Automatics: NSX AT vs. 911 Tiptronic

[pentoman]

Hi all,

New here but long time NSX admirer.

I drove one of the first real sports cars I've ever properly driven recently, a 2000 (996) 911 Carrera.

I'll spare the details but I thought it was great.. great feedback & communication, a little nervousness at speed but maybe because it gained speed so quickly you didn't realise how fast you were going..

Anyway, I can't afford one but can afford an NSX.


The Porsche was a tiptronic (tiptronic S?) without buttons on the wheel for changing. As far as these autos go, it was good, lacking only the fun of operating a clutch and lever yourself. But I guess with the bonus that, at the end of the day it's a nice simple automatic which has its pluses.


So what's the NSX auto like compared to this? Because if it's as good as the Porsche I could probably live with one. Can you select the gears yourself (either with buttons/lever/paddles or 'on the stick' like an old Mercedes)?

Or is it mainly a 'leave it in 'D'' car? I realise it lacks torque next to the 996 which might be a problem, and probably lacks the computer-controled-gearchange-maps which I don't really care much for anyway.


I drove a 1990 Prelude auto once and, well, I don't want one like that. However one that drives like a BMW/Mercedes/Porsche auto would be fine.

thanks in advance

Russell

 

[RyRy210]

Only '95+ NSXs will have the tiptronic style shifting (it has a lever by the steering column). However, NSXs equipped with automatics only have 252hp.

 

[CerberusM5]

Slow.

Car and Driver tested a SportShift NSX and here are the times:

0 to 60: 5.8 sec
0 to 100: 14.7
0 to 150: 71.6
1/4 mile: 14.4 @ 99
Top Speed: 154 (drag limited)

A Tip 996 will easily walk away from the NSX AT.

Go with a 5 speed NSX instead.

 

[Da Hapa]

No offense intended to anyone but...

Driving an Automatic sports car (esp. one as unbelievable as the NSX) with an automatic transmission is like dating Christie Brinkley while living in a plastic bubble.

What's the point?

Driving a good MT (like the one in the NSX) is, IMO, one of the great joys in driving a truly awesome cars. I just can't believe that you'd truly be able to appreciate the car without driving a MT.

(Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone and I know that there are some realities (like living in San Francisco) which make MT ownership very, very hard but I honestly feel an auto on the NSX is like cutting the legs off a champion racehorse).

 

[CerberusM5]

No offense intended to anyone but...

Driving an Automatic sports car (esp. one as unbelievable as the NSX) with an automatic transmission is like dating Christie Brinkley while living in a plastic bubble.

What's the point?

Driving a good MT (like the one in the NSX) is, IMO, one of the great joys in driving a truly awesome cars. I just can't believe that you'd truly be able to appreciate the car without driving a MT.

(Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone and I know that there are some realities (like living in San Francisco) which make MT ownership very, very hard but I honestly feel an auto on the NSX is like cutting the legs off a champion racehorse).

Agreed.

I love racing into a corner and matching revs while downshifting and banging off 8k redline shifts. The manual transmission in the NSX is fantastic. It is the best gearbox I have ever owned. I think the only better gearbox I have experienced is the S2000. The NSX's manual transmission is a gem to experience.

 

[AU_NSX]

No offense intended to anyone but...

Driving an Automatic sports car (esp. one as unbelievable as the NSX) with an automatic transmission is like dating Christie Brinkley while living in a plastic bubble.

What's the point?

Driving a good MT (like the one in the NSX) is, IMO, one of the great joys in driving a truly awesome cars. I just can't believe that you'd truly be able to appreciate the car without driving a MT.

(Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone and I know that there are some realities (like living in San Francisco) which make MT ownership very, very hard but I honestly feel an auto on the NSX is like cutting the legs off a champion racehorse).

Totally agree!... I said this in another post but it looked relavent here as well ...

Personally I think buying a handbuilt supercar with design input from Ayrton Senna... in automatic with a de-tuned motor loosing some 40hp and it is not an F1 style gearbox either!

I think you may as well start showering with a raincoat!!!

The manual gearbox in the NSX is quite simply, the best in the world! Gordon Murray used it as the benchmark to achieve with the Mclaren F1.

Anyone driving an automatic NSX is missing out on the whole NSX experience IMHO.

But like I said... Personal preference...

 

[pentoman]

I agree, of course, with all of you and thanks for your input. I would of course prefer the manual too.

However noone has answered the question, is the automatic gearbox any good? This may be useful information to have for anyone who cannot use their left leg but still wants a sports car (I don't have this problem but some may).

Is the Porsche the only choice for them?


