brake pad question

[TURBO2GO]

Guys sorry for another track newb question. TRackmasters has asked that I bring an extra set of front pads with me to my novice HPDE in 2 weeks. They asked for "just bring the same set as what you have on the car now, high performance pads require brake-in so avoid them".

Well I just called Acura and they want $192 for a set of front pads only... this is compared to anything else I have seen around $80-90 set like Hawks, Brembo's, etc at the tirerack.

My car has 8800 miles on it, not driven very hard. I seriously doubt I need new pads at all but I guess I should take a back-up set. Something that does not need brake-in time. Something I can hopefully use on the street once this 2 day HPDE is over. Can you recommend something to me?

Is it worth dropping $200 on factory front pads?

 

[CL65 Captain]

Guys sorry for another track newb question. TRackmasters has asked that I bring an extra set of front pads with me to my novice HPDE in 2 weeks. They asked for "just bring the same set as what you have on the car now, high performance pads require brake-in so avoid them".

Well I just called Acura and they want $192 for a set of front pads only... this is compared to anything else I have seen around $80-90 set like Hawks, Brembo's, etc at the tirerack.

My car has 8800 miles on it, not driven very hard. I seriously doubt I need new pads at all but I guess I should take a back-up set. Something that does not need brake-in time. Something I can hopefully use on the street once this 2 day HPDE is over. Can you recommend something to me?

Is it worth dropping $200 on factory front pads?

No.

 

[docjohn]

all pads need a propper bed in procedure,however oem manufacturers realize the average consumer can't be trusted to go through a propper bed in (which has been discussed ad nauseum) nice white paper on stoptechs site also: so oem pads can function on the street just fine,but you may get inconsistant results or "green pad" syndrome first time out at the track.I would just get a new set of oem to bring along if your current pads are new.If your current pads are more than 25% used (ARBITRARY) I would put the new ones on and bring your old ones as I doubt you'll burn through a new set in two days,but don't quote me on that,because I have seen brake happy novices overheat/fade new pads.I would make sure your fluid is fresh.

 

[BioBanker]

Is that a policy for Trackmasters?

You cannot go wrong with having an extra set kicking around, so Im quite happy with my Hawk HP+ on street/track. So far I find them easily adequate for my track use alongside stainless lines and Motul 600.

But you dont want to put them on AT the track and then go out and run'em because they wont get bedded in properly (as per above).

So if you need to bring pads, I would first confirm that your OEMs have loads left, and then Id pack a new set (if I had to) knowing that I wouldnt use them.

If you havent done your brake fluid since you got the car, I would put Motul 600 in there NOW and put HP+s in there NOW and I would bring my stock pads in the Hawk box.

The HP+s squeal, which may drive you nuts, but they're not too bad as far as track oriented pads go, and they will give you some bind in cold temps on the street, too, which is always less interesting than no bind.

 

[nsxtasy]

I recommend the Hawk HP+ also. Mine never squeal. It's a great dual-purpose pad.

Regarding the requirement of bringing extra pads to the track with you, as long as you have plenty of pad material on the car, you probably won't need it, and you don't have to as long as you're willing to risk running out of brake pads and losing the rest of the track time from that point onward. OTOH you'll use them eventually, so there's little if any downside to bringing them.

 

[RSO 34]

You should have the current pads checked anyway because you need to bring a signed tech sheet with you to the track. You will not be allowed on the track without the car getting teched in advance so you will at least know how much pad you have left.

I have not seen a novice go through a fresh set of pads in two days at the Glen but that doesn't mean you won't be the first so it is always better to have another set with you "just in case". You will use them eventually anyway so it never hurts to have spare parts laying around.

 

[TigerNSX]

I was in a similar situation when I started out.

What I did was to put on a set of new ones, bedded properly and took the old set with me to the track.

Honestly, however, if your pads have more than 50% left (highly likely on your 8,800mile street-driven NSX), you will not need an extrat set during your first two track days.

I would also make sure that your brake fluid has been flushed and changed recently.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I always bring extra set of pads and fluid to track day. Worse case, if you really burnt the brake, or say sliding pin froze or something... You could still Limp home, way cheaper than calling a flat bed.

In fact I had extra brake lines, coolant and oil too...

 

[nsxtasy]

You will not be allowed on the track without the car getting teched in advance so you will at least know how much pad you have left.

On a pre-'97 NSX, it's easy to look through the spokes of your wheel at the top of the outer brake pad to check the thickness of the brake pad material; you don't have to remove the wheels or anything. There are instructions in the FAQ or you can ask a knowledgeable friend to show you how. (It's the same on the NSX as on any car with disk brakes.)

