Car is in snap ring range - How much less should I offer?

[Damage]

I did a search on here and I've found costs for preventative measures against a snap ring failure ranging from $1500 all the way to $2500.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a '93 and up in my price range so I'm still limited to '91-'92 models. If I found one that's in snap ring range, I'm wondering what's a reasonable amount of money to allocate for preventative work? Would negotiating ~ $2000 less than asking price be ok?

And to further clarify after searching here...what exactly needs to be done to prevent snap ring failure? I read in the FAQ that the ring itself isn't the problem, but an improperly cut (upper?) transmission case. In other searches I read the snap ring should be replaced too. What's the definitive answer? Also how do I reduce the cost of this repair here. I'm assuming I would buy the parts (upper transmission case and snap ring?) from places like SOS instead of the dealer?


Thanks for your help.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

IMO, just because the car is in the snap ring range doesn't mean it has the problem. It could but not for certain.
If you think the seller is an honest person then ask if he/she has ever experienced the systems of the problem. If not then it may not have it.

 

[nsxtasy]

If I found one that's in snap ring range, I'm wondering what's a reasonable amount of money to allocate for preventative work?

Remember, the snap ring might never fail, in the absence of preventive work. And even if it does fail, all you have to do is not drive it, and have the repair done. So at worst you're out the cost of the work, and at best you're out nothing. Therefore, IMO, you can't deduct the full amount of the work from the market value. IMO, $1K might be a fair amount to adjust.

what exactly needs to be done to prevent snap ring failure? I read in the FAQ that the ring itself isn't the problem, but an improperly cut (upper?) transmission case. In other searches I read the snap ring should be replaced too. What's the definitive answer?

The case causes the problem, by causing damage to the snap ring. So you would need to repair both the snap ring and the upper transmission case.

how do I reduce the cost of this repair here. I'm assuming I would buy the parts (upper transmission case and snap ring?) from places like SOS instead of the dealer?

Only if the person performing the repair is willing to use parts purchased elsewhere - and if you don't care about a warranty on the repair, which most mechanics won't give when using such parts.

If you're going to have the work done, have it done by someone with the experience needed for the job. That's the most important part. If they're willing to use parts purchased elsewhere, and you don't mind the possible lack of warranty on the work (you should), then worry about where to buy the parts. Those who worry about saving a couple hundred dollars in parts and are willing to have their cars worked on by mechanics who lack sufficient experience in transmission internals fall under the maxim of "penny wise, pound foolish".

If you are this concerned about the possibility of incurring a $2K repair on the car, I would suggest (a) not buying an NSX in the snap ring range, and (b) not buying an NSX at all.

 

[mc-ca]

I'd get a quote from the place you expect to do the work and deduct it from the price of the car - assuming the buyer did not already deduct it. A good condition '91 is probably worth $28K. Check for timing belt in the last 6 years - if no records take out $1200.

I bought a very good condition '91 but it still cost me $4k in fixes. All fixes seem to cost about $1K. Coolent hose repair and tow - $1K, Window regulator $1K, 4 new tires $1K, asperator fan $1K. The good news is that once your past the usual fixes, it's as reliable as a civic and as fast as a Corvette.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I'd get a quote from the place you expect to do the work and deduct it from the price of the car

He didn't say that is was broke rather just in the range.

 

[CokerRat]

#1: Nsxtasy is right as usual. Forget about opening up the tranny until it fails.

#2: Are you a gambler? If not, steer clear of any car in the range. If you are, read on: On one hand you have an unknown chance of a failure that could cost you around $2000. On the other hand, it might not cost you a dime if it never fails. What are the odds of it failing? Use your judgement, but from what I've read, my gut says maybe 20-30% chance, possibly much lower. So then how much of a discount do you need to make that possible.... put another way, how much would you pay for a lottery ticket in which you had a 30% of winning $2000? Take the cost of an identical non-snap ring car, subtract the $2000 repair cost and add back that amount you'd pay for that lottery ticket --> That lands you at a break-even price for your risk tolerance. Any further discount you can get is gravy.

In my admittedly limited experience, few sellers consider the snap ring worth much of a discount. Nsxtasy suggests $1000 which I think is a little bit high personally, but the point of my above analogy is that you have to figure out how much it is worth TO YOU first. Only then can you tell if the deal is fair for your level of risk tolerance. Very few new buyers know about this issue, so every seller keeps in mind his next interested buyer may not know about it and hence pay full price.

The only thing to add to this is that a failure can be considered an opportunity to install short gears or a non-stock R&P with zero labour cost. You might consider counting this as a credit against the snap ring repair costs should they ever occur.

 

[SCS2k]

I'd get a quote from the place you expect to do the work and deduct it from the price of the car - assuming the buyer did not already deduct it. A good condition '91 is probably worth $28K. Check for timing belt in the last 6 years - if no records take out $1200.

