Best bang-for-the-buck ever in a large luxury sedan?

[dougpr]

I recently went car shopping for a nicer sedan for the times when an insanely fun 2 seater with 5 cubic feet of storage won't cut it. I already own a '95 Accord 5 speed 4cyl, but it's really hard to get behind the wheel of that car after driving the NSX. It offers nothing to me now and so I pile all the miles on my NSX as a DD.

I wanted something semi-new with Navigation and all the bells and whistles. I searched for Lexus ES, GS, LS; Infiniti G, M, Q; Nissan Altima, Maxima; Honda Accord and Acura TL. Most of the nicer new ones were still kinda pricey for what you got. But that's to be expected since these are cars from the Japanese top 3 and all have good resale value.

Then I looked at the Acura RL. The 96-04 model that followed the last Legend was priced insanely low and did not follow the trend of every other Honda in resale value.

I found a 2004 Acura RL (which was the model year with EVERYTHING standard with zero dealer options...Navigation, XM 10 speaker system, power everything, mirror defroster, 2 memory setup, rear seat vents, etc.) for $8,800. The car is clean and has 130k miles, but damn what depreciation on a car that stickered for $46,000 5 years ago.

This car is as large and as refined as the Lexus LS series. Yeah it's front wheel drive, yeah it's only a V-6, yeah it's only 4 speed auto...but I never imagined being able to find such luxury at such a low price.

What's the deal? The only thing I could figure is that by 2004, the 1996 design was dated. Also the car was a sales bomb. Also compared to the Lexus LS with V-8 power on rear wheels, it didn't compete in the powertrain department.

Anyway, I just wanted to share that with you. If you're looking for a used Japanese luxury sedan with tons of refinement, I don't know of any better bang-for-the-buck than locating a 2004 RL. (You could locate an older one for even less, but then it's a search to see if all the features are there since they were "options" in previous years.)

The road is my patient. The NSX is the scalpel making precision cuts. The RL is the anesthesia with its soothing comfort. Getting behind the wheel of the RL places a smile on my face, but for different reasons than my NSX. I feel like I got the best of both worlds from Honda now. Honda's best precision street performance and Honda's best luxury.

Why did the resale value plummet on this car? Why are 2004 Accords and TL's still more expensive than 2004 RL's?

Doug
-----------
'95 NSX-T
'04 3.5 RL

 

[BATMANs]

.......Why did the resale value plummet on this car? Why are 2004 Accords and TL's still more expensive than 2004 RL's?

Doug
-----------
'95 NSX-T
'04 3.5 RL

No head room in the back.

Most people can't justify the extra $$$$ for AWD, which is the RL's and TL's cheif primary difference.

Heavier and 1 more set of axles to power, makes the RL get less MPGs than any of it's sedan line up.

I do like the car and had a chance to pick one up for $16k with 60k miles on it as a 4-seater. Silver and an '05.

But the GTO's European leather smell, more solid chassis, cult car status (like the NSX), 400HP and large aftermarket support made me chose the GTO even though the RL has alot to offer.

I tend to lean towards HP.

 

[ALSWEL]

I think I am beginning to understand you now Batmans. You need justification for everything that is you. You need approval. The FD, the GTO, ... etc. Etc. being so many other things you are combative over. I wouldn't dare mention them as I don't want to labeled. You need help.

 

[s14_tat]

2002-2005 Infiniti Q45 is a nice hidden gem. They can run low 14's all day and are V8 RWD. You can option them with electronic suspension, power rear sun shade, reclining and heated rear seats with sun shades on the rear side windows, active cruise control, height adjustable H.I.D. headlights and navi. You can have all this with less than 100K miles for less than 10K for a 2002 and 17-25K for a 2005 model.

I would take that over a P.O.S. RL anyday of the week, I am a Nissan guy at heart so I am a little biased.

 

[tosugrad]

130,000 miles drives the extra depreciation, is my guess

 

[bfrank1972]

E38 BMW 740i or iL. You can find 2000 model years with the 4.4L V8 with 70K miles for $10K in decent shape.

