Best Motoring Supercar Video

[ALLAN]

Well, it seems some of you diehard Nsx guys forgot to include some info on the video.

First off there is a mini test of the Lambo and F50. No acceleration, some handling crap. Have no idea what they said. One thing is for certain, the F50, was not stock. It had a catless Tubi exhaust and aftermarket wheels that were clearly visable. Who knows what else it had as there are numerous manufacturers stickers on it. Sounded awesome though.

Then they had a 3 car mini test, the Z8, the Porsche C4s, and the Nsx-r. In the standing 400m, the Nsx edged out the Porsche, by about 1 tenth, and you could see the driver of the Porsche bogged the launch, it was like 12.8X for the Nsx, 12.9X for the Porsche. The Z8, which according to NSXTASY is faster than a Diablo VT(lol) turned a 13.50. In the full lap, the Porsche trounced the Nsx, turning a 55.xx to the Nsx's 56.xx, and the Z8 was also at 56.xx. I dont remember the numbers exactly, but this was an oval type race meant for achieving a high rate of speed, and the porsche reached approximately 8-9kmh more than the Nsx-r. I dont remember if the Z8 beat the Nsx, but i do know it was slower than the Porsche.

In the all out race, the guy driving the Lambo was sleeping at the start, as virtually every car launched on him. The guy driving the Nsx-r was a great driver, hitting ever speed berm head on, while the Lambo driver went completely around them, maybe using them slightly for apex's. The Lambo, actually passed the Nsx in an earlier lap, but the driver almost lost it in a turn and the Nsx went around again. It seemed like the driver of the Lambo knew he wouldnt catch the F50, or the Gt2, so he didnt really try after that, waited to the end, and blew past the Nsx-r on the last straight like the Nsx-r had slammed on the brakes. Cool video, but the only real performance showing was the 3 car test of the Nsx, C4s, and Z8, as each car was individually tested, and i think driven by the same driver. The rest was just a show.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
The Z8, which according to NSXTASY is faster than a Diablo VT(lol)

Not according to me - according to the testers at the car magazines. According to Car and Driver (4/01) the Z8 does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 13.0. According to Road & Track (12/94), the Lamborghini Diablo VT does 0-60 in 4.7 and the 1/4 in 13.2. You may not like it, ALLAN, but those are the published test results in magazines which anyone can look up.

ALLAN says that the Z8 is "slow". Which means that the Diablo must be REALLY SLOW.

Funny how ALLAN quotes test results that he likes, but when he doesn't like the results, all he does is make excuses.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[ALLAN]

Ok Nsxtasy, ill get out my other 30 magazines and tell you what they say. Like i said, but you failed to answer my question in the other topic, "How many miles have you driven in either car? " I have driven thousands of miles in Diablos, and atleast a thousand miles in a Z8. Any Diablo, will smoke a Z8.

 

[Viper Driver]

Allan-

I don't know you personally, nor do I have near as many posts as you do. However, in my short time here I have read enough of your posts to form an opinion or two.

I haven't seen the video you reference, nor do I have it on order. The only thing I can gleam from the posts about it is that it may be subject to a bit of a "home field advantage" when it comes to the NSX. I've seen that said before, by actual NSX owners on this forum. Now, you create an entire new thread separate from the other one with the sole purpose of further discrediting the video and nullifying the NSX's apparent accomplishments on the video.

Like I said, I'm not going to disagree with what you are saying with regards to this video. However, I'm going to call you out on your modus operandi here on this forum and ask you what your true purpose is. I don't recall reading one single post in the last six months where you speak positively of the NSX. There might be one or two out there, but for the most part it seems like you relish the opportunity to talk about how much faster car X is than the NSX, or how car Y gets more looks from chicks than the NSX.

I like to visit this site because it is the biggest online site for a car that I literally fell in love with the first time I saw it back in 1991. This site is meant to be a celebration of all things NSX. I understand that we need to be realistic and call a spade a spade when it comes to the NSX versus other cars......however, this is not the place for an endless stream of negativity directed at the NSX, which is (honestly) about all I have seen from you Allan.