I bought a very good condition '91 but it still cost me $4k in fixes. All fixes seem to cost about $1K. Coolent hose repair and tow - $1K, Window regulator $1K, 4 new tires $1K, asperator fan $1K. The good news is that once your past the usual fixes, it's as reliable as a civic and as fast as a Corvette.

Ouch! $1000 for the aspirator fan! I bought mine for $220 and put it in myself. Took me about 1/2 hour. Is $1000 the going rate for that repair? Sorry that this is OT.

 

[nsxtasy]

In my admittedly limited experience, few sellers consider the snap ring worth much of a discount. Nsxtasy suggests $1000 which I think is a little bit high personally, but the point of my above analogy is that you have to figure out how much it is worth TO YOU first.

I agree with CokerRat's analysis. You have to realize that you may never have to do the fix (unless it's worth it for your peace of mind).

Two additional thoughts come to mind...

1. If a repair costs $2000 and you have a 20-30 percent chance of it happening, but if it happens your car is sidelined and it involves some inconvenience to get it resolved, you might be willing to pay more than $400-600 to avoid that situation - hence the $1000 figure.

2. When purchasing an NSX, a swing of $1000 in price is not major. Heck, how you negotiate the sale can create swings of $3-5K. Establishing market value during a sale/purchase transaction is not an exact science.

All fixes seem to cost about $1K.

Only if you're overpaying or exaggerating. $400-500 including parts and labor is a typical price for the aspirator fan replacement. The same amount is also a typical price for replacing a window regulator on one side; if it hasn't failed, you can upgrade the regulator with a fix-it thingie for $10 parts and an hour labor. A coolant hose repair should cost less than $500. A complete set of four OEM '91 tires costs $778 at the Tire Rack, and wouldn't hit $1000 even with shipping and mounting/balancing. Besides, half the time you need to replace tires, you only need to replace the rear ones.

 

[mickeylex]

snap ring offer

Damage,
Before you decide to go into negotiation and deduct for the snap ring, first determine if the price the seller is asking for might fall in a price range that is already lower than a comprable non-snap ring car. If its a good deal already, then see if you can get a reduction for snap ring, but if you can't then decide if the price is low enough that the savings covers cost you might incurr for the possible future failure of the snap ring. You will find that most sellers don't discount their asking price for snap ring. They know that if their NSX is in good condition and runs strong it will sell, eventually (snap ring or not).

Ken suggested a price reduction of $1,000. In reality you might find that the $1,000 reduction in the final negotiation is pretty accurate. Assuming a snap ring fix is $2,000 (normally), the seller will probably be willing to go 1/2 on the cost with you (since the snap may never fail). The seller takes a gamble by lowering the price, and you take a gamble by possibly having to do the snap ring fix in the future. At least you get the $1,000 price reduction toward the fix if its ever needed.

Since you are negotiating, you might want to go in with a $1,500 - $2,000 reduction on the price for snap ring and land on $1,000 with the seller. If you get $1,500 reduction - thats gravy. If you get $1,000 - consider that reasonable for both you and the seller.

Good luck.

 

[mc-ca]

Only if you're overpaying or exaggerating. $400-500 including parts and labor is a typical price for the aspirator fan replacement. The same amount is also a typical price for replacing a window regulator on one side; if it hasn't failed, you can upgrade the regulator with a fix-it thingie for $10 parts and an hour labor. A coolant hose repair should cost less than $500. A complete set of four OEM '91 tires costs $778 at the Tire Rack, and wouldn't hit $1000 even with shipping and mounting/balancing. Besides, half the time you need to replace tires, you only need to replace the rear ones. [/B]

I was rounding up - but not by much. The average person going into the dealer with a busted window regulator will get a $500 part and $300 labor estimate. I did it myself and used the NSX discount for the part. Coolant hoses if you do them all hit $750. Tires are much more expensive with bigger rims and mounting/balancing costs are $50 each.

 

[nsxtasy]

I was rounding up - but not by much.

Wrong. You were way, way off. But at least now you are admitting that you didn't pay anywhere close to $1000 for anything you claimed you did before.

The average person going into the dealer with a busted window regulator will get a $500 part and $300 labor estimate.

Wrong. The average person will get a part that most dealers sell for $400 or so, and pay 1-2 hours of labor at $75-100/hour, for a grand total of ~$550 or so. If you paid a lot more than that, then you are not average. But you are suddenly admitting that you didn't pay $800 for this repair, either, let alone $1000.

I did it myself and used the NSX discount for the part.

So you rounded $350-400 up to $1000, huh?

Coolant hoses if you do them all hit $750.

Funny how your story keeps changing. You said you had a "coolant repair and tow", not that you did them all. And even if you do them all, it won't even come close to $750, let alone $1000.