I always bring extra set of pads and fluid to track day. Worse case, if you really burnt the brake, or say sliding pin froze or something... You could still Limp home, way cheaper than calling a flat bed.

You can limp home even if you wear your pads down to the point where you have to stop driving. As for brake fluid, in 200+ track events, I have never needed any brake fluid at the track.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

On a pre-'97 NSX, it's easy to look through the spokes of your wheel at the top of the outer brake pad to check the thickness of the brake pad material; you don't have to remove the wheels or anything. There are instructions in the FAQ or you can ask a knowledgeable friend to show you how. (It's the same on the NSX as on any car with disk brakes.)

You can limp home even if you wear your pads down to the point where you have to stop driving. As for brake fluid, in 200+ track events, I have never needed any brake fluid at the track.

So True Ken, the brake fluid, motor oil, and soft drink are "common consumption" items from other guys at the event. You always found someone in need of these things. Not to mentioned, those are great things to make freinds at the track....:biggrin: I have one time kinked after market brake line and need to rush home in my freind's car for the extra line and fluid. After that, I just have those in the car just in case.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Guys thanks for the informed replies. Being that I probably don't see myself changing pads at the track or on my trip and these are for a "just in case", I think I will buy a set of Hawk pads instead of the OEM and take them with me.

I already will flush with Motul 600.

A quick question... how good are the factory pads for bite compared to track pads? And does that matter at your first HPDE? I mean would I have seen a benefit had I changed my pads to HP+ beforehand? I have a 300 mile trip to NY and still have time to bed them. Is it worth pulling the factory pads and installing these now?

Has anyone used the new Brembo Pads?

 

[Hrant]

As always you will hear a lot of opinions and some marketing hype when it comes to recommendations.

If you have only 8800 easy miles on your car and no prior track, they should be ample for a few track events as TigerNSX said it. But, make sure you measure how much pad is left. If you have 5 mm left it is ample for a first day as a novice. Check the thickness of the inside pads as those wear quicker than the outside ones. I have ran on OEM pads for several track days as a novice and for the most part they will do well unless a track is demanding of brakes at which time an intermediate driver may wear the pads quicker. OEM pads are NOT designed for tracking but then again you are a novice.

As for would you do better with a "more trackable" pad, yes you will but again as a novice it will have very little or marginal impact at best. When comparing to OEM pads, the "more trackable" pads increase the dusting, and some may squeal but the latter has been discussed amply elsewhere on the forums - the issue is really based on them being ceramic pads. Some pads are more rotor friendly than others. Track pads also require more heat into them to operate at an optimal level hence some time as you move up the ladder in pads, you will notice that they may not stop as quickly in normal street driving.

Now here is my plug. I have found both the service and pricing of Carbotech pads (they do give discount to NSXCA members) to be excellent and I have no problem staying competitive with my OEM calipers at the track with others who have bigger brakes. I have used their Panther Plus (now AX6) for years with no problems, and now I use the AX8 for both street and track driving. However, do I want bigger brakes? Heck yes, there is no substitute to more braking torque (piston size determines that) and cooling (rotor mass determines that) features :wink:

 

[nsxtasy]

Again, while looking at the top of the outside pad isn't as thorough as taking off the wheels and opening the caliper to inspect the entire surface of both pads, it will give you a pretty good idea of how the pads are wearing. I've found, in the 20 or so sets of front pads I've gone through on the NSX, that both pads (inside and outside pad) wear at the same rate, and the top is a good indication of the thickness throughout the pads.

I tried those Carbotech Panther Plus and I hated them as a dual-duty pad (street and track) because they squealed - LOUD! - on the street. They were nice on the track though. I like the Hawk HP+ because they don't squeal at all on the street and their bite is just as good on the track.

A quick question... how good are the factory pads for bite compared to track pads?

I've gone through quite a few sets of stock pads as well as the Hawk, Carbotech, and a few other kinds of aftermarket pads. The stock pads are actually just fine for track use. They don't have quite the "feel" of "bite" that the Hawk HP+ and a few others do, but they work well, especially if you bed them in advance according to the procedures in the technical white papers on the Stoptech website.

And does that matter at your first HPDE? I mean would I have seen a benefit had I changed my pads to HP+ beforehand? I have a 300 mile trip to NY and still have time to bed them. Is it worth pulling the factory pads and installing these now?

