechs now!
 
CL65 Captain said:
Throw the Hawks in the drawer and switch. I still have 1/2 a pad of DTC60s front and 1/2 a pad of both F/R HP+. Emergency pads when I forget to order new ones and have a track day the following day. :cool:

If you just turned the rotors, get the Carbotechs now!
Click to expand...

done, i should have them by wed. i'll be at the track three of the next four weekends so unless it rains i'll be giving them a good workout. all i need now is a second set of 17/18 wheels.
 
Would you recommend this setup for track only or is it okay with cold stopping power? Would you recommend it for a low skill intermediate on a stock setup or would it be overkill?
 
The cold stopping power seams fine. However, I wouldn't recommend it for a daily driver and there is no reason to run them on the street other than to/from the track and maybe a little in between if you will be tracking again shortly and you don't want to swap.

They won't stop you any shorter they only let you stop repeated times without fade. They also have a lot of torque so I wouldn't recommend them with anything other than a R compound or Summer Extreme tire - Khumo XS, Dunlop Z1, RE11, Falken 615, etc.

However, yes I would recommend them for ANYONE who tracks their car ~ even an intermediate. However, I would also recommend you don't daily drive with them. So if you are OK with swapping pads in your garage, then go for it.
 

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