Autocrossing In-Car Videos

[Midnight_Raven]

Hey guys. I have some in-car video of my past couple of autocrosses which I think maybe this forum section would be the more appropriate place to put it in. I'm still learning but I think for my first year out there I'm off to a good start. I apologize for the music use in the last two videos but I forgot to turn the microphone on so I had no audio for my runs that day. Either way do you guys see any glaring rookie mistakes I'm doing in my runs?

The only thing I can think of is maybe I'm still doing too many mid turn corrections with the steering wheel instead of maybe using the throttle to control the angle but then again maybe at some point it's better to just make those small steering adjustments mid corner. Really I don't know that is why I'm asking you guys for some guidance lol.

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[jaja]

I'd suggest 2 things.

1) You're basically in 2nd gear for your whole run. Since you're not using your left foot, put it to use with some left foot breaking. Tiny adjustments can be made with ol' lefty when the other one is focused on the throttle. You'll spend more time doing gas, brake. Vs. gas, hover, brake. It might sound minimal, but try it, you might surprise youself.

2) Use 1st gear. Looks like you are never above 5K rpm in 2nd. Maybe 1st is fitting. I'd have to double check the ratios, but 1st gear might actually be useable at those low speeds. That way you'll be in the powerband.

On a side note. I was keeping an eye on your hands, and you do a good job keeping 'em at 9-3. In autoX it can be tough, with such tight corners, and the NSX's long rack.

I'm a rookie myself, so maybe some vets. can dismiss/approve my suggestions.

Love the camera/audio.

Cheers,

Lucas

 

[Midnight_Raven]

I'd suggest 2 things.

1) You're basically in 2nd gear for your whole run. Since you're not using your left foot, put it to use with some left foot breaking. Tiny adjustments can be made with ol' lefty when the other one is focused on the throttle. You'll spend more time doing gas, brake. Vs. gas, hover, brake. It might sound minimal, but try it, you might surprise youself.

2) Use 1st gear. Looks like you are never above 5K rpm in 2nd. Maybe 1st is fitting. I'd have to double check the ratios, but 1st gear might actually be useable at those low speeds. That way you'll be in the powerband.

On a side note. I was keeping an eye on your hands, and you do a good job keeping 'em at 9-3. In autoX it can be tough, with such tight corners, and the NSX's long rack.

I'm a rookie myself, so maybe some vets. can dismiss/approve my suggestions.

Love the camera/audio.

Cheers,

Lucas

Thanks for the input Lucas.

I agree with your 2nd suggestion. I've noticed this myself and I think it's a mental thing. I'm not used to reving it that high so when I hear it at 6K I'm like okay time to shift now lol. I need to brake the habit and use that upper 2K in my rev range. Reviewing the videos it seems like I don't go past 6K in 2nd gear which I think would be close to 8K in 1st. So maybe I'll try it out next time I go autocrossing and see what happens.

Yeah I hope some more of the veteran drivers will chime in. My ears are all open for criticism/input.

 

[docjohn]

there is no magic for auto-x.Each car is constrained by its design....ie wheelbase,tire size,suspension setup.ect.....but from my days of doing this, often my smoothest and slowest seeming run to me was the quickest...also like at the track you can only ask so much from the tires.The basics of weight transfer under accel and decel can be controlled to a point to help the car turn and your throttle control needs to be excellent to maintain a steady state in the faster transitions.the nsx pushes and you need to use lift and sometimes light brake taps to get the car to turn...

 

[vivanshah]

Great videos!

I'm not 100% sure as it's a bit hard to tell based on the camera view, but it looks like you might be leaving a few feet between you and the cones at times. I found it really useful to mount an external camera as well to give me a better sense of the external dimensions of the car I was driving.

 

[Coz]

That is so cool....
I suck at Autocross, I always get lost.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

Thanks for the input guys.

Vivanshah,

I noticed this when I was comparing a video of friend that drove my car for one run who has more experience than me; they run much tighter lines than I am so I guess I need to try to get closer to the cones to improve my time.

Doc,

Yeah I kind of noticed that sometimes I need to lift to shift the weight onto the front tires to get the front to turn in quicker. I guess when I feel ready to try it I'll do some left foot braking which might help with that.