Russell

 

[LJSB]

I love the Porsche Triptronic.
Shift points and patterns adjust to the driver and are stored in memory.(I think up to 5?).
It's not at all like the AT's found in American cars or any other that I have driven so far.
I prefer a MT but Porsche's Triptronic is brilliant piece of engineering. Try one and put it through it's paces and you'll see what I mean.
I have never driven a AT NSX.

 

[nsxtasy]

I would of course prefer the manual too.

Then that's what you should get.

However noone has answered the question, is the automatic gearbox any good? This may be useful information to have for anyone who cannot use their left leg but still wants a sports car (I don't have this problem but some may).

The NSX with an automatic transmission is just fine for those who prefer an automatic transmission (for all kinds of reasons). The Sportshift, introduced on the NSX in '95, allows the same up/down gear selection as the Porsche Tiptronic, but even the conventional automatic on the '91-94 NSX is just fine - again, for those who prefer an automatic.

Frankly, I think those who attack and insult those who want an automatic are misguided. Most folks realize that most cars equipped with automatics are slower than their manual-equipped equivalents, but they decide that an automatic fits their needs better anyway. So what? They can enjoy their automatic NSX (and its handling, and styling, and reliability, etc) just as much as any owner of a manual NSX.

If you want a manual, get a manual. If you want an automatic, get an automatic. And whatever you get, enjoy it!

 

[Da Hapa]

Frankly, I think those who attack and insult those who want an automatic are misguided.

I don't think anyone was attacking or insulting anyone, do you? For my part, I was attempting to be funny while pointing out that the manual tranny in this fine car is one of the true joys of driving the car.

 

[NetViper]

I sure would be nice if Acura put a 6-speed auto into the 2002+ NSXs. The old 4-speed is dated. I bet the car would be pretty sweet. Paddle shifters on the auto would make a lot of sense too.

I personally would not own an auto, by my friend has one here and loves it. He drives it everywhere, never worries about shifting in crappy traffic etc. etc. It is a really nice car. He also does very well on the track.

 

[AU_NSX]

Frankly, I think those who attack and insult those who want an automatic are misguided.

My comments on the NSX's Automatic Transmission were not intended to attack or insult anyone and if they did I apologise as that was not my intent.

I was expressing a personal preference and opinion in favour of the manual because I have driven the NSX's automatic and the sportshift automatic.

In my opinion, the Porsche system is superior.

pentoman,
The NSX auto is very much a conventional automatic from 91-94. the sportshift introduced in '95 is only slightly better. However, both are only 4 speed and the porsche is 5sp. As pbassjo said the Porsche tiptronic is a "brilliant piece of engineering" with a "learning" ECU monitoring lateral G's, fore/aft acceleration, pedal pressure even how fast you lift off the accelerator to anticipate if you are approaching a corner or are in a corner as to whether it should hold the gear or change gear... It is the most amazing of automatic gearboxes and is far superior to the NSX's self shifter. There really is no comparison.

After driving the Porsche Tiptronic, I was disappointed with the NSX Auto. The NSX auto transmission looks and feels as if it had come straight out of a Legend or Prelude (not that that is bad). I found that the NSX auto will not reach the reduced redline unless it is manually held in the gear (it would shift up 500-800 RPM short of the 7000 (from memory) Redline.

It lacks the sporty feel, sophistication and electronic wizardry of the Porsche Tiptronic.

However the NSX manual, in my opinion, is superior to the Porsche manual. The shift is shorter and more direct, and there is little to no chance of missing a change in the NSX or selecting a wrong gear...

 

[0ctan3]

I know that there are some realities (like living in San Francisco) which make MT ownership very, very hard....

says who?!? no big deal here. :biggrin:

 

[nsxtasy]

I found that the NSX auto will not reach the reduced redline unless it is manually held in the gear (it would shift up 500-800 RPM short of the 7000 (from memory) Redline.

The redline in the automatic is 7500 RPM. When shifting automatically, the NSX Sportshift automatic will shift within 100 or so RPM of redline if the accelerator is floored.

Sounds to me like you didn't like it because you just weren't driving it hard enough.

 

[AU_NSX]

The redline in the automatic is 7500 RPM.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Ken... It was a while ago for me.

Sounds to me like you didn't like it because you just weren't driving it hard enough.

:wink: Yes could be... It wasn't my car... I thought I did have the car floored though...

The other thing as well is sometimes you have a pre-conceived idea or should I say prejudice about things... Mine is automatics... I just like my cars to do what I say and not vice versa!

So it is possible I didn't like it even before I got into it because it was an automatic...

