Brake cleaner warning!!!! Read the lables!!!

titaniumdave

titaniumdave

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I was just forwarded this link, written by a fellow bicycle frame builder who has been in the business as long as I have, so not just a fly by night hack. Years of experience and he almost killed himself from not following the directions!!!!!

Good warning for all fabricators, home DIY guys and pros!

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Be safe, stay alive!
Dave
 
worlds slowest side known to man... I am still downloading that picture... why didn't he just type it up rather than have it in one large pic?

Anyways I am mirroring it here b/c it took 15 minutes to download a 500KB jpg..

brake.jpg
 
holy moly.. that's serious stuff.. good find.
 
sduffass said:
That's a nice read.

Was he not wearing like a filter mask? I thought whenever you weld you wear some eyewear and a big mask that covers your face.

Stephen
Click to expand...

My guess is he was wearing a welding hood, no respirator. That said, I don't know if there is respirator that can filter Phosgene gas any way...
 
Thanks for this post! I use brake cleaner all the time. I don't remember using heat with it because it evaporates fairly quickly. I know now - NOT TO DO IT! :eek:
 
I don't understand why people don't read labels of tools they work with. :rolleyes: Brake cleaner is known for being a very aggressive solvent. Even for other products one should have a closer look at the label even at the shop. I stay away of products that 'may cause unconsiousness' or that kind if there is other less harmful stuff which has the same effect.
 
We use it also quite often but I'm always very careful with it i know it's nasty stuff but this nasty.:eek:

This is however a common problem that people don't read warnings are can't be bothered by using the recommended safety gear or precautions.
And some people other there are just not that informed/smart when doing certain things.
 
A lot of people don't know that if you mix ammonia and bleach it makes a toxic gas also. Don't mix cleaners either!
 
On another note, several years back I was cleaning the TB of one my cars and instead of using carb cleaner I used a fair amount of CRC brakleen. It did a fantasic job and not realizing the danger, I started the car and let it set and idle for several minutes. I only had one of the 5 bay doors open and soon as I breathed in some of the exhaust fumes I began to throw up. It felt like my lungs were on fire. Luckily it only lasted a few moments but I'll never run it through an engine again. Just food for thought.
 
I won't use brake cleaner for anything els then what you should use it for.

That stuff is very chemical. it will also seriously mess up your paint job.

I've heard of engines actually seizing-up and having major damage after brake cleaner was sprayed in to the throttle body whilst running.
 
Two words: Welding Accumulator. Most welders are likely to develop lung disease over a lifetime career. It is a good idea to use an accumulator when welding long-term. It may have also saved the subject of the story a lot of pain/suffering. Also, never weld anything "wet"...dry your parts with air first.

mobiler-Filter.jpg
 
nsx2tall said:
I didn't think they made brake cleaner with TCE any more?
Click to expand...

He said it was tetrachloroethylene. I think the old (like 10-15 years ago) brake cleaners used to be made out of trichloroethylene. Maybe I got those backwards, but yeah, one is definitely more potent than the other.

I've seen this particular link floating over all kinds of internet boards recently and am glad that he is spreading the word of things to consider when working with chemicals. Glad he's doing OK.

Dave
 
titaniumdave said:
I was just forwarded this link, written by a fellow bicycle frame builder who has been in the business as long as I have, so not just a fly by night hack. Years of experience and he almost killed himself from not following the directions!!!!!

Good warning for all fabricators, home DIY guys and pros!

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Be safe, stay alive!
Dave
Click to expand...

One other thought:

One common cause for most accidents is being in a rush. It gets everyone, from "fly-by-night-hacks" to "professionals." I think what should be learned from this incident, besides reading labels, is that whenever you get in a rush, take a time-out and slow down.

Dave
 
Mac Attack said:
He said it was tetrachloroethylene. I think the old (like 10-15 years ago) brake cleaners used to be made out of trichloroethylene. Maybe I got those backwards, but yeah, one is definitely more potent than the other.

I've seen this particular link floating over all kinds of internet boards recently and am glad that he is spreading the word of things to consider when working with chemicals. Glad he's doing OK.

Dave
Click to expand...

You're right. I was thinking of trichlor. Tetrachloroethylene (C2HCl3) also known as perchloroethylene, Trichloroethylene, TCE (C2Cl4) and Phosgene (COCl2).
 
Actually this story doesn't surprise me at all. Many chemicals commonly used at home and garages can be react with others or change composition over time. If I remember correctly, Phosgene was also used as a nerve gas during the first world war, so that makes it even more dangerous.
 
omega2 said:
Actually this story doesn't surprise me at all. Many chemicals commonly used at home and garages can be react with others or change composition over time. If I remember correctly, Phosgene was also used as a nerve gas during the first world war, so that makes it even more dangerous.
Click to expand...

It's a choking agent not a nerve gas, but that's just semantics, otherwise you are correct.
 
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nsx2tall said:
It's a choking agent not a nerve gas, but that's just semantics, otherwise you are correct.
Click to expand...

Your right. Mustard gas was the nerve gas in WWI.

For some reason, I was wondering about this on the way home. According to the article, he says the heat and argon gas react with the tetrachloroethylene to form phosgene. However, brake cleaner is very volatile and flammable and I would think the heat would probably vaporize the liquid or cause a fire. I remember Chloroform can also form Phosgene, but that reaction is photochemical. Could the brake cleaner have reacted with the intense UV light from welding rather than the heat it produces?
 
omega2 said:
Your right. Mustard gas was the nerve gas in WWI.

For some reason, I was wondering about this on the way home. According to the article, he says the heat and argon gas react with the tetrachloroethylene to form phosgene. However, brake cleaner is very volatile and flammable and I would think the heat would probably vaporize the liquid or cause a fire. I remember Chloroform can also form Phosgene, but that reaction is photochemical. Could the brake cleaner have reacted with the intense UV light from welding rather than the heat it produces?
Click to expand...

No and Yes.

Mustard Gas is a blistering agent. Sarin, Tabun, and VX are nerve gases.

In reading about TCE and Tetrachloroethylene (and Chloroform) I found a reference to UV radiation causing the creation of phosgene. I think your hunch about arc welding is right.
 

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