 

[skillz4587]

I'm kind of in the same boat as you were. I have a 2000 accord as my daily driver and have been looking for something else because I was also driving the NSX way too much. My main hesitation is the Accord still works and although it may not bring as much excitement as the NSX, I like the piece of mind knowing I can take it on a 4 hour road trip without having to worry about getting stuck in the middle of now were. I have the same feeling with the NSX but lack of trunk space and me efforts for trying to keep the mileage reasonable prevents me from taking the NSX on long road trips. I have actually been keeping an eye on the BMW 850 and despite the maintenance cost, repair bill, and reliability issues; I just can't get this car out of my head. Hope I am not getting off topic because although it’s not a large luxury sedan, I do consider it a good bang for the buck price wise (definitely not a bargain maintenance wise).

By the way, I have a friend that has the RL (don’t remember the year but I know its 2000+), he got it about the same time that I got the NSX and he loves it. His only complaint is the tires are expensive to replace.

 

[Aaron94T]

Why did the resale value plummet on this car? Why are 2004 Accords and TL's still more expensive than 2004 RL's?

Doug
-----------
'95 NSX-T
'04 3.5 RL

You can't compare the 04 TL to the 04 RL as they are different generations. 2004 was the first year of the very attractive TL and 2005 was the first year of the then new RL. If you want better comps you have to compare a 04 RL to an 03 TL. At the same time compare an 04 TL to an 05 RL as they are more inline. The RL did not sell very well and because of this and their low cost I was looking at getting one. However the bad gas mileage stopped me, and the newer ones are no better due to AWD. Afte sitting in an 04-08 TL versus 05-08 RL there really is not much need to "upgrade" to the RL. The TL has all the feartures of the RL less AWD. Which actually helps gas mileage. The biggest kicker is the RL is barely bigger than the TL which makes no sense to me. Also at 130k miles averything is going to be cheap.

 

[ediddynsx]

I agree that any 04 plus TL and up are great cars for the money.....

I am looking to buy another DD so I'll be watching the prices.

 

[Moses]

Hyundai Genesis:biggrin:

 

[ediddynsx]

Hyundai Genesis:biggrin:

 

[Gofastguy]

FWIW...We have an 05 TL and love it. Particulary the sound system and the bluetooth are really cool too. It was a "Certified" used model and came with a super, extended warranty the others did not come with. We drove a Lexus ES 330 (or 350 can't remeber), and a Mercedes C class, all were 05's and went with the TL. It felt lighter and more responsive. The others felt somewhat floaty in comparison. Could have been the tires. The TL has low profile Michelins that kinda sport things up a bit. Also, we like the clean, sharper lines...White with tan and wood interior...nice!

 

[Cozmo]

I'm leaning toward a G35 myself. 6 speed Coupe.

 

[sahtt]

I'm a sucker for the LS. I'll have the new ls460 (sooner or) later. "Price is what you pay, value is what you get."

I had a 10+ year old LS that drove and sounded in every way like a new car, even when I sold it with 132k miles. It was the first automatic car I ever bought after researching that it had the durable drive train of arguably any luxury car (almost any car) ever constructed.

 

[sicarius82]

What about the first gen TSX? Good gas saver and really appealing looks. Nice comfortable interior





P.S. 1000 POSTS!!!

 

[steveny]

I don't know the model but Hyundai is making a luxury car that looks VERY nice from the photos I have seen.

 

[sicarius82]

I don't know the model but Hyundai is making a luxury car that looks VERY nice from the photos I have seen.

i think it's the Equus.

 

[tosugrad]

I don't know the model but Hyundai is making a luxury car that looks VERY nice from the photos I have seen.

Its the Genesis. My father in law has one and its VERY nice.

I think they are coming out with an S class / 7 series competitor next.

 

[rossii]

The VW Phaeton..........these cars retailed at btwn $70K to $100K for W12. It uses the same platform as the Bentley Contiental/Flying Spur and is actually more exclusive than big brother.........This car was built with luxury in mind and built like a tank. You can buy the V8's for $20 to $30k with decent mileage.....years built 2004-2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm2swohEtYM

Plus they look good with the right stance........

