BS or not BS?

[ak]

I need some opinion on this...

Last year in Nov/Dec, I had my front end repainted/replaced at a reputable bodyshop in VA due to minor accident I had. Meaning brand new front bumper both upper and lower.

Earlier this year, I start seeing some paint bubbles on front bumper. Bird poop would eat up and leave mark on the paint within a day. And then to put icing on the cake, the paint cracked massively near left head light. Also, Paint was starting to wrinkle up where it is rubbing against the pass side fender. Also, the paint would bubble anywhere if a rock hits and the lower bumper paint is now dull and not smooth at all.

So, I take it back to where I had it painted since the paint job is supposed to be a lifetime warranty. Well, they look at it, then tells me the bumper has been repainted after I took it to them so they can't do anything about it. What they claim is that they see overspray on the rubber pieces between the bumper and the fender and tiny bit on the turn signal. The thing is, I do not remember whether I saw this over spray right after the paint job was done...I think I did but it's a distant memory now. So they claim that whenever I had my car serviced, the shop probably spray painted it due to some damage on the paint while they had the car. This year, my car has been at a dealer once and at another shop getting alignment/dyno done without me there. These were also only one day jobs and I picked up the car at the end of the day. It's possible what they claimed could have happened but it's very unlikely plus too convenient. It also does not explain the crappy turn out on the lower bumper. I don't remember whether the paint started to bubble before or after those visits also since they were the first thing I did after I took my car out of the winter hybernation...

So basically, now I am stuck with warranty that is no good and $1400 to repaint(that's what they claim I would have to pay). Since I don't know much about this quick repaint scheme that the body shop claim exists(vans would come around and just paint on the spot?), I have no idea if it was actually done or not. Where the paint is cracked, the paint underneath is black which is the same as my car, but not sure how many coats of color you'd lay when you paint cars.

Granted, their job on my hood/fender was good, but I just can't buy their claim of repaint on the front bumper. what do you guys think? It's just disappointing that places I take my car to around VA area has been constant letdowns. Money is not an issue with me and that's why i took my car to where I took it(most expensive in town).

-ak

 

[JAYS NSX]

Sounds like complete BS to me, and I think most will agree.

This is a lesson we can all learn from; check the quality of work before you leave!!

There is a FLEXING agent that must be mixed in appropriate ratio for the paint to resist flaking on flexible parts like mumbers and mouldings. Maybe they messed that step up.

A mobile van that comes around and paints the cars? I am totally confused at the concept, let alone the fact they are the most expensive in town as you say

As far as the overspray and warranty denial, I would tell the shop that I an going to file a formal complaint with the BBB.

As far as the $1400 to let them repaint the bumper, surely you are not considering giving them $0.01 more? Money may not be an issue, but spending more does not mean you are geting the "best"


Good Luck

 

[Vegas Boy]

Paint BS

The story may indeed be BS, however you need to know that
dealers and independent shops alike do use mobile touch up services. They touch up goofs, scratches, scraped bumper covers, etcs on used cars in the make-ready process. They will also use these services to fix minor damage done to customers cars in the service dept. These are not long term fixes, keep in mind the dealers do this just to get the cars off the lots looking good.
This is done all the time as cars (new and used) are damaged in the shipping, storage and lot management process on a routine basis.

So, story is plausible. In any event, a good shop or dealer would fess us and go over remediation options with you, but I would suspect many dont, just try to cover it up quickly and cheaply.

As an example, check this out:

http://www.franchisez.com/ads/2863.html

 

[mikec]

I agree with jmjrdh1.

A few days after I picked picked up my new nsx, a bird crapped on the front bumper and left a slight but perminant mark. I had waxed the car with Blitz carnuba wax. I have no idea if the zaino I use now will protect better, but... bird dung must be some powerfull stuff.. in any case, get it off as soon as you can.

What marked my car was on no more than 5 hours.

 

[Macros]

Sounds like BS to me...

I used Spectrum Autobody in Arlington, but was never really happy with the results. Took it to Chantilly Autobody and I am EXTREMELY happy with the quality of work.

