Auto to Manual Conversion and Vehicle Value

[ntenseone]

So, after looking around, I didn't find this topic previously discussed, but I thought it valuable to find out what you all think.

I'm in search of a car at this time, and I really wasn't wanting an auto car, but it seems like the autos are taken care of pretty well most of the time, too. I drove one this past weekend and actually enjoyed the car quite well, to my surprise!

So here's the question...should I get an auto and decide later to swap it to a manual, considering its done correctly and everything is in order the way it should be, do you think it would help or hinder the overall value of the car, considering it would no longer be original?

I'm not one to back down from a challenge, and I'm plenty capable of doing this kind of work to the level of which any owner would want, so with that said, I'm not afraid of doing this swap, not to mention I would get to choose if I wanted a 5 speed or a 6 speed, as well as the components that go into it.

Just wanted to bounce the question off of you guys. I'm considering this car pretty heavily as it seems to have been cared for pretty well, and I really enjoyed the way of drove, althoughi never thought I'd say that about an auto. LOL.

 

[bngl3rt]

It is true that autos were not bought by the "typical" sports car owner and have therefore probably been modded less etc.

But remember you are getting the detuned 252hp engine in an auto so I'm not sure what would be involved in getting it back up to 270.

 

[Nukem]

Think you would save money just getting a manual instead of dealing with the conversion

 

[gdae]

I have an auto and have followed the conversion threads for awhile now. Swaps have been done, and it sounds simple in theory, but man, you're getting into every nook and cranny of the car. It's not just the tranny but the engine has been modified, you get into the electronics, the internal layout of the controls, even the instruments in the dash.
I love this specific car to death, but when I can't stand the auto any longer I'll just sell it and get the manual.

 

[s14_tat]

Don't do it!!!!

 

[Ric]

Dont do it. Sell the auto and buy the manual. Save the headache and you will be happier down the road.

 

[ntenseone]

I have an auto and have followed the conversion threads for awhile now. Swaps have been done, and it sounds simple in theory, but man, you're getting into every nook and cranny of the car. It's not just the tranny but the engine has been modified, you get into the electronics, the internal layout of the controls, even the instruments in the dash.
I love this specific car to death, but when I can't stand the auto any longer I'll just sell it and get the manual.

None of this is really all that much of a set back.

Here's the problem with a lot of peoples' perspective that haven't done this kind of thing before...they act like it would be a complete nightmare. I swapped a 90 model Integra from an auto to a manual, and if you take it step by step, it really isn't all that hard. So many people said it was so difficult to do that I should just sell the auto and by a manual, but it wasn't that bad. My car had a lot of sentimental value to me so selling it just to get into something else that had who only knows how many problems just wasn't worth it to me.

That being said, I think I'd be up to the challenge of swapping the NSX, but I'm curious if it was ruin the value or help it.

 

[gdae]

Well, I've never seen one of the tranny-swap cars sold, so I don't know. However, if I were in the market I wouldn't turn my nose up at a swapped car provided everything looked like it was done perfectly. In fact it might even be preferable, seeing as how auto tranny cars are less likely to have been "beaten up."
Now that you mention it, doing the swap itself could be fun, provided one has the know-how.

 

[rbilder]

If you love doing that sort of thing, working on cars and the challenge, then I would possibly do it for the fun of it.... similar to Shawn who loves saving and bringing NSX's back to life.

I'm guessing it is an older NSX so the AT would have the electronic power steering, a first.

For myself, it seems like it would be cheaper and much easier to just purchase a MT car.

It's hard to say what the resale value would be. I'm not sure why you would be too concerned with the resale value, since it seems to me, it would be more costly to purchase an AT car & convert it to a MT than it would to be to purchase a MT to begin with.

Some buyers are looking for the most original stock vehicle they can find, so any changes affect the resale value.

The AT engines are detuned, so I would think a potential buyer down the road would want to know the HP was that of the MT or more. Possibly add a SC while you are doing the conversion. :smile:

Personally I wouldn't do it. But if it is a challenge and something you love then consider it a labor of love.