Coz,

I think I would get lost too if I ran the usual auto-x setup that involves running in a small parking lot. Our area is kind of lucky we have an old airforce base that we can use for this which lets us get good speeds and makes the course less complicated.

 

[dquarasr2]

Nice job!

- Unfortunately, the way NSXs are geared, for autocross, it always feels as though you're in the wrong gear. Too fast for first, too slow for second. Using second gear isn't necessarily a bad thing. IN GENERAL, you're better off in the higher gear if it's questionable whether you should be in a lower gear. The additional throttle response in a lower gear can actually make it more difficult to control. If you do use first gear in slower maneuvers, be careful to not overwhelm the rear tires as it is easier to do in the lower gear, especially when in VTEC mode.
- Eyes up. One of the hardest things to do at an autocross is to be "ahead" of the course. There were a few spots where you were initiating your turns just a few feet late, and had to use fast hands, which would contribute to understeer on turn-in. Try to be in a position to move your turn-in point back (not your apex), and use slower hands. Eyes way ahead of the course really helps. Hard to do at an autocross when things are coming at you so fast. One of the larger challenges of autocrossing.
- Ditto on getting closer to the cones. Obviously too close = 2 second penalty. :biggrin:
- In the really tight turns where you need to turn the steering wheel a lot, try shuffle steering. I learned performance driving autocrossing, and learned shuffle steer, and when I went to the big tracks I had to unlearn it, but at autocross it's appropriate when you have to have your hands nearly crossed. Shuffle also gives you better leverage, but makes it a little bit harder to recover from an out-of-shape condition. You need to shuffle REALLY QUICKLY to recover from oversteer.
- When I went to Nationals, I watched and watched and watched. I was amazed at how the REALLY fast guys abandoned the traditional swing-wide and late apex in favor of cutting distance. Remember, the slower the turn the more you'll want to cut distance. And the adage "Late Apex . . . As Early As Possible." The less you swing wide the less turning angle you need, but as you probably know, it depends on what is following. You'll have to figure out with experience where to use a very late apex (long straight follows) vs where to use a cut-the-distance line. (Too bad I was only middle-of-the-pack at Nationals. Actually, I never was as good as I had hoped I could become. There are some Seriously Fast Drivers at the pointy end of the classes.)

Overall, nice job and way to represent! NSX isn't the best autocross car for ultimate times but still a hoot nonetheless!

 

[Midnight_Raven]

New Video of my first autocross after doing the 6 speed swap and the custom Bilstein K4 racing coilovers. Car felt great and was in a better rev range than before. Feels like it's improved my car a bunch.

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Added my fastest run. Mic died so audio was gone put some Initial D music in the background.

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[Black NSX F1]

New Video of my first autocross after doing the 6 speed swap and the custom Bilstein K4 racing coilovers. Car felt great and was in a better rev range than before. Feels like it's improved my car a bunch.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lmfQYHY5MkE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Added my fastest run. Mic died so audio was gone put some Initial D music in the background.

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I can't wait to try autocross for the first time. I know I'll suck at first. But who knows... Also COZ is right , I think I just might get lost because those cones are very hard to tell.

 

[docjohn]

with any auto-x you need to arrive early to walk the course.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

I can't wait to try autocross for the first time. I know I'll suck at first. But who knows... Also COZ is right , I think I just might get lost because those cones are very hard to tell.

I wouldn't worry about it to much Danny. The group we are running with usually lets us take a slow drive through or two of the course. Also like I mentioned earlier in the thread the autox in Devens the cones are spaced out pretty good so it's not too confusing.

 

[dquarasr2]

The secret to autocross, especially when first starting, is eye discipline. Learn that and you can take that with you to the track and will benefit you on the street.

You will find yourself watching the cones go by. You will have to constantly remind yourself to look ahead. If you take only one thing away from your first autocross event, it should be the habit of looking ahead.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

Took out the NSX this weekend for autox. Recorded this video. This time with audio

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[R13]

As something of an autocross veteran, I'll second what some others have said. Your hands are generally pretty well positioned, only ending up crossed-up or in the same place a scant few times (which just happens). It looks like you're pushing the wheel and not pulling it, which is good.