I see that you have sold your NSX. You certainly don't have to be an owner to be a member here, but I think that you should at least be an enthusiast. From what I've seen here on this site, I'd tend to think that you're not in that category, either. Now that you don't have your NSX to kick around anymore, maybe you ought to start frequenting Ferarrichat a bit more often......

Allan, I don't want to get into a shouting match with anyone, but why are you here if you don't have anything good to say about the car?

------------------
'91 Black/Ivory NSX
'89 Gray/Gray F-16C

 

[ALLAN]

I have alot of good things to say about the Nsx. It is a great car. I just posted my view on the video. There may have been mention about a home field advantage about the race, but why no mention of the 3 car compro?

 

[ALLAN]

Heres one Nsxtasy:
Quattroroute Magazine: 4/1993

Diablo Vt
12.29@119

Ill get you more.

 

[MAKO]

....and the latest NSX performance test by a British magazine says that the 3.2L car's 0-60 time is 5.7 seconds. So according to Ken we can't dismiss that published time and it's now official: 5.7 seconds to 60MPH from an $80,000 sports car.

I'm being sarcastic here, no offense to anyone intended, but my point is that one magazine test with one particular car means very little. If you've goint to be one of those bible thumper stat evangelists (except your bible is a car mag's test results) then I prefer seeing at least an average over multiple mag tests for a particular car. If memory serves, you've done that in the past in these pissing contests Ken and it's effective.

I personally believe there is no way (barring mechanical difficulties) that a 500HP VT with a 3,800lb. curb weight isn't toasting both the 13.2 second time you referenced from R&T, and the 400HP/3,800lb. curb weight Z8. However I also believe it's closer than Allan is making it appear, probably .2 to .3 seconds in the quarter mile, or approximately two car lengths in favor of the VT.

Lets see more published times, I need to brush up on the VT's specs.

 

[ALLAN]

Mako, i agree that magazine numbers arent very accurate. A few years ago, Lambo invited several magazines, Road and track, Car and driver, and Motor Trend to come and see what a Diablo Vt 6.0. This car is faster than a early Vt, but not by that much. The weight is approximately the same, but the 6.0 has a 58hp advantage. All the magazines recorded 1/4 miles in the 11.8- 12.2 range, with mph ranging from 120-122.0-100mph in the low 8 second range. All times achieved by factory drivers that knew what they were doing. When i have more time, ill find more articles on the early Vt, but rest assured, with the proper launch, it will easily bury a Z8 in the quarter, and on a roll, leave it for dead.

 

[scottjua]

Why in the holy hell does anyone give more than two hoots about F-ing drag numbers!? This is all I see these days..."this 1/4 time was .xx faster than that...so naturally this is the faster car" Enough to make one's head explode! Could it possibly be that DRAG, Accel, and straight line numbers mean little on CURVES and TURNS? Sure, I concede that on a track you must have a good balance of all those things, and the straight line power and accel speed come into play in their own rights, but come on.

Without having seen the video I will hazard the guess that the NSX-R was an easier car to drive faster regardless of it's horsepower, 1/4 mile time, and accel inefficiencies. Maybe that's why it was able to be driven faster on a ROAD course..ie=track. Maybe the Lambo's brute power was the reason it was able to pass the NSX-R all together. If the Lambo had had the right combination of balance, weight distribution, turn-in, balh blah blah...then the outcome would have been different. Would it have not? There are so many variables that it really is futile to try to understand why the "faster" lamborghini lost out on most of the battle. Regardless of home field advantage, sleeping drivers, 1/4 times, accel #s (in mag and on TV) a car has to have a bit more than brute power and fast straight line speeds. For instance one of the earlier Best Motoring videos show the 1st gen NSX-R keeping pace with an F40, nearly passing it at one point, but never quite able to come to grips with braking I believe. If the old car was able to outrun RUFs, 456 GT (what's the power to weight ratio there compared to Z8 and Lambo?), and others, then why is it so hard to fathom that the new NSX-R would be a faster car DESPITE it's lack of raw HP? It obviously outhandles most things out there...

Hopefully this viewpoint makes some sense...but I just can't stand all the talk about GD f-ing drag numbers all the time. There's more to a car's capabilities than the meager 10-13 seconds you can eek out of a straight stretch of road. That goes for ANY car.