Keep us posted.

 

[Chu_Viet]

I am curious, what's the difference between the auto motor vs the manual motor? What's detune for the auto? My NSX is an auto with the manual swap.

 

[Chu_Viet]

Well, I've never seen one of the tranny-swap cars sold, so I don't know. However, if I were in the market I wouldn't turn my nose up at a swapped car provided everything looked like it was done perfectly. In fact it might even be preferable, seeing as how auto tranny cars are less likely to have been "beaten up."
Now that you mention it, doing the swap itself could be fun, provided one has the know-how.

I bought a car with the swap

 

[usafdarkhorse]

I am curious, what's the difference between the auto motor vs the manual motor? What's detune for the auto? My NSX is an auto with the manual swap.

I believe it lies in the lower RPM limit in the auto vs manual's 8000RPM limit.

If you swap transmissions and run a manual ECU, you should be making 270hp @ 8000RPM with its VTEC threshold, but consult the FAQ for more info. I don't think there's any physical difference.

 

[ntenseone]

There IS a physical difference. The cams and valvesprings are different, giving the auto a bit lore low end torque, but hindering its high end power , which is why it has a lower redline.

The reason I feel like doing this is because I cannot find a white car for sale to save my life and there are 3 white autos that I know of currently and they're all in fantastic condition.

White is what I'm really after, and I think I'd rather swap an auto than paint a black car white. Seems like a better solution for me since I'm a technician and not a body guy.

 

[rbilder]

Ah, now I understand further.... GPW is popular and hard to find.

 

[Chu_Viet]

There IS a physical difference. The cams and valvesprings are different, giving the auto a bit lore low end torque, but hindering its high end power , which is why it has a lower redline.

The reason I feel like doing this is because I cannot find a white car for sale to save my life and there are 3 white autos that I know of currently and they're all in fantastic condition.

White is what I'm really after, and I think I'd rather swap an auto than paint a black car white. Seems like a better solution for me since I'm a technician and not a body guy.

so is the whole head is different? or its just the cams and valve springs that is needed to be changed to get the potential manual power?

so if you are doing this manual swap, what plans do you have for the engine?

 

[Nukem]

might as well do an engine swap too. If I was going to go throught the trouble of swapping the tranny/gauges/all the electronics involved, I would go ahead and swap engines too. No point in doing all the work and still be stuck with the detuned engine. Just saying.

 

[Chu_Viet]

might as well do an engine swap too. If I was going to go throught the trouble of swapping the tranny/gauges/all the electronics involved, I would go ahead and swap engines too. No point in doing all the work and still be stuck with the detuned engine. Just saying.

+1 i totally agree.. i'd go with the 3.2L 6speed.

and i'm also curious... does the vtec engage the same on the "detune" and the manual motor?

 

[ntenseone]

Who said I'd leave the engine alone? I'd have the whole assembly out of the car anyhow...it would make it that much easier to do cams and valvesprings at that point and I'd be at stock manual power just by doing that...or, it I was feelin froggy by that point I might just do a SoS stage 2 NA setup while I had it all out.

And yes, VTEC engages the same on both cars...I don't know about what rpm it engages on an auto, but I know that for the most part Honda sets up all of their VTEC engines to engage between 5800-6000rpm. I could be wrong with the C30, though.

 

[Sennansx81]

Just get a manual imo...

 

[Nukem]

>>should I get an auto and decide later to swap it to a manual, considering its done correctly and everything is in order the way it should be, do you think it would help or hinder the overall value of the car, considering it would no longer be original?

Once you do something that is not stock, you are relying on an individual prospective buyer's value of those changes, similar to any mod. I think a case can be made for doing an auto to manual conversion using all OEM parts and still having most buyers consider the impact of value to be relatively neutral, since it's still all OEM. I would think there could be additional value if the car had high miles at conversion, that the buyer would consider since some of the drive train parts would be newer.