No, it's not going to make a big difference in your first HPDE. I wouldn't bother changing them. Leave the ones on there, as long as they have at least 50 percent thickness (i.e. at least 7 mm thick in front, 5-6 mm in the rear).

Oh, and the length of your trip has nothing to do with bedding them. Bedding them consists of getting them VERY HOT (through a series of stops) and then NOT using the brakes, bringing the car to a stop without braking and then letting the car sit overnight.

 

[nsxnut]

I've gone through quite a few sets of stock pads as well as the Hawk, Carbotech, and a few other kinds of aftermarket pads. The stock pads are actually just fine for track use. They don't have quite the "feel" of "bite" that the Hawk HP+ and a few others do, but they work well, especially if you bed them in advance according to the procedures in the technical white papers on the Stoptech website.

I think it really depends on how fast you are and possibly the track. If you are moving at a good clip on a track that has hard breaking zones than the stock pads in my opinion don't cut it. They will shutter as they heat up.

millage may very

Later,
Don

 

[WingZ]

Hey Dave if your fairly mechanical changing pads isn't bad. You could just buy a set of pads just for track and put them in at the track. Brake pads are really easy to swap out ( yes even for a novice ) once you do it once it's second nature. Only takes a few minutes to. This way you could bed them in at the track and just swap them back out when you get home.

I have the carbotech panther plus and like Ken said they squeal badly on the street. So I just use the oems for street driving and my track pads at the track.

Ken is also right that the OEMs are probably good for your first event. My thing is since you have the supercharger you might be ( probably will be ) burning off more speed off the straights than what a stock NSX would be producing.

 

[JeffShoots]

Are you running the stock rotors? If you are great.

My first day "a few weeks after buying the car" I broke a cheap aftermarket front rotor and had to get someone to drive a stock set out to Sears and change them out.

I like the idea of changing your pads now and bedding them (a few good heat cycles and cooling overnight) before your weekend.

BTW: It cracked and took a chunk out when my Instructor was driving :tongue:

 

[nsxtasy]

I think it really depends on how fast you are and possibly the track.

I don't.

If you are moving at a good clip on a track that has hard breaking zones than the stock pads in my opinion don't cut it.

My experience, "moving at a good clip" in 200+ track events, is that they do just fine. However, if you want even more bite, you probably want brake pads designed strictly for track use, rather than street-track pads (either the stock pads or aftermarket street-track pads like the Hawk HP+). And if you're accustomed to track-only pads, you probably feel that way about ALL other brake pads, not just the stock pads.

They will shutter as they heat up.

Shudder, which is caused by uneven deposits of brake pad material on the surface of the rotors, has nothing to do with which pads you use, and everything to do with proper bedding procedures. You can read more about it here and here.

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

Here's what happens with new brake pad under hard braking...

WingZ- thanks for the Volks!

 

[WingZ]

Here's what happens with new brake pad under hard braking...

WingZ- thanks for the Volks!

Dang they look sweet on your ride! Nice to see them being used on the track like their supposed to.

What pads are you using?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

turbo2go, I would just swap the pads and bed them in as wingZ suggested. If you are going to have the extra pads laying around, might as well saving the more expensive yet quiet and low dust OEM pads for street duty.

It's my routine too... I in fact have extra rotors and pads just for track duty, so after I bed those in one time. I don't have to worry about going out at 3am bedding them anymore. (I could wake up the whole neighborhood if I need to do some bed-in properly.) So what you could do is to bed the hawk pads you have now, have fun. Then after you got home, you could get a new set of rotors and put back the OEM pads.

BTW, don't worry about those retaining philip screws on your rotor. You really don't need them and without them, removing rotors and pads only involved 2 17mm screws and 2 14mm.

 

[TURBO2GO]

When you guys are swapping pads are you doing the fronts only?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I swap a set for rear too, and no need to swap the rear rotors; but I'm sure if this is your first time, you don't need to worry about the rear. Just make sure not to set the e brake when you get off the track.

 

[docjohn]

When you guys are swapping pads are you doing the fronts only?

rears last 2-3 times longer.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I've been running the HP+ pads for a few weeks now around the street (never changed back from track). I bedded them according to the link Ken sent on Stoptech's website. I have no squealing at all. Didn't even use the grease, but they are quiet so far! Is there anything wrong with running this pad on the street other than dust? they seem to grab great. Is there a cold issue with these?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

some of my freinds using those 200-??? degree pads and even in winter they are fine...

With HP+, as long as you don't worry about the dust and the squeal, you'll be fine.