(This was four visits to the body shop with my S2000)

 

[Tony Montoya]

I think not BS. If you had the car painted at a reputable shop they would have removed the panels to piant them so there would be no paint on the rubber. I think your car was repainted at one of the shops where it was serviced. The black paint under the cracked paint is another clue.

 

[SOLOTYM]

Sounds fishy

Sorry to hear about this...I would be, as I'm sure you are, very upset. I've learned a lot from my own and other's experiences. The one thing that I do is NO MATTER WHAT I never leave my car anywhere. It doesn't matter if its a sports car, daily driver, etc.

I know sometimes it can be a pain "waiting" for your car, but for me in the long run it's well worth it.

There is sooooo few honest people out there that would try to hide or cover up an accident, and then it becomes a "you against them".

STAY THERE AND WATCH EVERYTHING!

JMO

 

[JAYS NSX]

Re: Paint BS

The story may indeed be BS, however you need to know that
dealers and independent shops alike do use mobile touch up services.

Thanks for the info, didn't know about these "mobile painters"

This just confirms the $$$ issue however IMO; how can the most $$ shop in town use a mobile painter?? I may be ignorant of their quality, but to pay top dollar for a guy in a van to paint my car seem odd.

 

[peiserg]

a month ago my dad took his '97 T-100 in for servicing and the guy asked when he'd had an accident (never was his reply). the guy then shows him a bunch of overspray he never noticed inside his door well.. apparantly the car got mashed at the dealership or something, and they sprayed it before selling..?? course, he's had the truck for 6 yrs now and never noticed..

 

[NSXDreamer2]

know that dealers and independent shops alike do use mobile touch up services. They touch up goofs, scratches, scraped bumper covers, etcs on used cars in the make-ready process. They will also use these services to fix minor damage done to customers cars in the service dept.

One more reason that I ALWAYS PUT a Big note with " No Car Wash and Vacuum Please" on the steering wheel / Dash board whenever I went into dealership for service...

 

[Aiken Drum]

Okay, first, it does sound like BS, because it sounds like the first thing they do is look for reasons not to honor their warranty. That screams "ripoff artists" to me.

However, even so, they have no way of proving that the overspray postdates their paint job unless they can show you before and after photos that show no overspray before it left their shop. Tell them that. If they still won't honor the warranty, take them to small claims court and make the same point with the judge. I suspect you'll win. Remember to ask for compensation for time lost as well.

A good shop would fix the problem for you at least once before pointing accusing fingers. Heck, my wife had her TL touched up recently and the guy left a message when she picked it up that said he wasn't happy with how it had turned out and he'd like to redo it when she had time. She found some time and he redid it. That makes a repeat customer. A shop not interested in repeat customers is not a good shop.

 

[LJSB]

Re: Re: Paint BS

Thanks for the info, didn't know about these "mobile painters"

This just confirms the $$$ issue however IMO; how can the most $$ shop in town use a mobile painter?? I may be ignorant of their quality, but to pay top dollar for a guy in a van to paint my car seem odd.

I still think you are confused on the mobile painter thing.
The original body shop doubtfully used such a service but a local dealer or repair shop (non-body shop) would or could use such a service. He did mention being at other repair shops since the repaint.
Most dealer use such a service and since I see you are from my area I got bad news for you, it's quite common in Dutchess Co. where you live. I've seen it done with my own eyes.
As a matter of fact one of my customers had it done to their car and loved the cost of the job $200.00 for a bumper repair and paint all in 1/2 a day! I would get shot if I did a job that looked like this.
I have seen this being done at one of the most well known and highly regarded dealers by the NSX Community (in the NE and NOt a local dealer here in Dutchess Co.)
A person comes with a pickup truck and a bunch of old tints and colors and spots it in right in the parking lot with all sorts of cars around and only covers the affected area with newspaper. Overspray goes everywhere and on the surrounding cars too.

Flex agent is hardly used in modern paint on flexible covers anymore. Ask a paint vendor how much they sell to a up to date shop and you'll see what I mean. Flex agent is old technology and incidently, over time the flexing agent dries up and after six months or so has no value to the panel applied. The better modern urtheane clear coats, like DuPont, need no flex agent and if applied properly will give the same service and performance as the OEM finish.

