Carbotech Panther Plus Still The Best?

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14 April 2001
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Many have given the thumbs up to the Carbotech Panther Plus (CPP) brake pads. Do you still feel this way?

What would be your second choice? I'm concerned about the noise that the CPP's make. What's a brake pad comparible to the CPP's but just doesn't make as much noise...

Thanks in advance.
 
Oh, as of now, these are for 50% normal street use. 50% "agressive" street use. No track yet... but I'm estimating AT LEAST 2 track events for 2003.

... and I'm pretty hard on brakes.

[This message has been edited by POWERED by HONDA (edited 06 January 2003).]
 
I've been using them for a couple months and love them. Very quick response and big-brake-like stopping power, even when cold. But yes they squeak like mad sometimes. Some grease behind the shims would probably help quiet them.
 
If you are not driving on the track, an excellent pad that dusts little with no squeal is the Porterfield R-4S.

Yes the CPP squeals; however, it is more a function of pad temperature vs applying anti-squeal paste to the back of the pad. When the CPPs are cold they do not squeal, nor when they are hot. At some intermediate temperature under light braking, they squeal. But considering that when I press the middle pedal the car stops immediately, I don't mind a little squeal.

Dusting is another issue so I just wipe my wheels down every two or three days. No biggee. Besides, that gives me abother reason to go fiddle with the car.
smile.gif
 
Andy and Solid describes these well. The Carbotech P+ was designed as a race pad. It gives "big brake" performance and the positive aspects of a race pad (good torque, good temp resistance) with out the usual negatives of a race pad (although, as mentioned, they do dust and squeal slightly (although, much less so than any other pad with it's stopping power). It has a very broad effective temp range while being friendly on the rotors in that temp range. That makes the compound very unique. The pads are as durable to use in competitive environment. Recently, I attended a open lapping in Seattle day just to try to fade the pads. I completed 22 laps with out stopping. I faded before the pad did, and had to come in to rest. I was impressed. Based on what I have heard from others, many others feel the same way.

You can find these pads at a discounted price, and another two we recommend, the Hawk HPS and HP+ on our website.

Cheers,
-- Chris


Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
If you are not driving on the track, an excellent pad that dusts little with no squeal is the Porterfield R-4S.

Yes the CPP squeals; however, it is more a function of pad temperature vs applying anti-squeal paste to the back of the pad. When the CPPs are cold they do not squeal, nor when they are hot. At some intermediate temperature under light braking, they squeal. But considering that when I press the middle pedal the car stops immediately, I don't mind a little squeal.

Dusting is another issue so I just wipe my wheels down every two or three days. No biggee. Besides, that gives me abother reason to go fiddle with the car.
smile.gif



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Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
 
Originally posted by Andrie Hartanto:
So Andy, what made you try the Panther +? Was it because of my comments a while back, about you changing pads, and I'm drinking margarita at the shades?

I have been running CPP in the front and R-4S in the rear since 2001. What comments did you make and when? I do not recall. I switched from Galfers F+R after hearing this recommendation from another NSXer on this forum, when I was contemplating proportioning valves....which turn out to be not needed for my track driving style.
 
I cannot speak for lots of other pads, but the Panther Plus pads have been so good for me I cannot imagine going with any other pad. As Chris said, they will not fade. They last forever compared to other track day pads. I have used the only pair I have owned for 6+ events, most at VIR which is a high speed, 3.3+ mile track.

The squeaks I have had came from rotor wear more than the pads themselves. They will wear rotors at street temp, but will do great on the street and track. Some have said they do not modulate well, but I have no problem. I have not tried the XP pads, or the plain Carbotech Panther pads, but will be happy to hook up any NSXer with a set if they want to try them.

------------------
Gary Yates
1995 Red/Tan Boooleevard Cruzer
1992 White/Black Track Rat
2002 Red and White Cooper S - for sale, please inquire
 
Originally posted by sjs:
A timely question. I was just about to look for them to fit the Brembo 12.9 (F&R) kit as sold by Dali. Are they available, or do I need to take measurements?

Hi Steve - if you are asking if the CPP are available for the Brembo Lotus caliper, the answer is yes. I run this pad in the front and the Porterfield R-4S in the rear. Brembo F+R.
 
The master cylinder in the NSX has an internal hydraulic circuit to compensate for F-R pad grip. In other words, the pad compound is the same, but the hydraulic pressure is such that the rear brakes grab less than the front. Otherwise, the rears will lock up under hard braking with equal F-R hydraulic pressure.

When folks install a big brake kit on the NSX with the same F-R pad compound, the brakes are so strong, that they overwhelm the factory master cylinder. In other words, OEM can not keep up with aftermarket. When I first got my B-bo calipers, they came with Galfer pads F-R. One track session showed me that I need proportioning valves. After fiddling with said valves for "hours", I ditched that effort. I called Comptech to ask their advice. Answer - mix pad compounds. I then called Andie Lin while he was still with Carbotech. Answer - mix pad compounds.

The CPP is a harder, more agressive pad than the R-4S. Sure enough, I returned to the same track that I ran with Galfers, and only under EXTREME braking did the rears lock up. So I ditched the prop valves and have been happily running mixed pads for two years with zero problems.

As far as vendors, I go to the respective manufacturers directly.

My motto for boosted cars - going fast is fun; however, stopping even faster is important.
 
This is because the Brembo Gran Turismo kit, which Andy has, uses the same size caliper and disc front and rear which disrupts brake balance. Andy is using different pads to adjust this balance.

We sell the entire Carbotech line, or you could call Carbotech directly.

Cheers,
-- Chris

Originally posted by sjs:
Thanks Andy. Why the difference F/R? Can you suggest a vendor?



------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
 
Originally posted by ncdogdoc:
I have used the only pair I have owned for 6+ events, most at VIR which is a high speed, 3.3+ mile track.

I have seen this as well. I just changed my original set used with the ScienceofSpeed AP Racing Big Brake System that has been on the car for 12 track events and about 6,000 miles. The good wear is partly due to the fact that the discs runner cooler as they transfer heat better.

They do have a disadvantage in that they are affixed to the backing plates with rivets which limits the effective amount of pad available for usage. It is a good thing that they have good wear. However, last time I spoke to Larry at Carbotech, they should have their new bonded pads released soon that eliminates the need for the rivets.

-- Chris


------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
 
THANKS everyone for all your input! I've decided to give them a try when it comes time to change my brake pads (soon).

If I can't stand the noise & dust, I'll just try the R4S that Andy suggested.

Thanks again everyone!

[This message has been edited by POWERED by HONDA (edited 12 January 2003).]
 
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