But the Porsche tiptronic on the other hand was a real surprise... I actually posted faster lap times with the tiptronic than the manual. I suppose I was able to concentrate on the lines more and not having to worry about what gear to be in at what point etc...

Although at the end of the day as good as the Porsche Tiptronic gearbox was I would still opt for a manual...

 

[NSXAU]

Pentoman
as a recent new owner of an NSX and an AT 93, here are my impressions..
as an auto ... the gear changes throttling up are strong and crisp, pulling back from 4th to 3rd gives plenty of mumbo when req'd for motorway stuff if needed..at lower speed going to 2nd gives plenty of range and power in the tighter twisty stuff if req'd... unlike some ATs the NSX AT is not so keen to change to a higher gear straight away...I didn't get to drive the later year models with paddles..but I'm sure that would be more fun...ideally if the AT was like say the X5 style 5 spd steptronic with the options of clutchless manual, sport or just auto ..that would be the ideal..and if it were 5 speed as well...
Regards
David

 

[pentoman]

Just to say..

Thanks for the replies, got just the information I wanted. It is a shame it's not a little more high tech and lacks 5 (these days 6 (BMW/Audi/VW) & 7 (Mercedes) are the norm at the high end) gears, particularly since it's not a terribly torquey engine, however I also know now it's not too bad to specifically avoid either.

Keeps me armed with a little bit more information for when I come to make a purchase.

thanks again

Russell

 

[brahtw8]

Don't buy into the paddle shifting automatic hype.

A good automatic has the ability to kick down as many gears as possible with the throttle and to hold the gear to redline when at WOT or close thereto. That is all you need in an automatic. The rest is superfluous, IMHO.

The paddles and the 'sport-shift' levers are rarely if ever used in the real world.

I have always owned exclusively manual transmission cars, but when I am stuck in an automatic loaner or rental I never bother with sport shift other than a few times at the beginning for 'fun' until I confirm it is not.

 

[wilsonp]

The paddles and the 'sport-shift' levers are rarely if ever used in the real world.

I have always owned exclusively manual transmission cars, but when I am stuck in an automatic loaner or rental I never bother with sport shift other than a few times at the beginning for 'fun' until I confirm it is not.

I don't agree - I think it depends on the automatic. I want to hold lower gears when I'm pulling out from a stop and the NSX doesn't do that very well. Mine also won't kick down to 1st once I am going over 15 or 20. My MR-2 held the lower gears when pulling out and kicked down. My Eclipse GT never did, and I used the sportshift mode to hold low until I was straight.

I manually shift the NSX when I'm in a hurry

 

[brahtw8]

I don't agree - I think it depends on the automatic. I want to hold lower gears when I'm pulling out from a stop and the NSX doesn't do that very well. Mine also won't kick down to 1st once I am going over 15 or 20. My MR-2 held the lower gears when pulling out and kicked down. My Eclipse GT never did, and I used the sportshift mode to hold low until I was straight.

I manually shift the NSX when I'm in a hurry

Why is that you think we don't agree? You chose not to quote the part of my post that described a vision of an automatic transmission that is identical to your own, i.e. how the only thing a person needs in an automatic is the ability to hold lower gears to redline and to kick down as far as the gearing allows.

A properly designed and programmed automatic can do this with throttle input only. I did not say or imply that the NSX automatic does this well, only that IN GENERAL you don't need paddle shifters to have an automatic that holds the gear to redline and kicks down as far as possible. :smile:

 

[slashmatt]

I drive a manual NSX with a "heavy" clutch every single day. I have *never* been driving in traffic wishing that my car was an automatic, ever. I've driven from west houston to the galleria and back probably 30 times in the NSX during Christmas traffic, and never thought an auto would make my life easier. I'll sit there smoking a cigarette (though I'm trying to quit), drinking coffee, talking on the phone, adjusting my iPod, and shifting with absolutely zero problems. On a long distance trip, you can add playing with my dog and eating lunch. I'm hoping that someone finds this humorous because it is kinda funny, but, more, I'm trying to save someone the hassle of living with an automatic becuase it's too "inconvenient" to drive a manual transmission.

Nope, the only good reason to get an auto is if its selector is column mounted and you've got a hot date. :wink:

 

[RyRy210]

I live up on a hill, and it gets annoying with a manual, especially when a person pulls up extremely close to me on a steep hill when I'm stopped. I've had an automatic NSX before, and I personally prefer automatic cars. However, 290hp versus 252hp is also a difference that I can't ignore. Hence which is why I own a manual. If the automatic version did not have a detuned C30A engine I might reconsider.