Big Brake Kit on fronts only, Ok?

[ryneen]

Hello,
I've been running stock calipers, Carbotech XP8 track pads, stainless brake lines, Motul 600 fluid, Dali air deflectors etc. I'm tired of changing cracked rotors all of the time (I can only get 1 day out of Cal Speedway). I've been VERY impressed with the stock braking system, but I want something more reliable with less maintanence. I'm going to be upgrading my stock calipers to Brembo Grand Turismo's for track use.

Unfotunately, money IS an object Therefore I wanted to know if it's safe to just upgrade the fronts as this is where most of the maintanence is with cracked rotors. I was curious if this will affect my braking bias (with stronger brakes in front) and make the car drive different when trail braking under extremes situations.

Any expert advise will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Ryan Rush

 

[nsxtasy]

Big brake setups can crack rotors too. (I'm not advising against it, only noting that I know people who crack rotors fairly often with some of the better kits. I'll leave your question about brake bias to others with direct experience.)

Have you considered running some actual cooling ducts, rather than just the deflectors?

 

[ryneen]

I did think about the cooling ducts. However, to do it properly, I would have to remove the AC condenser which isn't possible for me in CA where it was 110 degrees two weeks ago.

If I leave the condenser in, than the ducting tubes would be comprimised and too small to be truely effective imo.
ryan

 

[NSXDreamer2]

couple questions on your set up: 1. are you cracking your aero rotors, or just one piece? I had the stoptech one and they are amazing. 2. with the Dali deflectors, you must take off the sheild behind the rotors to be effective.

Anyway, back to your question: Don't know about other makes, but stoptech did do their homework and the front ony kit had specific piston size to maintain the front to rear bias. IMO, the biggest problem with BBK are 1. the right offset rims 2. finding the right tires to match the now "just right" wheels (esp. you are using R compound) 3. the cost of the bigger/wider tires (or lack of choice)

 

[nsxtasy]

However, to do it properly, I would have to remove the AC condenser which isn't possible for me in CA where it was 110 degrees two weeks ago.

If I leave the condenser in, than the ducting tubes would be comprimised and too small to be truely effective imo.

Not true. My cooling ducts help tremendously. I've got 2.5-inch high-temp ducting hose running from the front air dam, squeezing alongside the bottom corners of the radiator (above the core support), zip-tied to the control arms, with ends zip-tied to a flange welded to a hole cut in the brake splash shields, blowing air onto the rotors. And my air conditioning system is still intact.

 

[ivanj]

Are you using drilled or slotted rotors? Dirilled rotors will crack. Have you tried slottted only?I would also consider the Racing Brake two piece solution. It is better designed, engineered, and executed than the item you cite, and they are US designed. They have front/rear two piece solutions but I list the front only below. They may also weigh less than the brand you cite for lower unsprung weight.

http://www.racingbrake.com/product_p/2006-311.htm

You can see their engineering expertise here:

http://www.racingbrake.com/main/feature_comp.asp?display=twopiece

They can also hook you up with the Pads you need. The NSX calipers are fine. I agree with the ducting comments.

Peaace,
Ivanj

 

[VintageracerNYC]

I agree with Ivan as I am running RacingBrakes two piece rotor setup front and rear on my racecar and have had NO cracking or fade issues which I DID have with the slotted Stoptechs. The upgraded setup includes new mounting brackets designed and engineered by RacingBrake which utilize the original calipers with larger diameter two piece rotors that are working fantastic on my 92 supercharged racecar! And quite affordable I may add!

 

[nsxtasy]

Are you using drilled or slotted rotors? Dirilled rotors will crack.

I've tried all kinds of rotors - solid-faced, cross-drilled, and slotted. They all crack. I have seen absolutely NO difference in the lifespan (measured in the number of track miles before cracking) between these various types of rotors. Based on the track miles I've gotten, drilled rotors don't crack any sooner than cross-drilled or solid-faced rotors, with identical usage.

I've also used some two-piece rotors with flexible coupling hardware, and those do last somewhat longer than one-piece rotors (but even the two-piece ones eventually crack).

 

[Synthesis]

but if you buy brembo rotors, the warranty doesn't exist for drilled rotors.... not sure about the gran turismo kit though.....

anybody running the brembo indys? wtf do you do if you have to replace those rotors.. or even the gran turismos? never seen em for sale...

 

[titaniumdave]

but if you buy brembo rotors, the warranty doesn't exist for drilled rotors.... not sure about the gran turismo kit though.....

anybody running the brembo indys? wtf do you do if you have to replace those rotors.. or even the gran turismos? never seen em for sale...