/senseless rant

 

[effer]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
Ok Nsxtasy, ill get out my other 30 magazines and tell you what they say. Like i said, but you failed to answer my question in the other topic, "How many miles have you driven in either car? " I have driven thousands of miles in Diablos, and atleast a thousand miles in a Z8. Any Diablo, will smoke a Z8.

Real driving is often better than a thousand magazines...but we must be sure about the driver

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Not according to me - according to the testers at the car magazines. According to Car and Driver (4/01) the Z8 does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 13.0. According to Road & Track (12/94), the Lamborghini Diablo VT does 0-60 in 4.7 and the 1/4 in 13.2. You may not like it, ALLAN, but those are the published test results in magazines which anyone can look up.

Hi nsxtasy! Congrats for your 7000 post! I didn't had time to do it when it happened!

Cheers!

This is truly remarkable considering the quality of your writings contents...

Magazines do not reveal often theirs testing methods ( at least in a rigourous manner... )so we must take them with a grain of salt IMO...
I consider theirs results as anecdotal rather than scientifical...

Concerning your interposed mutual debate about Z8 and Lamborghini.

What can we say?

Magazines and pro testers are cheaters?
Allan is biased?

So many variables involved...

For sure IMO there is a serious lack of method ( and IMO intended for commercial and business reasons... ) and we can't conclude anything whitout knowing and understanding how did they achieve those results...and ideally there should be one testing protocol ( fully explained )

I think that the key to this problem is to use the so called large number law.

Is a Porsche C4 faster than an NSX?

Well, if we perform some hundreds of starts, and whatsoever specific tests with different drivers we should come with some good results...

But even if we succeed in answering those questions, this will only be of relative importance because when you are not competing or comparing with another car/driver all these cars give us tremendous thrills in the absolute.

I will write something about serious testing protocol...my physicist bias!

 

[NetViper]

Scott,

You have to remember, 1/4 mile is all Allan cares about because he doesn't drive on tracks.. So, in that world, the NSX is not the best car - or even close. I really believe if he had kept his NSX and slapped on a turbo, he would be very happy with it.

Allan, thanks for your comments on the video.. good to have another perspective, even if it makes the NSX-R not look as great.

 

[scottjua]

Net,

Yeah I agree...another perspective puts a different spin on the topic in question, but without taking all accounts into mind then it goes around in a circle.

all,

Sorry all for the above "f-ing", and "GD F-ing" stuff...I just get really really sick of cars like these reduced to drag numbers. What a waste. It's ok if the NSX-R isn't the quickest car out there but come on, at least have more to base a SUBJECTIVE bias on than 1/4 mile times and power/accel stats.

/rant#2

 

[scottjua]

I must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning

...no wait I actually DID! D'oh!

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
According to Car and Driver (4/01) the Z8 does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 13.0. According to Road & Track (12/94), the Lamborghini Diablo VT does 0-60 in 4.7 and the 1/4 in 13.2.

Originally posted by MAKO:
my point is that one magazine test with one particular car means very little. If you've goint to be one of those bible thumper stat evangelists (except your bible is a car mag's test results) then I prefer seeing at least an average over multiple mag tests for a particular car.

That’s an excellent point, MAKO. I agree that a single test is not as conclusive as a number of tests, performed by mainstream, respected media; in the U.S., this means the “big three” monthly magazines, supplemented by the AutoWeek weekly and the televised MotorWeek. Here are some other test numbers for the Z8:

4.5 0-60, 13.0 1/4 (Road & Track, 5/00)
4.5 0-60, 12.8 1/4 (Motor Trend, 9/02)

As you can see, these additional results are faster than the results I first posted from Car and Driver. Again, the point is that these are results for a car that ALLAN describes as “slow”.

Originally posted by MAKO:
Lets see more published times, I need to brush up on the VT's specs.

I could not find additional test results for the early Diablo VT from the mainstream U.S. media.

Originally posted by ALLAN:
Quattroroute Magazine

An Italian magazine that no one ever heard of, testing an IDM version of an Italian car is hardly relevant to a comparison of the versions we get in the States.