Once you start modding it outside of OEM - it's like modding any stock car in terms of the value of those mods to a prospective buyer. I would think between the latter and the former there is some safe grey area in terms of resale such as JDM gearing which I think helps the 5 speeds, or like mentioned going 6speed and 3.2 although I don't know the particulars in all of that. Personally, I would not change an NA1 to an NA2 as I think the dollars to performance ROI (not resale ROI) at that point would be better in doing a 3.5 or a FI set-up and really going for it in terms of giving that chassis the additional 100-200hp it really wants.

I see nice automatics out there on occasion that sell slower and may be going for less money than manuals. If I was handy and could get a clean one for a lot less than I could a manual, I'd grab one and use it as a bed for transmission and engine/power upgrades. As it so happens, I did not see any going for a cheaper enough amount to justify the additional costs so I just got a 2nd manual transmission model to go ahead and play with.

Well I don't know how the rest of the market is, but I for one would look for another car. I would want to know did the previous owner do it or a qualified shop do it? If the owner did it there is know way to know how qualified he/she is. Are my reverse lights not going to work down the road cause of a jacked up wire connection or something worse.

To the OP if you buy the car do what you want its your car. Reccomendation create a build page take lots of pictures so if you do sell it you can show everything done.

 

[gdae]

Member Sweetchuck has a thread on here somewhere; he did a swap. If I remember right, he just bought a whole rear clip of a car and transferred the parts. The results looked good to me.
Here's an idea: you could buy a wrecked NSX as a parts donor.

 

[Aaron94T]

The reason I feel like doing this is because I cannot find a white car for sale to save my life and there are 3 white autos that I know of currently and they're all in fantastic condition.

White is what I'm really after, and I think I'd rather swap an auto than paint a black car white. Seems like a better solution for me since I'm a technician and not a body guy.

Now the truth comes out and that is a very good reason to want to do a swap. If you did not care about color and red or black worked for you then you would be crazy to think about a swap. In the Supra world 6-speed swaps are very common. The problem is the number of parts involved in a swap is high and cost adds up quick. It actually costs more to buy an auto and swap it versus paying the extra 5-7k for the manual. With that said, I am very picky about color so I would go for the swap in your case as white NSX's are amazing. I almost pulled the trigger on 2 but they were across the country and I could not find the time to fly out.

As for value, you will be getting the auto for notably cheaper than a manual so I would guess you might actually be increasing their value. The number of perspective owners that would consider a swapped car is greater than the number of perspective owners that would consider an auto, IMHO.

 

[Honcho]

Now the truth comes out and that is a very good reason to want to do a swap. If you did not care about color and red or black worked for you then you would be crazy to think about a swap. In the Supra world 6-speed swaps are very common. The problem is the number of parts involved in a swap is high and cost adds up quick. It actually costs more to buy an auto and swap it versus paying the extra 5-7k for the manual. With that said, I am very picky about color so I would go for the swap in your case as white NSX's are amazing. I almost pulled the trigger on 2 but they were across the country and I could not find the time to fly out.

As for value, you will be getting the auto for notably cheaper than a manual so I would guess you might actually be increasing their value. The number of perspective owners that would consider a swapped car is greater than the number of perspective owners that would consider an auto, IMHO.

I agree with Aaron, if you are dead set on color. It is a big project. You will need:

91-96 5-speed
91-96 Clutch Set
Clutch master and slave cylinder plus all lines/hoses
Clutch pedal assembly with swtich
Shifter stalk assembly plus all linkages
91-94 Manual ECU
91-01 Manual Gauge Cluster
91-96 Manual Camshafts

You will have to crack open the heads and replace the cams. You will also have to remove the interior of the car to run the clutch lines and install the pedals, switches, and shifter stalk. You may also have to change the ECU wire harness, but not sure. This is a big job. If I were you, I would spend the extra $$$ for the 6-speed, given all the work involved. It is the best trans for the NSX.

A properly swapped 6-speed Grand Prix White coupe will be worth a lot of money if it is kept in good condition and not riced out.