Now to the original post.

Bird droppings are high in acid and can eat into any paint. It is not a failure in workmanship when this happens. The same goes for acid rain. As the paint attains full cure (60-90 days) it has more resistance to etching but a good coat of wax and diligence on removing these offenses quickly is the best strategy to keep them from leaving marks.

Bubbling, peeling, flaking is a another matter and has to do with the incorrect prepartion, material choice and application error.
Skip a step or skimp and you'll have failure. Bubbles as you described.

The massive cracks at the headlamp sound like a impact occurred at this spot and perhaps caused a shifting of the panel causing it to rub on the right fender.

Paint bubbling where stones have hit sounds like a workmanship problem.
Possibly incorrect cleaning, lack of adhesion promoter or incorrect primer choice are the likely causes.

The dulling on the valence you see is possible overspray of a blending agent or clear used by a possible car lot (mobile) painter.

Tough call without seeing the car.

I wouldn't want a customer to be greeting the world with a failure on my paint but it is a lot of work and time for a re-do on a mess done by some jouneyman with a spray gun in a parking lot .
Tough call. The body shop may be right.

 

[Tony Montoya]

A good shop would fix the problem for you at least once before pointing accusing fingers. Heck, my wife had her TL touched up recently and the guy left a message when she picked it up that said he wasn't happy with how it had turned out and he'd like to redo it when she had time. She found some time and he redid it. That makes a repeat customer. A shop not interested in repeat customers is not a good shop.

Why would a good shop fix damage that they didn't even do?

The bumper was damaged after it was painted by the expensive shop and whoever repainted it did a crap job.
I'm sure it was painted quickly to cover up unintended damage at a repair shop.

 

[LJSB]

Okay, first, it does sound like BS, because it sounds like the first thing they do is look for reasons not to honor their warranty. That screams "ripoff artists" to me.

However, even so, they have no way of proving that the overspray postdates their paint job..."


The first thing anyone would do is examine the complaint to determine the nature of the complaint and the possible cause for failure. It is not to automatically reject a customer's claim.
I believe the burden of proof lies with the accuser not the person accused.

 

[ak]

The first thing anyone would do is examine the complaint to determine the nature of the complaint and the possible cause for failure. It is not to automatically reject a customer's claim.
I believe the burden of proof lies with the accuser not the person accused.

You are right but it sucks when I am supposed to have lifetime warranty and all i get is "it must have been painted over". Seriously, what is the likelyhood of the repaint happening while at only short 2 services for the whole year, each for one day. I know lifetime warranty doesn't mean fix the paint no matter what, but it sucks that they gave no second thought about what happened. The thing is, they know that I can't for sure prove that it was not their paint job that cracked and used it against me without thoughts. That's not the treatment I was expecting after spending $5G for them to do it right. There's as good of a chance it was their mess up as it was someone else's as they claim.

As for going to civil court, I don't really care to spend the effort or the time. I'd rather just get it repainted elsewhere anyway.

 

[Tony Montoya]

Take the NSX to another body shop and ask if they can tell what's going on with the paint. Maybe they can help you out.

For 5k the panels should have been taken off and there should be no over-spray.

 

[LJSB]

Like I said I haven't seen the problem. I'm not saying your wrong. How long has it been since your car was repaired by this shop and how many miles has gone by?
I'd show it to another impartial expert, another shop that doesn't have a axe to grind, if you can find one, and see what they think.
Paint usually doesn't massively crack in just one spot unless it has been hit but some of the other problems you've descibed like the bubbling don't sound right. Are you sure you got a new bumper when the original job was done? NSX bumpers don't repair very well and if repaired often spider cracking shows up in the repair area.
I can imagine one of the other repair shops having a accident with your car and having it "fixed" in one day. It is entirely possible and it DOES happen. GO and confront these other repair shops with what the body shop has said.
Also $1400 to take off the bumper and refinish it and the valence does sound a bit expensive.
Your post makes you sound like the type of customer I'd be glad to have and I think they shop either feels pretty strongly about what happened to your car or they are being foolish.