Tires are much more expensive with bigger rims

Bigger rims are your option and have nothing to do with the car as you buy it from the dealer. Heck, you can get a supercharger too, if you want. Maybe that means everything on the NSX costs $10K.

mounting/balancing costs are $50 each.

The only person who pays $50 per tire for mounting and balancing is a fool. And according to this poll, less than 2 percent of NSXprime members are fools.

So there are the numbers, which prove that everything you quoted was wrong. Maybe you're just really, really, really bad at math...

 

[nsxtasy]

P.S. Remember the aspirator fan fix, that costs around $500 (not $1000) if you have the dealer do it?

I see from this other topic that you didn't spend any money on that repair, either...

I bought a very good condition '91 but it still cost me $4k in fixes. All fixes seem to cost about $1K. Coolent hose repair and tow - $1K, Window regulator $1K, 4 new tires $1K, asperator fan $1K.

So I guess none of this was true, huh? Not the things you paid for, and not the amounts you spent.

 

[mc-ca]

Wow! my first time being flamed! Amazing how quickly I turned into a fool who is really really bad at math.

 

[ISONSX]

From my personal experience purchasing a 92 in-snap ring range NSX, I negotiated an approximately $1,500 discount with the seller because the 1) the ring was discovered broken upon final pre-purchase inspection (the seller didn't know about the snap ring issue and there were no typical symptoms like popping out of gear in deceleration), and 2) the estimated cost of the repair from a local NSX shop, not a dealer, was about $1,500 - $800 for the case, ring etc and $700 labor to do the fix. I was leaning hard on the dealer to do the fix and would have gladly paid the seller the additional $1,500, so I was negotiating for his benefit really. I was soooo close to getting the Acura dealer that did the pre-purchase inspection to do the repair until they did a 180 when they realized I was from out of state and would not be patronizing this dealer / region in the future.

However, six months later when I took it in to my local dealer (summer 2003) and asked them to look at it (hadn't driven it hardly at all since purchasing it), they goodwilled a completely new transmission for me to the tune of $8,300 retail! I consider myself very lucky for Acura to pick up the tab on that one. What's better than a snap ring fix - a brand new factory installed transmission with a full warranty at no charge. I threw a new clutch in although it didn't need it since Acura picked up all of the labor.

I would agree with the concensus that $1K is about right for a discount on this item, especially if no typical symptoms exist. What's the worst that could happen, do the roughly $1,500 fix and throw a new clutch in as well since you have already covered the labor cost to pull and re-install the trannie.

If it's not broke, don't fix it and pocket the difference.

 

[nsxexotic]

offering 1500 less is fine but when you factor in your time... energy... towing expense to get it fix. Its a big hassle.

just my opinion - i may be wrong :-(

from my experience its more than 1500 if done at the dealer.

 

[nsxexotic]

ISONSX - how did you managed to get it goodwill. Do you mind me asking how much mileage . what year. and when this happened?

thanks.

 

[ISONSX]

ISONSX - how did you managed to get it goodwill. Do you mind me asking how much mileage . what year. and when this happened?

thanks.

I think it is fairly well documented here on Prime that Acura has long since stopped goodwilling the snap ring issue. However, I have come to the conclusion that I was able to get mine covered since 1) I'm in a smaller geographical region that has less probability of additional costs for this repair and 2) my region hasn't expended the same level of absolute dollars on this goodwill issue. Now this is just a guess but that was also the idea from someone I talked to in a much more concentrated geographical area at an Acura service department thought as well. If Acura goodwilled this in southern California for example, there would be numerous additional NSX owners lining up for the same no-cost fix whereas Tulsa OK is not exactly the highest concentration of 91-92 NSXs with potential snap ring problems. In essence, less probability for Acura to incur significantly more follow-on goodwill expenses. Mileage was about 49K (50K now), 92, all books and records since new. Service was done last summer (July or August 2003)

I think in the end, it was very beneficial to prove that the car had been serviced at Acura dealers since new and had all recommended scheduled maintenance done on time (i.e., 15K, 30K, 45K, etc). By being able to show the extensive preventative maintenance history, this seemed to help my cause. I was told by one of the higher volume Acura dealers to count my lucky stars since this was unheard of in thier marker for the last three years. Yes, I was very lucky as I saw the invoice for the trannie covered by Acura. I did show my loyalty by putting in a new clutch and had them do the timing belt, water pump, and all drive belts as a preventative maintenance item. So I spent about $3,500 or so out of pocket anyway.

 

[NCC-1701D]

once you own the NSX and start driving..You will quickly forget about what you paid for car and whether or not it was a good deal or not.....

like master card commercials..

cost of NSX $XXXXX.xx
cost of insurance $XXXX.xx
cost of gas $50.00 (CND)

the joy and the pre c*m you get everytime you open your gargage door.......PRICELESS !!!!!!!!!