Originally posted by effer:
Magazines and pro testers are cheaters?
Allan is biased?

For magazines and pro testers to be “cheaters”, when you look at the general consensus on their results (as MAKO rightfully recommends), they would have to all agree to cheat in exactly the same way. Highly unlikely.

As far as ALLAN’s bias, those of us who have watched his posts since he has been on NSXprime have certainly formed our own opinions.

 

[ANYTIME]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
I have alot of good things to say about the Nsx.

And then.....

Originally posted by ALLAN:
Porsche trounced the Nsx, turning a 55.xx to the Nsx's 56.xx.

I thought you sold your NSX?

 

[ALLAN]

Im still waiting for Nsxtasy to answer the question of how many miles he's driven in both cars?

It is a well known fact that when U.S. magazines test many Lambos, they are privately owned cars, as Lambo is too small a company to provide factory testors here in the States. How many test cars do you think bmw put out? Again, in the Z8 vs Diablo arguement, Nsxtasy is dead wrong.

On the Nsx-r note, no doubt that it is a great overall car. Id love to have one, but the fact of the matter is that it is really Acuras version of a street race car, that is unobtainable to anyone of us here in the States. No doubt that a regular Nsx would have posted significantly slower times. It is true, that i base alot of my opinions on pure acceleration, as i, and most people here, will never see a racetrack. All i hoped to accomplish in this thread is to tell everyone, that the Best Motoring Video was all driver, and not vehicle skills. If the Lambo was driven with the same vigor as the Nsx, it would of left the Nsx for dead. Also, if you think the modified Gemballa Porsche couldnt beat those cars, including the Lambo, youve got another thing coming.

 

[ALLAN]

Also, since i am so biased, i was also trying to figure out why anyone who had watched the video didnt mention the 3 car compro, but went straight to trying to say that the Acura almost beat the Murcielago? If everyone here is so unbiased why wasnt it mentioned that the Nsx lost to a regular Porsche C4?

Yes, i have sold my Nsx.

 

[sabashioyaki]

That Gemballa Porsche recently held the fastest lap record at the Ring. It should have won the track comparo. I think the drivers were unfamiliar with some of the cars.

 

[8000RPM]

.



[This message has been edited by 8000RPM (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[8000RPM]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
I have alot of good things to say about the Nsx.

Who are you kidding?

Do you say these "good things" before or after you kick it?


[This message has been edited by 8000RPM (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[8000RPM]

Originally posted by Viper Driver:
However, I'm going to call you out on your modus operandi here on this forum and ask you what your true purpose is.

I am still waiting for the Lambo dude to respond to this call-out.

 

[trumperZ06]

NSX is a track car, not a dragster... The hi-pro V-6 turns 8000 rpm, with an alumium body mid engine chassis. Let the "dragsters" spout off abot 0 to 60 mph. and 1320 runs. Put the cars on a road course,,, then let em RIP. Pun intended DIABLO.

[This message has been edited by trumperZ06 (edited 12 December 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by MAKO:
I personally believe there is no way (barring mechanical difficulties) that a 500HP VT with a 3,800lb. curb weight isn't toasting both the 13.2 second time you referenced from R&T, and the 400HP/3,800lb. curb weight Z8. However I also believe it's closer than Allan is making it appear

It's also closer than ALLAN is making it appear if you state the curb weight of the Z8 correctly, at 3495 pounds.

Originally posted by ALLAN:
It is a well known fact that when U.S. magazines test many Lambos, they are privately owned cars

So, let's see... are you saying this to claim that a privately-owned Lambo shouldn't perform as well as one supplied by the manufacturer?

Or are you just trying to prove my point that all we hear from you are excuses?

 

[fangtl]

Classic

Scroll to the bottom of the page:

Mazda M1M - 95-110 seconds
Geo Metro - 125 seconds
Diablo SL - 132 seconds

Numbers, it's all relative...

However, my favorite quote from that page, "He came here expecting everyone to be impressed with himself and his car. Instead, he made a big fool of himself. Although his car has plenty of go, it was obvious that this guy was all show!" Apparently this applies to more than 1 Diablo owner...

 

[Tony Montoya]

That FF2 movie is getting to some people.