 

[pvmike]

E38 BMW 740i or iL. You can find 2000 model years with the 4.4L V8 with 70K miles for $10K in decent shape.

They're cheap because the cooling system is poorly designed and often causes problems. It's a problem for both the E39 540 and E38 740.

My vote goes for an '05+ RL. A great car in a ho hum package.

 

[steveny]

They're cheap because the cooling system is poorly designed and often causes problems. It's a problem for both the E39 540 and E38 740.

I know where there are two of them right now. Both sitting and not on the road because of cooling system problems. BIL has one a tenant has the other.
My BIL parked his right after putting a ~800.00 alternator in it.

 

[Hapa88]

I second the VW Phaeton and the Hyundai Genesis as best bang for the buck . .

VW Phaeton:

Genesis

 

[SilverStone05]

Lexus LS.

The Genesis looks good on paper - and in person, but i've never owned one/driven one.

 

[dougpr]

I like this discussion. I was avoiding European cars in general because of their reliability and high cost of maintenance. The Genesis is a very nice car, but it's still new and there hasn't been enough sold to produce a very good used car market. Also, my budget was a nice luxury car for under $10k. The Genesis is something I may look into for the future, since I fully expect typical Hyundai resale value.

I guess I didn't look close enough at the 02-06 Q45. Especially considering it has the same fuel economy as the RL's FWD V-6 with its RWD V-8 while producing over 100hp and torque more than the RL. The prices I've seen for the 2002 is around the 10k mark.

Since my RL was being sold for KBB and edmunds "trade-in" price by someone selling it for a friend that left the state, maybe I can turn it around and make a couple thousand profit and get the Q45. Also since it was an individual and not a dealership, I was able to avoid the sales tax by registering it in my home state of Florida (residents that are military living out of state gets tax free).

The price being $4k less than the retail used price is what prompted me to jump on the RL. It's still a beautiful car and my ONLY complaint about it is the V-8 fuel consumption with V-6 power. If I can actually get V-8 performance for the same fuel consumption with equal luxury, that's a win in my book.

My only concern with the Q45 is the reliability. I've seen reports of some of them burning through oil (1.5-2.0 quarts per 2,500 miles is one report on Edmunds.) Many 2002's needed engine replacements by the dealer.

You can't compare the 04 TL to the 04 RL as they are different generations. 2004 was the first year of the very attractive TL and 2005 was the first year of the then new RL. If you want better comps you have to compare a 04 RL to an 03 TL. At the same time compare an 04 TL to an 05 RL as they are more inline. The RL did not sell very well and because of this and their low cost I was looking at getting one. However the bad gas mileage stopped me, and the newer ones are no better due to AWD. Afte sitting in an 04-08 TL versus 05-08 RL there really is not much need to "upgrade" to the RL. The TL has all the feartures of the RL less AWD. Which actually helps gas mileage. The biggest kicker is the RL is barely bigger than the TL which makes no sense to me. Also at 130k miles averything is going to be cheap.

You're right, I should have compared it to the previous TL. Doing a quick comparison on San Diego and LA's craigslist shows the 2002 TL anywhere from $7k-10k. The 2002 Accord which is a previous model from '97-02 shows prices from 6k-8k. Not to mention that the 2002 TL wasn't a very good car. It had a defective 5 speed transmission that continually needed to be replaced. Honda had to extend the warranty on the car to prevent a lot of pissed off owners.

Anyway, I still feel like $8,800 for a 2004 car of this luxury was a good deal.

 

[s14_tat]

For more information on the Q45 you can go to nicoclub.com and look under the F50 ( chassis code )Q45 section. They are proven to be pretty reiable but repairs are expensive such as the electronic suspension. The F50 Q45 has everything I ever wanted in a luxury car and I was close to pulling the trigger on buying one but someone beat me to that one and I really have no need for 3 cars ( I live alone )