Line-wise, in a couple of the vids, you got a little behind on a couple of the slaloms, but still looked clean.

2nd gear is appropriate for all but a pin-cone hairpin turn. I toyed with using 1st when I first started autocrossing my NSX (previously an MR2), but after experimenting and soliciting advice from a couple of national champs, I figured out 2nd gear is the way to go (unless it's a stupid-fast course and you need 3rd). NSX is not S2K, it has some torque.

If you want to compare notes, this was me, on a much smaller course a few years ago (street tires USDM 5speed, excuse the cheese at the end, it's my friend's editing )

 

[Midnight_Raven]

Thanks R13. Yeah I think I've noticed that in some of the slaloms I slow down a little too much or go in too hot so it messess up my way through the slaloms. Need to figure that out.

I actually went to another one on the 4th of July. I placed 3rd in the experienced street class. Placed behind the usual guys who are in front of me. Still about 2 seconds behind the top guys who are usually guys faster than me. I did discover something that I think I'm going to have to try to practice on. I had a dirty run which was actually .8 seconds faster and after reviewing it compared to my clean run I think it's just as you said in the slaloms I'm loosing time in my clean run vs my dirty run. Looks like I slowed down more than I should. I guess with time I'll learn to pick up time through there.

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[dquarasr2]

Thanks R13. Yeah I think I've noticed that in some of the slaloms I slow down a little too much or go in too hot so it messess up my way through the slaloms. Need to figure that out.

The trick to slaloms is to enter at the speed needed to maintain throughout the slalom. This assumes the cones are evenly spaced. You should step them off as you walk the course to ensure they don't tighten up or expand. Designers often do that so measure the intervals by pacing with your normal stride. Seat time!!

I'll quote very good autocrosser Andy Hollis: "attack the back". Here he means to think about positioning the car relative to the back side of the cone, not the front side. This reinforces turning the steering wheel early and helps prevent getting behind in a slalom.

And of course another trick to slaloms, as with all autocross maneuvers, is looking far through the slalom which also helps you stay ahead of it.

- - - Updated - - -

I just watched the video. That run looked really good! If I read your post correctly that had 3 cones but clean that up and it would be a great run.

 

[R13]

Yup, "attack the back" is where it's at. Took me a minute to translate that when I first heard it. Haphazard diagram below. Basically you want to have already turned in when you pass the cone vs. waiting until you get to the cone to turn in. If you can get yourself "behind" the first cone, then it allows you to be more aggressive the rest of the way through.

You actually did that fairly well in the last video you posted.

 

[docjohn]

It should be easy if you have ski raced...you are actually setting up for and initiating for the next pole/cone as you pass the near cone.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

Yeah I already try to do that as you noticed hehe. One of the good autoxer here told me I should be late apexing through the slaloms, which is basically what you guys are describing. It makes sense and maybe I need more seat time to know what speeds I can really transition through the cones and pick up time through there. I do feel at times that I'm still not certain where I should be braking.

I wish we had very experience NSX driver in the area to co drive with me at an autox event. That way I can see what I could be doing better vs what the limit of the car is. I don't think I'm maximizing the potential of the car in autox but then again I don't really know how far I am from the max potential either. It's similar to when I first did autox. I was nowhere near the traction limit of my tires but since I didn't know what the ability of the tire was I was just driving slow. Then I took a ride with someone who had the same tires and it opened up my eyes as to how much traction these tires had. You could say I learned by the "Monkey See Monkey Do" method lol.

Either way thanks for the tips guys. Hopefully I can go to a couple more autox soon and see if I can figure anything out.

 

[R13]

Yeah it's a constant learning experience really. Seat time is really the only solution....good thing that's fun.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I see a huge mistake I have been making. I never attack the back or late apex. I try to take the tightest line around the cones, the straightest, just kissing them. It's quite "smooth" but doesn't seem to be as fast. My experience of being smooth on the track is not translating to fast times at autox. I am fairly quick on the track, usually the or one of the quickest in my run group. Autox? different story.