Easy to find the rotors, lots of folks carry them, figure you will spend $300-350 each for the rotors. No rotors are warrantied for heat cracks...

I agree with Ken, think long and hard about this one. If you go big, I highly recommend get a 4 wheel set. I had Lotus (GT) front only calipers on my old car, I did not know how out of balance the car was till I got 4 wheels of big brakes. Just because the rotors are big, they will still crack, and cost 5 times as much to replace them and I find mine last about twice as long. My new set with Brembo/Porsche 997S calipers seem like they will last over 20 track days, but this is because I have gone big and heavy with my front rotors, 32 mm x 330 mm dia. with a gigantic swept area. I will still put better cooling ducts in, like Ken suggests.

Don't forget wheel clearance, this can kill about any budget...

 

[robfenn]

Good point by Dave, a lot of kits need big wheels.

The new AP Racing kit on our NSX is just amazing, and fits under 17s. Having a handbrake mechanism is great for the street too.

 

[Ponyboy]

As others have stated very well, bumping up to a big brake kit requires a series of major (subjective perhaps) modifications that, in turn, require a lot of thought behind them. Which brand brakes, style of rotors, which new wheels to buy, how much will they weigh, will they fit over the bigger calipers, wheel style, what offset, sizes of your preferred track tire, sizes of your preferred street tire, potential rubbing, will I have to use spacers, will I have enough money, what brake pad to use, etc. - are all questions that you'll have to figure out before spending much $$ on upgrading your brakes.

If you plan accordingly, the result is worth the effort though. Your rotors and pads most likely will last longer and, if you can discern it, you should have better pedal feel. All things being equal, stopping distance should be better if you decide to run a taller and wider front tire. Be sure to keep the wheel weight down though.

 

[ibDursty]

I'm running the RB with the 2 piece rotor kit on the front. So far so good although I have really abused them yet. They look nice, good quality, much lighter, and fit under the stock 16" wheels with a 5mm spacer. The next step up from that would require larger rims and are of course a bit more money.

 

[ryneen]

Thanks for the info everyone.
1) I'm currently running 17" Technomagnesio wheels with RA1's. These wheels will in fact clear the Brembo's, so I'm not worried about having to buy new wheels.
2) The stock brakes are amazing, but I can't run a 25 min session at Cal Speedway without them cracking. I do have Dali air deflector's, but I haven't tried Ken's ducting. I'll give this a try regardless if I remain stock or upgrade to BBK.
3) I have the opportunity to buy a brand new 4 wheel Gran Turismo kit for $2400. This is a good deal considering the retail price for these, however this is still a lot of money for me. However, if I get 4 of the Racing Brake rotors, it will cost me aprox $1000, which is nearly half the cost of the entire BBK. I'm assuming continued usage of each scenario (stock calipers w/ Racing Brake rotors VS. BBK), would be cheaper to run the BBK in the long term. Does this sound correct, or am I not factoring in all of the details?
Thanks,
ryan

 

[titaniumdave]

Ryan,
Get the GT kit if it is complete for $2400, with lines, brackets, calipers, rotors, hats...that is a screaming deal! With your Tecno wheels, you are indeed good to go. The stock set up I think has the same pistons in all 4 calipers, you might want to check that out. If they are the same, the rear brake bias is a bit strong, you might want to balance with pads and go with a bit grippy-er pad in the front.

Go for it and have fun!

 

[2slow2speed]

Hey Ryan,

Hope you got my Vmail on Friday afternoon.

With your driving style and the tracks that you drive at and the speed that you carry a BBK would be the way to go, in the long run the rotors on a BBK last longer than the stock and the pads last longer too. Braking consitency and confidence will definetely lower your laptimes too

Ken

 

[ryneen]

Thanks everyone for your insight. I've made up my mind. I'm getting Brembo Grand Turismo's on all four wheels. I guess I need to now find out about what pads to get for proper brake balance.

Ken, When am I going to see you at the track again? Are you going to the Spring Mtn Dali event? How about the Super Street Time Attack at Buttonwillow? I'll be attending both. Looking forward to seeing you at the track soon.

Ryan Rush

 

[titaniumdave]

Ryan,
You might try Carbotech XP-8's in the front and Panther plus in the rear. Carbotech lists the pads as 'Brembo Lotus calipers, .480" ', the thickness is from memory so may not be correct. The backing pads interchange with some Vipers, but the material is thinner.

Another option would be Pagid Oranges in front and Blue in rear.

 

[SMGNSX]

I have only one thing to say!!

http://www.comptechusa.com/store/420110.html

Steve