Best suspension set-up...kind of long

[nsxfast]

I have a few questions about what suspension set-up's you guys are running for track days, etc. First off, my dad is the owner of the car and when he bought it 2 years ago, he was planning on using it for a track car, but due to his addiction to fast and custom cars, my brother and I have had the privilage of getting the most seat time in it.
The first season we left the car pretty much stock, or as we bought it (tires: Pole Position SO 3's, headers and exhaust). Then as the tuning bug hit us, and we realized the tuning potential and great driving dynamics of the car (and that we would keep it for a while) we started to due some upgrades. We installed Brembo's GT kit ALL AROUND, with a rear brake bias control, 17" SSR competition wheels with kumho "R" compounds @all four corners and Eibach lowering springs.
Once these mod's were installed, the car felt almost comletely different. For one, the brake almost threw me out of ther car, but what was very intersting was the change in handling characteristics. When the car was stock, it felt much more predictable; there was screeching from the tires and a healthy amount of underserteer under hard cornering, and the weight transfer was under control. But now, the car seems to want to oversteer, leaving less communication with the rear tires. Also, under hard braking the tail seems to want to step out, which can make things a little hairy.
Questions: What is the ultimate or preferred track suspension set-up? We were thinking of going with Moton suspension, b/c that is what we have on our other track car, and it is amazing. thoughts? Also, is moving from 18" wheels in back to 17" in back causing some of the communication loss? I assume most guys are not running "R" compounds, as it was a b*tch, to track some down, what else is recommended?
I know i have left some things out, but i am in a hurry, so any info is aprreciated. Thanks

 

[ediddynsx]

If you are going with track only car then get the motons 4 way adjustables, type-r braces, non-compliance toe beams, non compliance toe links, compliance pivot clamps, rear strut bar, rear stabalizer bar, hardened motor mounts, OS Giken race tranny, centerforce clutch, ultra featherweight chromoly flywheel and don't forget to get the motons dialed in. (corner weighted and balanced).



That will make your car a tracker. :smile:


http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=1721

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http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=1380 for 5 speed

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http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=1399 for 6 speed

http://scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/suspension_accessories.asp

http://scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/engine_mounts/


It won't hurt to have this either

http://scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/oil_pump_gear/

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any more questions feel free to contact Jon Martin at Cerritos Acura

 

[2slow2speed]

I have a few questions about what suspension set-up's you guys are running for track days, etc. First off, my dad is the owner of the car and when he bought it 2 years ago, he was planning on using it for a track car, but due to his addiction to fast and custom cars, my brother and I have had the privilage of getting the most seat time in it.
The first season we left the car pretty much stock, or as we bought it (tires: Pole Position SO 3's, headers and exhaust). Then as the tuning bug hit us, and we realized the tuning potential and great driving dynamics of the car (and that we would keep it for a while) we started to due some upgrades. We installed Brembo's GT kit ALL AROUND, with a rear brake bias control, 17" SSR competition wheels with kumho "R" compounds @all four corners and Eibach lowering springs.
Once these mod's were installed, the car felt almost comletely different. For one, the brake almost threw me out of ther car, but what was very intersting was the change in handling characteristics. When the car was stock, it felt much more predictable; there was screeching from the tires and a healthy amount of underserteer under hard cornering, and the weight transfer was under control. But now, the car seems to want to oversteer, leaving less communication with the rear tires. Also, under hard braking the tail seems to want to step out, which can make things a little hairy.
Questions: What is the ultimate or preferred track suspension set-up? We were thinking of going with Moton suspension, b/c that is what we have on our other track car, and it is amazing. thoughts? Also, is moving from 18" wheels in back to 17" in back causing some of the communication loss? I assume most guys are not running "R" compounds, as it was a b*tch, to track some down, what else is recommended?
I know i have left some things out, but i am in a hurry, so any info is aprreciated. Thanks

Hmm..

Rear end wanting to step out under heavy braking could be caused by brake bias issues. What pad compounds are you using? Even with brake bias adjustment being available you might run into problems. (Rear wheels locking before the front depending on pad/rotor temps, ABS issues, etc, etc)

Installing Eibachs can deteriorate the handling of the car, so you might actually have made the handling worse by doing so. And why Motons? Some of the fastest guys tracking/racing NSX's use the Comptech Pro suspension, you wil probably save 2K or 3K by going with the Comptech Pro, and there are more folks running with the Comptech Pro rather than the Motons. You can also go with the NSX-R Suspension (no need to tune it and muck around with it and it's reasonably good for a track car setup)

Stiffer sway bar up front, either the Comptech or the Dali Race/Street.

All the other stuff like non-compliance toe links, non compliance bushing on the rear beam, non-compliance toe clamps are extraneous until you can get the rear end to stay in under hard braking.

P.S. It's not that hard to get R-compounds, it all depends on the sizes that you are using on your car. Many other choices besides Kumho are available, (you just have to look somewhere else besides thetirerack, list the tire sizes that you are looking for, that way folks can help)

 

[OLDE GUY]

NSXFAST - You have thus far over-powered the braking and tire adhesion capability of your NSX versus the suspension capability so the NSX is no longer balanced. To begin with, it sounds like you have too much rear brake bias so the NSX is not stable in straight line braking and certainly isn't balanced for brake-turning ( trail braking ). You may want to read through this Thread on brake dynamics especially the last half where brake bias is discussed:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57074

In this Thread is the following comment from NSXGOD (Dali) about the Brembo BBK they sell:

"Brembo seems to feel that the ABS/TCS can handle a braking balance ratio of "0" (ie the front and rear have the same braking force) which always felt a bit odd to me without bias adjustment to tone the rears down. JMOYBDMV.

Biasing the braking a bit to the front allows for a more "stable" car. If you have stiffer front suspension with less dive then having more rear braking available should give shorter braking distances all other things being equal."

You might want to give him a call for suspension recommendations. For what it is worth, I have the NSX type R suspension including the thicker front type R anti-roll bar. I didn't want to do the adjustable suspension - keep it simple, say I. For brakes, I upgraded my 1994 to the 97+ NSX larger brakes and my NSX is beuatifully balanced under braking especially trail braking. Very stable.

 

[Kip Olson]

Hi NSXFAST, 2slow2speed and old guy are giving you accurate information, IMHO. As far as the CT pro kit or motons, Maybe Andrie Hartanto can chime in. He started with the CT pro kit and switched to the Moton kit. He has since removed the Moton and purchased the CT pro. He is REALLY FAST and he seemed to like the CT better and the $$ savings would purchase a few other mods that make a significant difference in your tracking experience. I have the CT pro kit and love it. I have every option (and then some) that CT makes. I don't believe you can go wrong with anything they make. Brake bias adjustment should probobly wait until you choose your suspension and it is installed or you will have to readjust it because the handling dynamic wil drastically change with different suspension. Just my 2 cents. Kip Olson

 

[titaniumdave]

What are you running for alignment? A good alignment you are comfortable with, geared toward R compound tires is needed to make the car perform predictably. I would suggest you get the alignment dialed before you make any more changes. If you are running stock numbers, the car will handle well below it's capability once you go to R compounds, they need much more camber to hook up, plus I like less toe front and rear to make the car more predictable under hard braking.